ok. so just how bad is this orb issue

Just after buying the X10 (because of low light performance, OVF and color rendition) I took these shots of a sculpture in a shady area. Orbs hadn't been discovered then, but I later wondered why the eye had reflections in about 50% of the shots. These highlights weren't visible on the sculpture in real life when shooting, and only the zoom range was changed from shot to shot (Iso 100). I've ordered a polarizing filter in the hope of minimizing the occurrence of these unwanted highlights that seem to happen unpredictably (depending on firmware algorithms?).



















 
Best not to do surveys if you might not like the results.

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/
 
I shoot everything in RAW. I'm not finding that in RAW I'm getting any better highlight control here than on my G12. Or GF2.
Well, I know that neither of those cameras have any more than around 1EV. ;-)

So that means you are either:

1) Not shooting DR400

2) Using -ve EV to prevent highlight clipping instead.

If you shoot DR400 at 0EV on a bright day, in RAW you will see at least 1.5 to 2.7EV of highlights available above 0EV. This will inevitably give you better highlight details and allow you to keep your shadow details at a viewable level.

I've posted numerous example images, some complete with histograms to make it more interesting.

--
Cheers ;-)

Trevor G

Silkypix tutorials at: http://photo.computerwyse.com
 
Best not to do surveys if you might not like the results.
euh.
you think it's correct to mix these percentages together?!

percentages that on one hand are about "so many orbs on a total of so many hundred or thousand shots" and on the other hand perentages that are about "in this specific condition i had 100% orbs".

do you think these are same kind of percentages. you think i am subjective by splitting this up in two categories?

... so even counting is now subjective
it would seem so ...
because you replied "far too many" when asked about a percentage of orb shots.
and when asked to specify you answered this :
the whole idea of this post is too quantify the problem. and avoid terms like "all the time", "far too many", ... which are simply too subjective.
As some people claim they do not see "orbs" when they are staring them in the face, this WHOLE issue is subjective. I can shoot my cats for hours and not get a single orb. However, it's not my only interest.

If I face a sunset and realize it's not worth taking my camera out of the case because it will look like garbage because the sun is eating a chunk of the earth, it's too many. Especially when other cameras I can buy HAVE NO SUCH ISSUE.

I don't want to get rid of my X10. I want it FIXED.
... clearly avoiding a simple question about a numbercount. talk about subjective.

besides that, i don't really have a problem with any outcome of this checkup. i am neither someone who denies the existance of orbs. neither are any of the people that replied (only 1 peron has 0 orbs).

i started this thread because the whole orb issue is seriously exagerated in this forum.

and so far there's only one person saying about 10% of his total number of shots (!) has orbs.

if you see this otherwise, than indeed even counting is subjective.
 
I am approaching 950 pics on my X10 and so far, I have counted around 50 pictures where orbs were present when looking at 100% crop.

Of those, 20 were obvious enough to throw the picture in the garbage can (notably ISO400 pics of my son doing ice-skating with floodlight pointing directly at me).

So my percentage of "orbing" seem to be around 5% but I am affraid it doesn't say a lot about the problem in itself since I mainly shoot people/street/landscapes that aren't very prone to orbs.

My percentages would probably be completely different if I was shooting mainly cityscapes at night or car shows.

Anyway, my 0,02€...
--
http://lol-photoblog.blogspot.com/
 
probably.
although. strictly speaking it was about % of ALL pics. deliberate or not.
so theoretically not.
and wouldn't wanna be called subjective. :-)
 
I am wondering if a polarising filter would cut out the daylight orbs which to me are worse than the night orbs because the day orbs appear randomly against reflections of the sun, hence the light is polarised and should be eliminated by the filter before it reaches the sensor.
it didn't for me, nor did a nd filter.............good luck.
wj
--
nikonandricoh
 
you mix two kinds of percentages.

percentages that represent the number of orbs in the total amount of photos taken so far (which i asked) and percentages that reflect how big a chance you have of orbs in a given situation.
Knurl, go back through ALL of the posts as I took time to do and you'll see that I quoted what each user stated - not what I wanted to quote as you did. It's YOUR thread and YOUR little set of posting rules and guidelines - so let's see YOU post the results, shall we - rather than debating the results. I do think that you owe it to all who participated to provide your results in a comprehensible manner, stating what each photographer said verbetim, rather than trying to skew comments to suit any personal agenda you might have.

By now you should realize that different shooting conditions present orbs. Therefore, the survey was doomed from the start with any 'sense' of fairness removed from the table. I think it was a scatterbrained mess and I'm glad I didn't start the thread as I'd be hiding ostrich-style right now.

Look and see how many times in this thread that several photographers (some who didn't even participate in the survey) told you this over and over, and still - you are not recognizing such. Because shooting conditions are the influencing factor - you have to take this into consideration.

As GaryJP said, it's best not to do surveys if you don't like the numbers and that counting is now subjective.
you do seem a little biased as you turn "a handful" into 10% and omit "closer to 1%" in the sentence 1 to 10%. :-P
If you want to hear that the orb issue is insignificant, make another thread on the front page of the FTF and exclude those who take long exposures, night shots and subjects and scenes containing secular highlights.

If you shoot in conditions like Paul, like JW, like Timur and like Shutterbobby - tell them it isn't an issue - or to the SIGNIFICANT others who have either returned the camera because of such, or who have also experienced the issue, or who aren't purchasing the camera because of such. We don't have 1 or 2 people here peeing on the x10 party. As Fuji-lovers, the regular posters here WANTED the camera to be all that it was promised, although several newbies here claim otherwise.
you can also come to another conlusion if you only look at the people that gave percentage of the total nr of pics so far.
then you're actually seeing :
7 shooters that fall into the 1% or less category,
2 shooters that fall into the 2% category (trevor and tom schum) and
1 shooter falls into the 10% category (shutterbobby)

besides that there are 4 shooters that don't give total number but describe shooting situations (!) in which they got up to 100% of orbs. (paul, timur, wj & shutterbobby)

(garyjp only describes it as "far too many". which is too subjective. for some 1% could already be far too many.)
This is why you need to go back through each and every comment as I did instead of cherry picking your preferred results as people amended their stats through the thread. You should provide EACH photographer's comments and percentages as well as any special notes they mentioned about the shoot.

At this point, I've just about reached the conclusion as another poster in this thread - to just sit back and gloat over Orb City. But there are people here like JW who owns the x10 and whom I care about and therefore, I hope the camera gets a Fuji whammy in the right direction.
--
Jada

http://silentoracle.weebly.com/blog.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_silent_oracle/
 
@silentoracle.
see my reply to garyjp.
if you guys think these are same kind of %, no point in further arguing.

i wasn't hiding anything in my results. i just put them in two groups. nothing more.

ps 1
you do seem a little biased as you turn "a handful" into 10% and omit "closer to 1%" in the sentence 1 to 10%.
i forgot. you also changed garyjp's answer from "far too many" in "excessive".

ps2
... As Fuji-lovers, the regular posters here WANTED the camera to be all that it was promised, although several newbies here claim otherwise.
so as a fuji-lover, when was the last time fuji made a camera that was all that it was promised? you know, a camera with no negatives.
just out of curiosity. for me personally, they are pretty close with this X10.
 
This is typical bullying tactics being displayed here and while unfortunate is pretty par for the course I guess.

Argue about words all you like, who cares, but the reality is the same.

Your collective position falls down because of one simple fact: Orbs are not in every single frame the X10 produces.

A discerning photographer could be happy most of the time with this camera.

A hyper pixel peeper could never be happy with this camera and that is what we are seeing here.

One position is based on a rational approach to photography, one is completely irrational.

The Orb issue is unfortunate and a fix is desirable for obvious reasons, but as it stands the camera is not unusable for most subject matter, but perhaps is for specific subject matter.

Fixing the orbs will make a good camera a great camera, and that is what I hope happens.

Trolling endlessly about the issue says more about the trolls than anyone purchasing an X10.
Summit_pg wrote:
If you're the shoot and upload to facebook type the orbs won't be an issue.
This sort of ignorant comment is what starts so many unnecessary flame wars around here.

What you are effectively saying is that no one can be a 'proper' photographer and own an X10.
No, he is saying the converse; that if you are not a "proper" photographer, then the orbs won't bother you.
Or maybe he is saying no one who is a proper photographer would own one.
I responded to Daniel's post without reading the original post from which he quoted. There is no doubt that the passage he quoted doesn't justify the conclusion he drew. That involves confusing a proposition with its converse, as I have already stated.

Reading the original post, I find:

"Honestly, if I were you I would wait for the new firmware or buy something else. If you have a critical eye and review/process/print your photos you will notice and will be annoyed by the orbs."

That particular passage is more supportive of the conclusion drawn, though it is not conclusive. He is indicating his preferences and, in addition, saying that the orbs will annoy someone with a critical eye. However a person may still buy a camera even though one aspect of it is annoying.

--
john carson
 
Excessive and 'far too many' have identical meanings.

I'll refrain from further comments until you put the final report together....unless you're too lazy to do such.
i wasn't hiding anything in my results. i just put them in two groups. nothing more.

ps 1
you do seem a little biased as you turn "a handful" into 10% and omit "closer to 1%" in the sentence 1 to 10%.
i forgot. you also changed garyjp's answer from "far too many" in "excessive".

ps2
... As Fuji-lovers, the regular posters here WANTED the camera to be all that it was promised, although several newbies here claim otherwise.
so as a fuji-lover, when was the last time fuji made a camera that was all that it was promised? you know, a camera with no negatives.
just out of curiosity. for me personally, they are pretty close with this X10.
--
Jada

http://silentoracle.weebly.com/blog.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_silent_oracle/
 
Your collective position falls down because of one simple fact: Orbs are not in every single frame the X10 produces.

A discerning photographer could be happy most of the time with this camera.

A hyper pixel peeper could never be happy with this camera and that is what we are seeing here.
Nonsense. That's no different than saying if the focus went completely haywire on one shot in twenty it would not matter or only a "pixel peeper" would care. Well, it would matter to those who need that one shot in twenty.

An intermittent fault remains a fault, and those are sometimes the most annoying kind. Anyone who thinks that only a "pixel peeper" could be concerned about the crappy low light results on the NEW Fujifilm camera probably misses a dozen other bad things about their images too. I've been through this with two cameras before, and every one of these same forms of denial came up with those cameras too. The Canon 1D MkIII initially had problems focusing in certain circumstances where other cameras in its range focused. And so did the Canon XL1 video camera. In both instances Canon attempted fixes while downplayers and deniers used EVERY strategy being used here to stop people saying the "f..." word: FOCUS.

The fact is that without people kicking up a fuss about the X10, there are going to be MORE new generations of camera coming out with great white blobs in certain conditions, as is already happening. Hey, Fujifilm can make a "feature" of it - "the brand with the blobs".

We both want a fix, but not everyone with higher standards or expectations than you for a camera that UNDERPERFORMS what other cameras in the market deliver in these circumstances has to be a "pixel peeper". They just need eyes.
Trolling endlessly about the issue says more about the trolls than anyone purchasing an X10.
Ah, so people with different expectations than you are now "pixel peepers" AND "trolls".

Way to go.

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/
 
Very well written Gary. I cheer your sentiment strongly and glad that you are among us fighting for the highest possible IQ from Fujifilm. There are many among us here who simply have no interest in industry leading IQ and cannot tolerate any criticism at all towards Fujifilm to attain this goal.

It is disappointing that you see all to common here the words troll and such thrown at those who push for high quality standards.

--

http://fujifilmimages.aminus3.com/
 
I shoot everything in RAW. I'm not finding that in RAW I'm getting any better highlight control here than on my G12. Or GF2.
Well, I know that neither of those cameras have any more than around 1EV. ;-)
They do not, under any circumstances, give me orbs. And I actually work with their RAW files, which is why I notice this.

My X10 is set on DR400. It does not solve the problem.

So is it your contention that orbs, caused by over-exposure do NOT exist when you use DR400?

Why then does not Fuji simply tell everyone this is a fix for the X10 and the XS-1? Problem solved.

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/
 
you do seem a little biased as you turn "a handful" into 10% and omit "closer to 1%" in the sentence 1 to 10%.
i forgot. you also changed garyjp's answer from "far too many" in "excessive".
For me "far too many" IS "excessive".

Clarified.

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/
 
An intermittent fault still makes a machine 100% unreliable when you need it in situations where that intermittent fault occurs.

If your brakes failed only one time in a hundred, you'd still not put your family in that car.

Unless, apparently, it was made by Fujifilm.

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/
 
It is disappointing that you see all to common here the words troll and such thrown at those who push for high quality standards.
Says the man who keeps calling other users "fanboys" in a non-flattering manner. :P ;)
 

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