An impossible NX task

After looking at all the post here on what Samsung should do next, it is clear there is very little agreement. The only way Samsung could please us lot is if they introduced 10 new models. Whatever they do bring out most will be disappointed. I can’t help thinking that this is the place where all the picky people end up. Yes, that includes me!

Rangefinder, compact or DSLR like
OVF, EVF or hybrid
Simple back display or swivel at the side or swivel up and down
Simple good quality or all the bells and whistle
Fast enough for sport or just OK fast
Video important/unimportant
Black or Silver or Coloured
Modern or old fashioned styling
From Value product to Money’s no object
What have I forgotten?

Good luck Samsung ticking all those boxes

The updated 20MP sensor, better JPEG processing, swivel screen and a good EVF are all it really needs... Hopefully the ergonomics/controls will be a home run like the NX10. Everything else is rather subjective, IMO.

With prices of some of these new cameras like the new Fuji X-Pro1 and Canon G1X rolling in around the $700 or higher mark, I suspect the NX20 will get priced even higher than the NX200, like maybe $899 or even $1K. I suspect Samsung will be aiming at the Fuji in terms of how their new model(s) stack up.

if the price is that high, few ppl will buy the NX for months and the line will be in serious danger. Look at the NX200: considering it's been out for several months, now, there are few users here with the newer camera. I think we got too well used with the NX100/NX10 costing a little.

The NX20, if it's just a NX200 with EVF, has to cost 800$ at most, IMHO.

Well, fact is, if a new camera isn't better than the old lot, why would anyone want it?

Any new camera must tick 2 or 3 from the below list if people are going to buy it:

Highest megapixel count
Coolest design
Best Swivel screen
Best high ISO performance
Best lenses
Coolest brand name
Largest sensor
Best EVF
Coolest accessories
Fastest most accurate auto focus

Even if NX20 would have been announced yesterday, it wouldn't tick any of the above, so why bother? Second or third best isn't good enough in this market.

Ian Leach said:

.....
What have I forgotten?

Good luck Samsung ticking all those boxes

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The current lament is a result from the withdrawn NX20 release last Sep as all this discussion would be different if a second model with EVF would be offered by Samsung containing the new Sensor

So Samsung looses the tick in the box game in any case as the NX200 cannot win because of specs but just when you are with the things it does not have (which is mainly the EVF)

I do see the main issue elsewhere when it comes to have people getting physical contact with any NX camera.

The main advantage of the NX line is its ease of use but how would someone buying a camera online get convinced when the tick in the box spreadsheet returns a different camera has more features.

You cannot judge if the current AMOLED allows you to watch the screen from any angle as the potential buyer sees "no articulated screen" and off it is...and some more things as the iFN will only show its potential when used.. else it comes across a nice gimmick that reviewer seldom appreciate.

All this is depends on your option to try it hence it means that if you cannot touch it in a store you chose what you see even if you buy online later.

Personally I know exactly what I demand from an NX10 upgrade which is simply the current 20Mp sensor, an OLED EVF that you can properly use with max magnification, similar layout as the current NX10 is just fine (maybe some option more to configure some buttons to a more personal layout) and a further improved AF regards speed. I would expect the kit price to be at NX200 plus 150/200$ range making it an MSRP at 1000$ or slightly below and selling it at store for 800

for me its clear that I will use two NX bodies for different purposes,one for light travel and one for more heavy lenses an special shootings

I agree that's what it SHOULD cost, but looking at the high prices coming from the NEX-7 ($1350), X-Pro1 ($1700 BODY), G1X ($799 with fixed lens) and even the E-P3 (a whopping $899 at launch)...

Then consider that the NX200 is (presumably) lower on the product ladder than the NX20, well, I think we're looking at no less than $800 at launch for the kit.

Funny thing is, with the NEX prices and mediocre glass selection, somewhat sideways move that m4/3 represents, the huge Fuji Pro pricetag and still high price of the NX200, I'm not really feeling like I'm missing much sticking with my NX100 and a few legacy lenses. Hell, I even picked up a DP1s for cheap on Craigslist and have been having fun with that weird thing, too. And when I decide I want something new, there's the 16mm 2.4 or Macro to look at, or maybe a used NX200 body..?

I'm not sweating it.

britho said:

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Any new camera must tick 2 or 3 from the below list if people are going to buy it:

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I am extremely happy with Samsung not getting things totally wrong. That drives my decision......

The only thing Samsung must stay on top of the crowd is keeping up the good lens line up. This is btw one of the things that attracts buyers

Most of the other elements you flagged would mean that it was impossible to shoot any reasonable image prior to the release of e.g. the NEX7

tjobbe said:

britho said:

...

Any new camera must tick 2 or 3 from the below list if people are going to buy it:

Click to expand...

I am extremely happy with Samsung not getting things totally wrong. That drives my decision......

The only thing Samsung must stay on top of the crowd is keeping up the good lens line up. This is btw one of the things that attracts buyers

Most of the other elements you flagged would mean that it was impossible to shoot any reasonable image prior to the release of e.g. the NEX7

Click to expand...

Not at all, some camera or other always has/had the highest MP count, best AF, best lenses etc, the NEX7 just happened to tick a lot of those boxes in one go, and is currently the benchmark which any new camera must better.

For me most of the changes I want are not difficult software changes. Compressed RAWs (hopefully DNG files), better JPEG processing, AF that uses the entire picture frame and is significantly faster (like the first m43 Panasonic G1 did in 2007).

Everything else would be gravy. Faster focusing lens motors would be nice, plus a flash unit that can swivel. And reducing the rolling shutter effect in video if possible.

britho said:

......

Not at all, some camera or other always has/had the highest MP count, best AF, best lenses etc, the NEX7 just happened to tick a lot of those boxes in one go, and is currently the benchmark which any new camera must better.

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It benchmarks so well because the negative elements are somewhat ignored or downplayed and it fails for me in some aspects so badly that despite its other virtues won"t get short listed. DPreview lists those reasons in their review but misses them at the end (maybe because of lack of space)

As said: I am left eye viewer so the EVF design is a no-go, no usable pancake, the need for special gear for handling of flashes and tripod mounts (which might even make the tilting screen of the 7 non functional) etc....and last not least the only one real good lens makes it so expensive that I cannot afford it all. sluggish AF in low light (or a design flaw implementing the AF support light what ever you believe to be better)

Its a really good camera but in terms of IQ its just a "killer" if you preferably shoot at high ISO... I do not do that but try to avoid it, hence I am good with a camera that has a measurably better IQ at 100-400 ISO and keeps still usably at ISO4000 if I need.

Samsung is samsung; try to make a round sensor or concave sensor surface for pass the design limit of bigger sensor had shallow DOF. I do wished a perfect NX200 is comming.
--
hpchan

Ian Leach said:

What have I forgotten?

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Remote access via WiFi or at least via USB ... similar to DSLR Controller for Canon
--> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnxvFYza6Y4

sensibill said:

With prices of some of these new cameras like the new Fuji X-Pro1 and Canon G1X rolling in around the $700 or higher mark

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Fuji is is $1700 body only, lenses are $650+

Thanks for the replies everyone, but in a way you are all proving my point by your personal wish lists.

The point of my original list is that it can’t be met, the only way to keep OVF, EVF and hybrid VF people happy is to make three cameras. Multiply that by all the combinations and Samsung would need a 50 camera line up. Let’s face it; most of us are not going to get what we want.

I think exactly the same, and I'm sitting quite happy with my NX100 the new macro gives me a lot of fun and pleasure, more than a new body. I'll buy a new body only if/when something really good is released, costing less than 600$, with an EVF. That means I'll have to wait quite a bit, so that the NX20 or even the NX1 come out and get cheaper over time

I am really surprise why Samsung is not more aggressive on the mirrorless market, I mean until now I am happy with my system and have plans to continue on NX system.

But Samsung is the only company been among the firsts place doing almost everything necessary for a camera and they have one of the biggest profit as a company.

The NX system really needs a more aggressive team, photographer orientation and better software designer, but especially they need a better marketing team and customer long time support and assistance. They need collaborate more with others Samsung divisions and start with a medium term investment for NX system to 3 or 5 years, with low profit but high market penetration and acceptation.

The NX200 in my opinion should migrate to touch-screen models, simple use, Android OS integration, WiFi, small-light and cheaper using the same 14MPx CMOS sensor on NX100 with a improve low pass filter or eliminating it completely. NX need a NX1000 for less than $400.

In the other extreme, the NX1 to the same level or better than medium level DSLR, an advanced amateur´s camera with a new CMOS of 18MPx. There Samsung must include the best of the best in image processor, memory, CMOS technology, EVF, AF, buffer, ergonomic design, controls and connectivity (WiFi and GPS), a camera to allow many users look on Samsung like an option to migrate from DSLR. A NX1 for no more of $1000 with low profit but huge acceptation.

The NX20 should be a classic rangefinder design model with the same EVF and using the 20Mpx sensor on NX200 but simpler and smaller about function and operation. There is not necessary 10fps. $800.

The NX300 would be the same than NX20 but without EVF, lighter and smaller, using the actual 20MPx sensor. $600.

All system need lenses and Samsung has doing good on this way, but they need a better marketing and be present in a bigger market and on time.

Medium term, 2 years with 5 lenses per year Samsung need cover the telephoto area and wide angle need for the first year.

If the "leaked/rumored" lenses roadmap is true, the 80-400m and 135mm are the best complementary lenses along 12-24mm and 24mm.

For the second year the high end lenses that every system should have must be coming. A 16-50mm f/2.8, a 50-135mm f/2.8 and fixed lenses like 35 and 50mm.

Surely Samsung won´t make a lot of money on profit with a huge investment like this, but would present the NX system more seriously on the market and they could recovery their investment to long term.

Ian Leach said:

Thanks for the replies everyone, but in a way you are all proving my point by your personal wish lists.

The point of my original list is that it can’t be met, the only way to keep OVF, EVF and hybrid VF people happy is to make three cameras. Multiply that by all the combinations and Samsung would need a 50 camera line up. Let’s face it; most of us are not going to get what we want.

Click to expand...

I agree with you, but if Samsung is looking the mirrorless market to try to dominate it seriously, they need more than 2 models.

I know many of those things are wish list and some of them difficult to obtain, but they really can drop the bomb on the market to shake it.
They have been too conservative...