ok. so just how bad is this orb issue

GaryJP said:

...

The most dishonest thing about posts like yours is that even if you claim it's not an issue for you, if Fujifilm actually DOES come out with a firmware upgrade to fix this "non-existent" problem for you, YOU will be one of the first downloading it.

Yes, it occurs in FAR TOO MANY of my shots, when it does not with other cameras.

Click to expand...

there's nothing dishonest with trying to give a correct perspective on just how big this problem is.

also not if i would download a firmware update. it would simply solve the issue that occurs in less than 1% of my shots. who wouldn't want that. and i can live with it if the 1% orbs stay. nothing dishonest here.

can you put a number on "far too many". so if you look back at the total number of pics you took so far, how many were orbed?

the whole idea of this post is too quantify the problem. and avoid terms like "all the time", "far too many", ... which are simply too subjective.

Hence the "irony" comment

In fact there ARE orbs in this pic.

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/

Knowing this issue why would ANYONE risk buying a single one of their new cams?

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/

Timur Born said:

1% in my most important photography subject: family photos.

100% in dark scenery shots (not necessarily night) with more or less strong light sources (doesn't need to be too strong). I work (and learned) to control the latter to a degree I can mostly live with.

Click to expand...

hi timur.

just for the sake of statistics.

how many in %? (nr of orb pics / total number of pics)

thanks.

knurl said:

can you put a number on "far too many". so if you look back at the total number of pics you took so far, how many were orbed?

the whole idea of this post is too quantify the problem. and avoid terms like "all the time", "far too many", ... which are simply too subjective.

Click to expand...

How can anyone be any more specific than a rough guess? The orbs are distracting enough that you can see them on the 3" LCD and they get deleted there and then, unless it's a really good orb shot worth sharing of course.

Paul.

knurl said:

the whole idea of this post is too quantify the problem. and avoid terms like "all the time", "far too many", ... which are simply too subjective.

Click to expand...

As some people claim they do not see "orbs" when they are staring them in the face, this WHOLE issue is subjective. I can shoot my cats for hours and not get a single orb. However, it's not my only interest.

If I face a sunset and realize it's not worth taking my camera out of the case because it will look like garbage because the sun is eating a chunk of the earth, it's too many. Especially when other cameras I can buy HAVE NO SUCH ISSUE.

I don't want to get rid of my X10. I want it FIXED.

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/

PAUL TILL said:

GaryJP said:

Oh for F.. F... S..., if you take snaps of your family and dog in mid range lighting conditions you'll never see them.

If you take a lot of night shots you'll see them a lot more.

The strength of any camera is not how well it performs in conditions an iPhone could shoot accurately. It's how well it performs in fringe conditions. That's usually why we pay more.

The most dishonest thing about posts like yours is that even if you claim it's not an issue for you, if Fujifilm actually DOES come out with a firmware upgrade to fix this "non-existent" problem for you, YOU will be one of the first downloading it.

Yes, it occurs in FAR TOO MANY of my shots, when it does not with other cameras.

Click to expand...

Exactly, talking of firmwares, anyone heard anything regarding the fix for the problem that doesn't exist? It's been three weeks since they announced they were going to fix the non existent problem and I was just wondering if the launch of their new cams has put it on hold.

Could it be that they can't fix it and they're just hoping if they leave it long enough we'll forget about it.

Click to expand...

I agree with Gary & Paul.

But with threads like this....it's going to look like there is a very happy lot of photographers who do not consider ORBS an issue when the type of shooting/lighting/conditions that they use do not project the issue.

Threads like this.....they may encourage Fuji to do nothing.
--
Jada

http://silentoracle.weebly.com/blog.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_silent_oracle/

knurl said:

just for the sake of statistics.

how many in %? (nr of orb pics / total number of pics)

Click to expand...

Sorry, cannot count them all and I still don't know about any straight counter in the X10 apart from its naming scheme (that does not count up straight, but use prefixes/subfolders).

I likely had well over a thousand shots now. Counting only the family photos there was a handful of white discs where I used flash straight towards a window/glass surface (dark outside) and one where I shot a mall with one single small spot pointed directly towards me.

Every time I shot my street with its lamps in the dark I get serious blooming which easily can turn into discs/orbs/whatever if I don't control the camera settings (especially aperture, DR and ISO).

The most inconvenient thing about this issue is that it can happen in EXR AUTO (shopping mall photo), where the user has no control over what happens inside the camera. This is where I expect a firmware fix to improve things. I can live with the rest until a better camera comes up, as for now the X10 offers the best of what I need.

knurl said:

just to clarify this. a dedicated thread to get some grip on how big a problem this is for the actual X10 user.

how often did you get orbs/white discs/... ?

Click to expand...

Basically I am not bothered by orbs. I might get them in 1% to 10% of my shots (probably closer to 1%) because I don't shoot bright lights much. I don't go looking for orbs.

When I have seen them (which is very rare for me) they usually have not been a significant detraction from the image, in my opinion.
--
Tom Schum

PAUL TILL said:

If you don't shoot anything that can reflect the sun during the day, or any scene with lights at night you can probably live with the X10. Unfortunately I don't just shoot flowers, trees or kids all the time like the majority of X10 owners here on the FTF.

Click to expand...

You left out garbage. I like to shoot garbage.





--
Tom Schum

as stated...depends on the shooting environment (not the 'shooter' imo)

at xmas I shot 185 frames, in doors, 4 had orbs...none were ruined.

at an outdoor car show, bright light, chrome etc...I shot 435 frames, over 150 had orbs, 30+ - were ruined

YMMV!!!!!!!

wj
--
nikonandricoh

I shot 1032 pictures with the X10. I saw orbs in one of them.

Enrique

knurl said:

just to clarify this. a dedicated thread to get some grip on how big a problem this is for the actual X10 user.

how often did you get orbs/white discs/... ?

a/ never,
b/ 1% of your shots ,
c/ 10% of your shots,
d/ all the time.

and the ones you got...

did you get them because you went orb-hunting deliberately? or did they occur in what you would call a typical shot?
are they actually disturbing in the image? or visible only on pixel level?

i've got about 5 shots in ca 1000 shots. it was disturbing in 4 of these (all fireworks with +2sec exposure, nevertheless i also got some nice orbfree ones in that series). the 5th one i was deliberately hunting for it (bright sun in mirror xmas ball).
maybe there are more, but then i haven't noticed them yet.

Click to expand...

Silent Oracle said:

Threads like this.....they may encourage Fuji to do nothing.

Click to expand...

More than anything else, I think that this is what's poisoning the discussions on this subject.

People not owning the camera or having frequent problems with orbs are very eager for Fuji to solve the problem and think that the more they complain about it on this forum, the more Fuji will haste towards a solution.

Most people happy with their X10, for evident reasons, aren't so stressed about getting a fix and do not really understand the impatience of others while the first group think that these are somehow "traitors" encouraging Fuji to take a nap on the issues.

Now some may also belong to a third group (or maybe I am the only one in it): the group which thinks that complaining here accomplish nothing, especially after the official statement by Fuji that they were working on a fix (done after some users contacted Fuji directly AFAIK).

The way I see it, either Fuji can make a fix and they are at it, or they can't. In either cases, no amount of FTF complaining can change one thing or even speed things up.

It's a good thing a forum like this exists to point the problems out and push owners towards complaining to camera makers but beyond that there is not much positive that can be accomplished while waiting for the camera makers to act and things quickly run in circles.

--
http://lol-photoblog.blogspot.com/

Orbs at least on 10% of shots if not careful enough, on musical instruments(brass/woodwind) 90% if I use a direct light source..many in my gallery here...

as has been said 1000 X before we just a a Fix Fuji!!! otherwise a very cool camera a a joy to use.....
--
LOVE LIFE & LAUGHTER

Silent Oracle said:

PAUL TILL said:

GaryJP said:

Oh for F.. F... S..., if you take snaps of your family and dog in mid range lighting conditions you'll never see them.

If you take a lot of night shots you'll see them a lot more.

The strength of any camera is not how well it performs in conditions an iPhone could shoot accurately. It's how well it performs in fringe conditions. That's usually why we pay more.

The most dishonest thing about posts like yours is that even if you claim it's not an issue for you, if Fujifilm actually DOES come out with a firmware upgrade to fix this "non-existent" problem for you, YOU will be one of the first downloading it.

Yes, it occurs in FAR TOO MANY of my shots, when it does not with other cameras.

Click to expand...

Exactly, talking of firmwares, anyone heard anything regarding the fix for the problem that doesn't exist? It's been three weeks since they announced they were going to fix the non existent problem and I was just wondering if the launch of their new cams has put it on hold.

Could it be that they can't fix it and they're just hoping if they leave it long enough we'll forget about it.

Click to expand...

I agree with Gary & Paul.

But with threads like this....it's going to look like there is a very happy lot of photographers who do not consider ORBS an issue when the type of shooting/lighting/conditions that they use do not project the issue.

Threads like this.....they may encourage Fuji to do nothing.

Click to expand...

The journalits at the CES show should be camping on Fuji's stand and hassling them about the orbs, while threatening to spill the beans in their magazines and blogs. But of course they are not real journalists attending the show, just PR disseminators craving Fuji's advertising coin for the new product releases and they will be dutifully regurgitating the feature sets of all the new cameras and having fake orbgasims about the new mirrorless system with the PR people, over nibbles.

This is the last line of defense for the abandoned X10 owners, (not that they all entirely appreciate the effort), right here and right now on the FTF of DPR.

This small and forgotten subset of raving mad but entirely harmless Bahai thespians, seek beauty and innocence in a world full of sorrow and see no orbs, hear no orbs and speak no orbs, they need to be sheltered from the real world of bits, bytes and blooms by those of us of a more revolutionary disposition.

"Do you hear the people sing
singing the song of angry men
this is the music of the people
who will not be slaves again
etc etc"

You need to change your name to Noisy Orbacle, raise the flag of resistance and charge across the barricade or at least the counter of Fuji's information booth on their stand at the CES, while recording it all on a X10 set at ISO 100, backed up by a de-centered F550 and then post the clips to YouTube.

Its the start of the Orab Spring, right here and right now.

--
S100, S6500, S5, F300, F200, F70, F11, F31 (deceased), Z5, V10, D40, EX1

Wellington100 said:

The journalits at the CES show should be camping on Fuji's stand and hassling them about the orbs, while threatening to spill the beans in their magazines and blogs. But of course they are not real journalists attending the show, just PR disseminators craving Fuji's advertising coin for the new product releases and they will be dutifully regurgitating the feature sets of all the new cameras and having fake orbgasims about the new mirrorless system with the PR people, over nibbles.

This is the last line of defense for the abandoned X10 owners, (not that they all entirely appreciate the effort), right here and right now on the FTF of DPR.

This small and forgotten subset of raving mad but entirely harmless Bahai thespians, seek beauty and innocence in a world full of sorrow and see no orbs, hear no orbs and speak no orbs, they need to be sheltered from the real world of bits, bytes and blooms by those of us of a more revolutionary disposition.

"Do you hear the people sing
singing the song of angry men
this is the music of the people
who will not be slaves again
etc etc"

You need to change your name to Noisy Orbacle, raise the flag of resistance and charge across the barricade or at least the counter of Fuji's information booth on their stand at the CES, while recording it all on a X10 set at ISO 100, backed up by a de-centered F550 and then post the clips to YouTube.

Its the start of the Orab Spring, right here and right now.

Click to expand...

Wellington, your posts always make me smile.

I'm sure that Fuji is still monitoring the forum but I don't think that we'll ever see the Fuji Rep Paul here again. I think he feels safer reading in the shadows.
--
Jada

http://silentoracle.weebly.com/blog.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_silent_oracle/

Far less than one percent. I've found one in about 2000 shots and I had to look REAL hard. I don't do long exposure night shots on a tripod - THAT's the one place it seems to be a pretty real and consistent problem. I do a LOT of shots in broad daylight with lots of reflective surfaces and I know they CAN happen in that situation as well, but I've yet to see it. The one shot I found 'em in was a low light shot at iso 100 with some VERY bright lights in the background and a few of them bloomed out on me, but it was really hard to tell if it was just the direct lights or whether they had "bloomed" - at 100% crop you could see it was orbs but I'd have never noticed them if I hadn't been looking for them.

-Ray
-------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/

PAUL TILL said:

If you don't shoot anything that can reflect the sun during the day, or any scene with lights at night you can probably live with the X10. Unfortunately I don't just shoot flowers, trees or kids all the time like the majority of X10 owners here on the FTF.

Click to expand...

I don't shoot long exposures at low ISO at night, where I'd expect to see them - the one example I've found were in somewhat similar circumstances. But I shoot a LOT in very bright daylight situations in urban areas with a ton of reflective surfaces. And I've never seen any in those shots. Not once. I know they'll pop up in those cases occasionally, but its not a common occurrence.

-Ray
-------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/

knurl said:

. . .
don't understand what you write here.

this thread is to hear - from actual X10 users - how big the orb issue is in their experience. so , in %, how many shots (of the total they shot up till now) contained orbs.
simply because the subject seems out of proportion on this forum.

Click to expand...

No, this thread is NOT limited to telling you only what you want to hear, as shown by your leading questions and statements. It wouldn't be fair to any prospective X10 owners that really want to make an informed decision about the camera to insure that they only see X10 'happy talk'. It wouldn't be appropriate to unfairly criticize the X10 either, but balanced, fair comments should be the rule, and if you don't like this you can petition DPR to make OPs the moderators of their own threads. Either that or you can start your own heavily moderated (read censored) blog, which others have done.

knurl said:

Silent Oracle said:

Knurl, I understand the point of your thread - but we shouldn't overlook the fact that we have photographers paying significant $$$$$ for a camera and who should NOT even have to waste time inspecting each and every shot they take for this issue.

Click to expand...

about the "significant $$$$$". this still is a prosumer P&S. priced rightly for what you get, IMO.

i think one should ALWAYS inspect every shot to check focus, blown highlights, wb, ...

orb happens so little, that you should certainly not inspect EVERY image for them.

Click to expand...

Lest you've forgotten, orbs are a real problem, acknowledged by Fujifilm, bad enough for Fuji to have issued what I believe to be an unprecedented statement that they're working to do something about it long before actually solving the problem. We assume that this will take the form of a firmware fix, but it's been nearly a month since this statement was issued. If orbs were as innocuous and you claim, Fuji would never have made that acknowledgment. By not inspecting many/most of the photos it's almost certain that you and others will end up with some orbs in your photos. There's nothing wrong with that if you don't mind them being there, but many others feel otherwise, and deserve to be able to read about the minuses as well as the pluses.

The title of your OP ("ok. so just how bad is this orb issue") is actually an invitation to discuss what you clearly don't want to hear about. You say that the orb problem occurs so rarely that while other photos should be checked for other issues, orbs shouldn't be. Really? So before people have a chance to answer your question, you're telling everyone that you already know the answer. This isn't a thread to be proud of. It would have been more honest to have titled it "ok. so just tell us all how insignificant this orb issue really is."

So if people follow your advice, only rarely checking for orbs, all you'll hear are replies saying "I never see orbs." If you want to learn the truth about the frequency or severity of the X10's orbs, don't put roadblocks in the way of getting the truth, unless . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo

GaryJP said:

If I face a sunset and realize it's not worth taking my camera out of the case because it will look like garbage because the sun is eating a chunk of the earth, it's too many. Especially when other cameras I can buy HAVE NO SUCH ISSUE.

Click to expand...

Seriously, I agree with your thoughts. If the X10 were to be my main cam, then it would annoy the hell out of me to be in various situations and think that the camera will not deliver (well, will deliver.. but deliver orbs). Which is why I won't be getting the X10 unless they fix this. So, take THAT Fuji!

Cheers,

Wayne
http://www.pbase.com/wayne_n