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Silent Oracle said:
...

As to the conflict of interest, I think it exists to an extent - but to be fair, DPR allows comments here from users - as does Amazon. ....
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dpreview is known for providing its readership with timely, detailed and credible camera reviews. Perceptions of conflicts of interest are part of the review business no different than those that provide expert reviews on other electronic products, cars, etc.

What misleads the consumer coming to this site are dpreviews 'first impressions' of the X10 (a production sample) which include:

"The X10 offers direct access to most key features and our early impressions are that it's mercifully free of the quirks and glitches that limited its big brother, the X100. However, as with any camera, the X10's success depends on its image quality and, while the EXR system is certainly clever, we'll want to shoot and test its performance in more detail before concluding how well it lives up to its potential."

Sure there is some orb discussion elsewhere on the site but after 3 months its high time for a credible review site to come clean on how well the X10 "lives up to its potential".
 
Stephen 06 said:
It is quite clear the DPR are not influenced by Amazon because they already highlighted that major ORB issue!! The camera is already seen in bad light by many in the public domain, and DPR has already contributed to that. They did it with side by side comparison shots of a competitor to that camera. They have already shown that camera and its major warts n all to the public. I don't see any influence.
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No one will ever convince me Fuji hadn't thoroughly tested the sample of the X10 before sending it out for evaluation - and on that basis DPR should do their review based on the cherry picked sample Fuji gave them.

Should Fuji come up with a fix - DPR could simply update their review at a later date.

After taking everything into consideration I think it's perfectly reasonable to question DPR's motive for holding back.

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Best regards,

Del
 
PAUL TILL said:
I was wondering if the reason dpreview is stalling on the full review of the X10 was because they are owned by Amazon.

If Amazon has 10,000 units sitting in their warehouse waiting to be sold, would they not instruct dpreview to hold off on their review knowing the various issues would damage sales?
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They don't have 10,000 units sitting in a warehouse, thats not how it works anymore, inventory is kept lean, is based on projected sales, which are based on current and past sales and the onus is on the suppliers to keep up with companies like Amazon's inventory needs on an ongoing basis.
PAUL TILL said:
Can a review site owned by a company that sells cameras and camera gear be trusted to give honest, unbiased opinions?
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Yes without a doubt. DPR is an independent unit under independent editorial control, Many conglomerates own media units of one sort or another and have to deal with similar conflict of interest issues all the time, this one is not a biggie IMHO

To link your questions back to your banning, I think DPR's comments to you about lightening up on the X10 were because a shedload of people complained to them about you. (I did not). I think DPR are very sensitive to the collective wishes of forum members and if enough are freaking out, they freak out.

Where DPR has a more difficult problem is when lots of forum members on 2 sides of an intransigent argument freak out. This was not the case in your case. From DPR's point of view you were pretty isolated and they simply reflected the collective by coming down on you. Thats how it looks to me.

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S100, S6500, S5, F300, F200, F70, F11, F31 (deceased), Z5, V10, D40, EX1
 
Wellington....the media does have known biases and it's pretty obvious by the way the relate the news that they do. I'm one who is extremely uncomfortable with this corporate ownership of media....yet another step closer to plutocracy :(

I refer you to the Fox-Monsanto controversy for one, there are lots of other examples of this. The media is becoming better thanks to consumer pressure (because we can find our own unbiased news sources online and the media gets severely criticized for its biases, thank goodness for the internet.)

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http://Alex_the_GREAT.photoshop.com
 
PAUL TILL said:
Sunshine_boy said:
PAUL TILL said:
If Amazon has 10,000 units sitting in their warehouse waiting to be sold, would they not instruct dpreview to hold off on their review knowing the various issues would damage sales?
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Thats not how inventory management works for any large retailer, its very sophisticated, computer driven, mostly automatic and requires the supplier to monitor it constantly as inventory is lept lean. The likes of Amazon and Tesco do not stock 10,000 of anything unless they expect them to sell within a short timeframe, ie days.
PAUL TILL said:
PAUL TILL said:
Amazon sells cameras of all types and brands under the sun, If a prospective customer is going to buy a cam, would it make much difference to Amazon which cam he/she chooses? There is profit margin in all sales.
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Yes but the X10 was/is in high demand and short supply. If they have used their huge buying power to acquire a large volume of X10's would they not want their sister company to hold off on a negative review?
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No, Amazon sell vast numbers of different items, the X10 barely registers as a blip and if it does, it may be because of unacceptable return levels rather than sales.

Anyway at the moment in the UK Amazon are showing 22 new in stock from 15 different retailers, which implies they themselves have at most 7 units available for sale today.
PAUL TILL said:
PAUL TILL said:
If I am put off by a review on the X10, ok I will not buy the X10 but I'll buy another cam (if I really need a cam), again from Amazon... So, I don't think the effect you describe can be that much influential as I don't think Amazon are so daft as to stock an excessive number of units for a new, untested product..
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Fair enough. Why did Amazon acquire dpreview.com?

Are they using their expertise with digital cameras to know what cameras to buy in stock ?
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No, Amazon stock what consumers demand and what suppliers offer. As for DPR, Amazon buy internet properties all the time, all the Internet giants do the same thing, they are constantly hoovering up successful niche outfits and the consumer focus of DPR has synergy for Amazon.
PAUL TILL said:
Paul.
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S100, S6500, S5, F300, F200, F70, F11, F31 (deceased), Z5, V10, D40, EX1
 
I've had a G series or two, and loved them. I think this camera looks right smart and will be a great tote along cam.
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alexisgreat said:
Wellington....the media does have known biases and it's pretty obvious by the way the relate the news that they do. I'm one who is extremely uncomfortable with this corporate ownership of media....yet another step closer to plutocracy :(
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I agree with you that the media has biases, even pure media outfits that are not part of larger conglomerates, such as News International, are biased.
alexisgreat said:
I refer you to the Fox-Monsanto controversy for one, there are lots of other examples of this. The media is becoming better thanks to consumer pressure (because we can find our own unbiased news sources online and the media gets severely criticized for its biases, thank goodness for the internet.)
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News International who own Fox are a pure media company not a conglomerate like say GE or even Amazon. I would argue that GE and Amazon's media assets are no more biased than News Internationals.
alexisgreat said:
--
http://Alex_the_GREAT.photoshop.com
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--
S100, S6500, S5, F300, F200, F70, F11, F31 (deceased), Z5, V10, D40, EX1
 
News Corp is pretty bad lol.

I like that we have choices on here, as well as on TV to make our own best judgments....the same goes for camera reviews and pretty much anything else. :) Making informed choices means having more than one source and listening to more than one voice, which helps deal with the bias issues.
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http://Alex_the_GREAT.photoshop.com
 
alexisgreat said:
News Corp is pretty bad lol.

I like that we have choices on here, as well as on TV to make our own best judgments....the same goes for camera reviews and pretty much anything else. :) Making informed choices means having more than one source and listening to more than one voice, which helps deal with the bias issues.
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Agreed 100%. In the old days when i wanted to buy a camera, I was lucky if I found an article about it in a magazine that was more than a list of the cameras specs. Otherwise I was 100% in the hands of a salesman in a store somewhere. I made purchase decisions with virtually no access to independent data.

Thanks to DPR, those bad old days are gone. I don't need to wait for Amateur Photographer's or even Simon's X10 review to find out whether the camera will work for me, I have made up my mind based on what users have posted and what bloggers have opined.

This is the brave new world and I love it.
alexisgreat said:
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http://Alex_the_GREAT.photoshop.com
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S100, S6500, S5, F300, F200, F70, F11, F31 (deceased), Z5, V10, D40, EX1
 
Yes, I remember those days too :( it made it especially difficult to buy something without using it first (especially if you bought online in the late 90s)...... now, with all the in depth reviews and user reports, it almost feels like you actually got to test out the camera yourself!

For example, without Carnaga's excellent IR photography, I would never have realized the HS20 was superior for IR; as good as the classic Coolpixes, and without others attempting to do IR with the Sony HX100V I wouldn't have known it was horrible for IR (much like most modern cameras.) This is the kind of stuff you'd have to "buy and try" yourself----- not very easy to do over the internet.

This doesn't even take into account the complicated science that is EXR that many reviewers dont even seem to understand (complicated only because Fuji makes it seem "mysterious")...... but we have a ton of user reports to make up the gap in knowledge :)
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http://Alex_the_GREAT.photoshop.com
 
As far as being a free contents site, DPR performs very respectably, if not the best in this field. They have get their funding somewhere, and I don't mind one bit if their funding source influence their content to a reasonable degree.

If you want a source that is totally free of influence to YOU, the YOU probably have pay for it out of your pocket.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/25457298@N04/sets/
 
Eigenmeat said:
I don't mind one bit if their funding source influence their content to a reasonable degree.
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What is reasonable to you and me may not be reasonable to someone else. Just ask the folks at News of the World.

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Apologies if my lack of photographic knowledge is catching.
 
Silent Oracle said:
Paul, I think that DPR could be waiting to see Fuju's response on the orb issue.

I don't know about you....but I have NEVER seen a really bad review from any website which reviews cameras on an ongoing basis. My opinion (not fact by any means) is that there is a certain understanding there - and basically one hand feeds the other. Without the camera company, the reviewers woulldn't have a job. They need one another, come what may.
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Luminous Landscape pounded the Contax Digital N camera relentlessly. Last camera Contax every made if I remember right.

The Leica M8 also go whacked pretty hard because of the IR filter fiasco.

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http://fujifilmimages.aminus3.com/
 
rattymouse said:
Member said:
I don't know about you....but I have NEVER seen a really bad review from any website which reviews cameras on an ongoing basis. My opinion (not fact by any means) is that there is a certain understanding there - and basically one hand feeds the other. Without the camera company, the reviewers woulldn't have a job. They need one another, come what may.
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Luminous Landscape pounded the Contax Digital N camera relentlessly. Last camera Contax every made if I remember right.

The Leica M8 also go whacked pretty hard because of the IR filter fiasco.
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Luminous Landscape isn't exactly a camera review website. It's more like M.R.'s personal blog that has sections for guest opiners and much is written from the standpoint of a medium and large format pro, although DSLRs are in abundance now as well. He also really panned Olympus's C-8080, widely recognized as one of the finer P&S cameras to make it into reviewer's hands. Unfortunately M.R.'s hands were too large for the 8080's buttons, so it wasn't enough to turn him into a Fujii fanboy. He has interesting insights at times but likes to play the role of camera curmudgeon.
 
Billx08 said:
rattymouse said:
Billx08 said:
I don't know about you....but I have NEVER seen a really bad review from any website which reviews cameras on an ongoing basis. My opinion (not fact by any means) is that there is a certain understanding there - and basically one hand feeds the other. Without the camera company, the reviewers woulldn't have a job. They need one another, come what may.
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Luminous Landscape pounded the Contax Digital N camera relentlessly. Last camera Contax every made if I remember right.

The Leica M8 also go whacked pretty hard because of the IR filter fiasco.
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Luminous Landscape isn't exactly a camera review website.
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No, but they pull a lot of readers, who pretty much treat LL as a review site.

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http://fujifilmimages.aminus3.com/
 
PAUL TILL said:
I was wondering if the reason dpreview is stalling on the full review of the X10 was because they are owned by Amazon.
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No
PAUL TILL said:
If Amazon has 10,000 units sitting in their warehouse waiting to be sold, would they not instruct dpreview to hold off on their review knowing the various issues would damage sales?
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No
PAUL TILL said:
Can a review site owned by a company that sells cameras and camera gear be trusted to give honest, unbiased opinions?
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Yes

We're not stalling, we're just slow. It's a busy time, we have priorities. The X10 review progresses.
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Simon Joinson, Editor
dpreview.com
 
... than to wrongly trust one camera on sale on Amazon.

The point is that if Amazon loses users' trust they lose a lot more than the sales of any one product.

And I have always found them the easiest retailer out there to accept returns if I don't feel satisfied with a purchase.

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/
 
... if you come here and don't find a review, where do you go next?

The forum.

And orbs are hardly a secret here.

Even though there are a few posters who wish they were.

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/
 
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