24mm equiv

polarizer

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Hello

I am looking for a compact system and considering either m43 with 12mm or Sony nex 5N with a legacy 16mm lens

Question: what 16mm legacy manual focus lenses should i look into to get 24mm equiv focal length? I know that sony has a 16mm with AF but my understanding is that it has soft edges - any legacy lenses with good contrast and character you recommend?

thanks for your help
 
Lots of people are very happy with the Sony 16mm, plus you can get an ultra-wide & fisheye adapter for it. It's obviously auto-focus and designed for the system. You can do a lot worse.

As for an alternative... Well there is a Voigtlander 15mm I think, and a 12mm. There is a Zenitar fullframe fisheye at 16mm. All have their 'issues' with regard to either distortion, price size etc. The Sony is tiny. light and just works great. For most people the two kit lenses make a killer package.

Les

--
"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five."
Groucho Marx

http://www.leshall.com
 
I'm looking at the Nex 5N and I think that the double lens kit looks like a great option as Les Hall said - you basically get the Sony 16mm for less than half price. From what I've read, it's not a bad lens for that price. The only problem, here in Europe at any rate, is that it seems largely sold out and most places are waiting for stock to come in (Amazon UK says it's a 1 to 3 month delivery time).

So I'm thinking about experimenting with a legacy lens - I haven't tried any thing like that in the past, but I like the idea of forcing myself to use manual focus and getting back to basics. So if anyone has any other suggestions for an inexpensive second hand lens as per the OP, I'd be really glad to hear them - I really don't want to spend more than about EUR 100 / USD 130 as it's my time to experiment and find out what's fun and what works.

By the way, this is my first forum post, though I am a long term lurker. Time to get off the side bench :-)
 
I lucked out. I ordered the two lens kit and they sent me the 'standard' kit with the 18-55 promising to send the 16mm later. After a month with no 16mm I raised a stink and basically got the 5n + 18-55 for $580, which I think was a good deal. I got the 16mm off eBay for $160 new.

Squeaky wheel and all that ;)

les

--
"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five."
Groucho Marx

http://www.leshall.com
 
A few with the Sony 16mm
These shots show what it's good at: relatively close central subject and nothing of detail interest in the corners. One reason there are so many different opinions on many lenses is that different users use them in different ways. If you shoot relatively flat, distant scenes like static landscapes then you are more likely to find ugly things in the lower corners (or upper corners if shooting through foliage.)

--
Erik
 
At f/8.0, the 16mm is fairly sharp.

If you use it as a low-light lens (closer to f/2.8), the corners and edges go soft, whereas the center remains reasonable.

For some composures this matters, for other composures it doesn't.

To beat the 16mm with a non-native lens means spending at least 3 to 4 times as much, anything less expensive is comparable, at best, or worse.

QC on the 16mm seems to have a worse than deserved reputation. If you see edge softness, flip the camera upside down and take the same shot. If the softness moves to the opposite side, the lens is misaligned. If the softness remains at the same side, it is a composure/DOF issue.

A lot of complaints on the 16mm were by non-users repeating 'claims'. Also, the 16mm was initially compared to the MFT which was incorrect. The 16mm is 24mmFF equiv whereas the MFT 16mm is 32mmFF equiv. (ie. compare with kit lens at 21mm).

Also, the default JPEG settings for the NEX are fairly mild for contrast, color and sharpness. Other cameras, or workflows, have more aggressive values. Try to increase such values for more popping results (screen versus print variations).

Lastly, the NEX tends to over-expose outdoors with the 16mm. Change the EV to -1EV or less or change the metering mode and use AE Lock.
A few with the Sony 16mm
These shots show what it's good at: relatively close central subject and nothing of detail interest in the corners. One reason there are so many different opinions on many lenses is that different users use them in different ways. If you shoot relatively flat, distant scenes like static landscapes then you are more likely to find ugly things in the lower corners (or upper corners if shooting through foliage.)

--
Erik
--
Cheers,
Henry
 
So I'm thinking about experimenting with a legacy lens - I haven't tried any thing like that in the past, but I like the idea of forcing myself to use manual focus and getting back to basics. So if anyone has any other suggestions for an inexpensive second hand lens as per the OP, I'd be really glad to hear them - I really don't want to spend more than about EUR 100 / USD 130 as it's my time to experiment and find out what's fun and what works.
I don't know what kind of legacy lens you expect to get. Among its other virtures the Sony e 16 is low priced. The voightlander 15 which seems to be the quality alternative is at least $500 USD. The lenses in this category I have thought about in the past are typically zooms in the range from $500 USD to $1000 USD. There may be some validity to some of the issues with the e 16. But I don't know any other choice that comes near beating it on quality / cost.

--
David Jacobson
 
A few with the Sony 16mm
These shots show what it's good at: relatively close central subject and nothing of detail interest in the corners. One reason there are so many different opinions on many lenses is that different users use them in different ways. If you shoot relatively flat, distant scenes like static landscapes then you are more likely to find ugly things in the lower corners (or upper corners if shooting through foliage.)
If you are talking about CA and color artefacts, I agree. If you are talking about problems with resolution, I don't. The e 16 does have a fair amount of CA in images like the ones I take that are prone to CA. There also seem to be some other color artifacts that may have to do with a variety of factors that I have not tracked down yet. However, I judge my results by how many hours I enjoy looking at the images I capture. The e 16 has performed very well for me on the type of image you describe according to this metric. I have one or two images where knowing the color artifacts are there and being very sensitive to them, they might have a very modest impact on the quality of the image. Moreover, this kind of CA has been present in all of the lenses that I have used in the past.
--
David Jacobson
 
If you are talking about CA and color artefacts, I agree. If you are talking about problems with resolution, I don't.
Show us your high resolution in the corners shots. Multiple tests (dpreview.com, photozone.de, slrgear.com) show the extreme corner "resolution" at f/2.8 at about 1/3 the center resolution and I've seen this in my 16mm. I'm still pleased with the lens and would recommend it to NEX users over the alternatives.

There is a difference between denying an issue exists and discussing its practical significance. If you want corner to corner sharpness, then 16mm is not the best lens. Of course the next question is how many real world photos are there where extreme corner sharpness is important. IMHO, very few and even fewer that are interesting compositionally.
However, I judge my results by how many hours I enjoy looking at the images I capture. The e 16 has performed very well for me on the type of image you describe according to this metric. I have one or two images where knowing the color artifacts are there and being very sensitive to them, they might have a very modest impact on the quality of the image.
This is the part where we are in violent agreement. Too many people seek perfection in the test numbers w/o thinking what it really means to their photography.
Moreover, this kind of CA has been present in all of the lenses that I have used in the past.
It's present in most wide angle lenses - it's the degree that differs. Again, it's usually not critical and processing can fix it enough that it's not often noticeable either.

--
Erik
 
The issue with sony's 16mm is that the IQ starts to degrade off center rapidly - extreme edge softness is ok but my understanding is that fully 1/4 on each side is soft
 
Les' pictures are very nice examples.

Those very particular have a few issues with the 16mm, but most of the images look good to me.

The NEX platform is great if you are willing to branch into manual lenses. The shortest I have is a 28mm Vivitar that is great fro intimate shooting.
--
Novice photobug, proud NEX-3 owner
http://davesnex-3photos.blogspot.com/
 
I lucked out. I ordered the two lens kit and they sent me the 'standard' kit with the 18-55 promising to send the 16mm later. After a month with no 16mm I raised a stink and basically got the 5n + 18-55 for $580, which I think was a good deal. I got the 16mm off eBay for $160 new.
Squeaky wheel and all that

That's a great deal! Lucky -censored-
:-)

Some really nice pics on the forum by the way Les.
 
I don't know what kind of legacy lens you expect to get. Among its other virtures the Sony e 16 is low priced. The voightlander 15 which seems to be the quality alternative is at least $500 USD. The lenses in this category I have thought about in the past are typically zooms in the range from $500 USD to $1000 USD. There may be some validity to some of the issues with the e 16. But I don't know any other choice that comes near beating it on quality / cost.

--
David Jacobson
Hi David

Thanks for the response. I guess I might be using the word legacy incorrectly (still finding my way around all the jargon etc) - perhaps I should have said second hand, or old, but fun. I guess I am looking for an inexpensive way to get to know the camera, learn a bit more about photography and starting to understand what makes a good lens.

Andrew
 
I would agree with you. Shooting landscapes with a kit lens probably isn't going to be perfect. But for people reasonably close-up and objects it's just fine.

Les
A few with the Sony 16mm
These shots show what it's good at: relatively close central subject and nothing of detail interest in the corners. One reason there are so many different opinions on many lenses is that different users use them in different ways. If you shoot relatively flat, distant scenes like static landscapes then you are more likely to find ugly things in the lower corners (or upper corners if shooting through foliage.)

--
Erik
--
"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five."
Groucho Marx

http://www.leshall.com
 
Yeah legacy (should) refer to old lenses from the SLR and rangefinder film days , in fact anything from way back. Some people are using old Kodak lenses torn off ancient cameras.

But most of the time people mean manual focus lenses.

Sadly there weren't many really wide lenses way back as the stock 24 & 28 were more than wide enough for most on a 35mm frame. Our digital cameras with crop sensors make those 'wide' lenses start behaving more like 'normal' lenses.

Any wacky REALLY wide lenses from way back are rare and or expensive. I would get on FLickr and do a search for NEX users shooting with the kit Sony 16mm and see how 'terrible' it really is. I would happily buy one again.

Good luck, Les
Thanks for the response. I guess I might be using the word legacy incorrectly (still finding my way around all the jargon etc) - perhaps I should have said second hand, or old, but fun. I guess I am looking for an inexpensive way to get to know the camera, learn a bit more about photography and starting to understand what makes a good lens.

Andrew
--
"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five."
Groucho Marx

http://www.leshall.com
 
I don't agree:




A few with the Sony 16mm
These shots show what it's good at: relatively close central subject and nothing of detail interest in the corners. One reason there are so many different opinions on many lenses is that different users use them in different ways. If you shoot relatively flat, distant scenes like static landscapes then you are more likely to find ugly things in the lower corners (or upper corners if shooting through foliage.)

--
Erik
--

Nex-7 with kit lenses, Contax G 35, and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)
 
The issue with sony's 16mm is that the IQ starts to degrade off center rapidly - extreme edge softness is ok but my understanding is that fully 1/4 on each side is soft
Again, it depends on what/how you shoot. The sides are not as sharp as the center but it's more noticeable in tests than in field use.

--
Erik
 
I don't agree:
What don't you agree with? If you peep (even at the size posted) you can see something odd in the lower corners of your shot but it's not very important to the image. All I said was "you are more likely to find ugly things in the [...] corners" with landscapes and brick walls, not that you cannot take a nice landscape photo with the 16mm.

--
Erik
 

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