Photoline 32 ver. 17 a worthy alternative to Adobe products.

I downloaded Photoline 32 ver. 17 to take advantage of their 30 day fully functional free trial.

Photoline can be compared to Adobe Camera Raw/Lightroom with photoshop layer and mask capabilities.

Some items that are a plus for Photoline is the price 59 Euros.

The size, 80.8 MB on a MAC installation.

Mac and Windows programs are available.

Edit in RGB, Lab, HIS and CMYK.

Most of the program features are as well implemented (or better) as Photoshop.

For instance to change a brush size in Photoshop, without going to the menu bar, one must depress two keys. In photoline you click the command key and move your mouse to change the size. Your hand never leaves the mouse.

Another feature that I find pleasant and useful, is the preview window. In photoshop many of the preview windows are postage stamp sized, photoline offers you the ability to change the size of the preview window to a useful size, plus the preview wndow offers a before and after view of your edits in realtime.

Presets are are a wonderful time saver, but the lists get terribly long and unwieldy in the Adobe product. In Photoline most of the features have their own preset procedures, in other words you can have a dozen presets in the sharpening layer, a dozen in the white point layer etc. etc..

In photoshop you have 15 adjustment layers available, Photoline has 41.

I enjoy the ability to edit as I see fit from layer to layer. I might want to color correct in RBG, then use Lab for a sharpening or Shadow/Highlight layer. You can use the controls from each colorspace to your advantage, without it being a 3 to 5 five step back and forth procedure.

I've only had the program for a couple of days, and tested it for a few hours, so far the only surprises have been of the pleasant nature.

The following website has a nice list of most of the features available http://www.plugsandpixels.com/photoline.html .

All things considered it is definitely an affordable and useful program for the enthusiast and probably professional photographer/ retoucher. It is a mature and efficient program that speaks well of the two programmer brothers.

It definitely should be considered as an alternative if Adobe's new upgrade program becomes to onerous.

Photoshop for the PC only requires a single key to change to the brush size.. wonder why the Mac would require more than one?? In any event... I wouldn't trade my CS5 for anything else but if money is a concern, I'm sure there are many similar products that offer great controls for less.

One of the reasons that I recently went with PS CS5 over upgrading my current PSPX3 is that PS is so ubiquitous that you can find support, books, tutorials and tons of help at every turn. It is the overwhelming industry standard, and for me, that makes it easier to learn and to find resources and plugins that will help me improve my PP skills.

I am sure that there are other comparable programs from a feature perspective, and since PS if the main target, a lot of them are going to try to do PS a "one better" approach when it comes to some of the specs (the number of layers, for example) since that is the only way they differentiate their product and entice new users. Even though I considered other programs (and Photoline seems like a fine program), in the end, I realized that I wanted to be 100% in the mainstream. I know a lot of the PS plugins will work with PSP and other programs, but in the end, it was an easy decision for me.

I have been in the music recording industry for a long time, and when I first got into it, I standardized on the Cubase/Nuendo software platform for some of the same reasons that you are considering Photoline... less expensive, more features and bells and whistles than the industry standard, Pro Tools. In retrospect, that was a mistake for all of the reasons I listed above. I was a loyal Cubase fanboi for many, many years, and turned out some pretty decent recordings that in the end couldn't be detected from any of the Pro Tools productions, just like your photos won't be any different from the PS-edited photos, except that I always felt that I was struggling on the outside looking in. Never again.

For me, it was Photoshop all the way, warts, pricing and Adobe policies included!

Best of luck with Photoline, it sounds like it can do everything you want it to do, and at that price, it is very attractive indeed!

--
James

Hi Fuego,

no, to my knowledge, Photoline is absolutely unique with regard to the richness in "professional" features; very likely no other photoshop alternative comes even close. It is definitely not a lightroom substitute (I prefer other programs for RAW conversions of multiple pictures), but photoshop-like tools are often easier to use in Photoline. All tools work with 16-bit layers and the program runs in 32bit and 64bit versions on both Mac and PC.

The most obvious deficits of Photoline are in the marketing, translation, and user interface beautification departments.

fuego6 said:

.... I'm sure there are many similar products that offer great controls for less.

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lutz said:

Hi Fuego,

no, to my knowledge, Photoline is absolutely unique with regard to the richness in "professional" features; very likely no other photoshop alternative comes even close. It is definitely not a lightroom substitute (I prefer other programs for RAW conversions of multiple pictures), but photoshop-like tools are often easier to use in Photoline. All tools work with 16-bit layers and the program runs in 32bit and 64bit versions on both Mac and PC.

The most obvious deficits of Photoline are in the marketing, translation, and user interface beautification departments.

Click to expand...

I disagree Lutz.. have you seen Sumopaint? Its pretty darn good and very close to photoshop in what it can offer.. and its even cheaper I believe than Photoline though for Mac only right now. Serif PhotoPlus would be another contender alternative to Photoline..

Sumo Paint seems like a nice editor - for an online tool. Besides the general advantages and the disadvantages of using an online service as an image editor it does not seem to be as developed as your average desktop software and certainly not at the level of Paint Shop Pro and Serif Photo Plus. Sumo Paint seems to have no adjustment layers whatsoever and I am not sure about masking.

I do not know the latest version of PhotoPlus but my impressions from previous experiences was that Serif is not even aiming at providing any of the advanced tools mentioned in the above posts - no choice of color spaces (LAB, ...)? , no 64 bit version of the program?, color management?????. I certainly would recommend PhotoPLus over PhotoLine for beginners.

Regarding advanced editing tools, these two seem to be in different (i.e. lower) leagues - but simplicity has its advantages, too.

Sagelight is a completely different type of image editor but is the only other I know which allows for some similar ease of color manipulation as does PhotoLine.

fuego6 said:

I disagree Lutz.. have you seen Sumopaint? Its pretty darn good and very close to photoshop in what it can offer.. and its even cheaper I believe than Photoline though for Mac only right now. Serif PhotoPlus would be another contender alternative to Photoline..

Click to expand...

Yes it does and is called "The gimp" Thus far closest to photoshop and completely free. This said, i am a creative suite 5.5 user. For obvious reasons i opt for this package as it is very strong as a whole.

lutz said:

no, to my knowledge, Photoline is absolutely unique with regard to the richness in "professional" features; very likely no other photoshop alternative comes even close. It is definitely not a lightroom substitute (I prefer other programs for RAW conversions of multiple pictures), but photoshop-like tools are often easier to use in Photoline. All tools work with 16-bit layers and the program runs in 32bit and 64bit versions on both Mac and PC.

The most obvious deficits of Photoline are in the marketing, translation, and user interface beautification departments.

fuego6 said:

.... I'm sure there are many similar products that offer great controls for less.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Hi Toermalijn,

I believe there quite a lot of disadvantages when comparing GIMP to Photoline or even Photoshop. This project does not seem to progress anywhere as quickly as the "competition".

Just for example, as far as I know, GIMP still does not have adjustment layers, 16-bit layers, reliable usage of PS plugins, a 64bit version for accessing large memory, etc...

but GIMP has lots of unique GIMP-only plugins (some of them really cutting edge; if you can get them to work) and a user interface in which many items do float independently across the desktop - it was rather idiosyncratic last time I checked but it is free. In contrast to GIMP, I love the Inkscape project.

Toermalijn said:

Yes it does and is called "The gimp" Thus far closest to photoshop and completely free. This said, i am a creative suite 5.5 user. For obvious reasons i opt for this package as it is very strong as a whole.

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Doublehelix wrote:

just like your photos won't be any different from the PS-edited photos, except that I always felt that I was struggling on the outside looking in. Never again.

James:

For further clarification I do own licenses for Photoshop CS5 estended, DxO optics pro 7 elite, and Raw Developer.

Yes you are absolutely correct! A properly edited raw file will look the same no matter which program or combination of programs rendered the tif, jpeg or cmyk separations.

One of the reasons I posted my initial thoughts regarding Photoline is for the reason that you stated. It should make the participants in this forum wonder how a 59 Euro program can compete with and in many cases surpass the performance of the much higher priced Photoshop programs.

I've often read that this or that program can accomplish 90 to 95% of Photoshop's capabilities. Up until now I've never found these boasts to be true.

I've been able to further investigate Photoline and have found it to be more capable than I originally stated. For instance i thought that I would miss the Smart Object and Smart layer features of ACR and Photoshop until I realized that Photoline is basically a program that utilizes the "Smart" functions as part of its design. Your edits are always able to be changed or adjusted at anytime in your workflow and there is no special drama or procedures to be learned and remembered.

The only thing that that I miss from photoshop is the BlendIf feature, I use that quite a bit. However it seems that I've been working around this missing feature with no great loss of time or quality.

My next big test will be how Photline's actions compare to Photoshop's.

I truly believe that at the least, everyone should give Photoline a 30 day workout and see how it compares. For 59 euros purchase price and 29 euro upgrades, it just may be the most cost effective and efficient tool for high quality edits and restorations.

Thanks for your response to my original post.

Hi Tom,

the BlendIf feature exists and is called "Color Filter" in PhotoLine. I believe it is also a bit more flexible than the PS tool.

tom60634 said:

The only thing that that I miss from photoshop is the BlendIf feature, I use that quite a bit. However it seems that I've been working around this missing feature with no great loss of time or quality.

Click to expand...

Just right-click on a layer in the manager and you will find the color filter. You can use RGB, HIS channels, and a grey channel for selecting your regions of interest.

Thanks for the information and directions to the color file location.

Now to see how it works and more importantly how it compares to Photoshop.

If it works in a similar manner, and more importantly if presets can be assigned to the function, i won't have any problems with having Photoline becoming a first choice application.

It's great to see a lively discussion on photoline. Last time I posted about Photoline I felt like I was tarred and feathered for doing so.....

I've been using it since v15. I may not be as sophisticated user as most of you that have posted in this thread, but I haven't come across anything I can't do with it. If you transition from Photoshop like I did, you may have to search a bit to find some of the features and tools.

I have had several occasions to email Gerhart with questions, and he was prompt with his replies.
Also, the program loads unbelivevable fast.
Give it a whirl!
Dan
--
http://www.imageevent.com/danzpix

lutz said:

Sumo Paint seems like a nice editor - for an online tool.

Click to expand...

Sumo Paint Pro is a standalone editor.. not online only. Sumo Paint also has full support for standard non-destructive layer effects. If you have a Mac - give it a shot.. its pretty good as well.

Does Photoline have a Content Aware type feature? I find it one of the most useful features of PhotoShop. While PhotoShop is a fantastic program, it has become too expensive for my budget. I am glad to see more alternatives available.....you never know what Adobe is up to.
--
Loren Sr

V. 17 has "remove object". I haven't played with it yet.
Dan--
http://www.imageevent.com/danzpix

Loren D Sanders Sr said:

Does Photoline have a Content Aware type feature? I find it one of the most useful features of PhotoShop. While PhotoShop is a fantastic program, it has become too expensive for my budget. I am glad to see more alternatives available.....you never know what Adobe is up to.
--
Loren Sr

Click to expand...

I havent't had an opportunity to use it yet, but this is how it's described in the manual:

Remove Object

PhotoLine can remove the selection in a “smart” way. This means the
selection will be replaced by nearby parts of the image in a way, that the
removal of the selection is noticeable as little as possible. Usually it is
enough to create a selection and delete it with Remove Object. Removal is
a random-based process, so using the function repeatedly creates a different
result every time. So if you are not satisfied, simply use Remove Object
once more.

In difficult situations you have additional ways to modify the result:
• Define Neighbourhood

Page 142 The Tools in the Toolbox PhotoLine
Usually PhotoLine is searching in the whole picture for possible image
parts, that can be used for replacing the selection. But if a large part of
the image isn't well suited due to its content, that will influence the result
in a bad way. Therefore you can use Define Neighbourhood to restrict
searching to an appropriate area.

• Define Image Structure

If the object, that should be removed, is in front of a structured
background, you can use Define Image Stucture to lay down the course
of the structure. Examples for structured backgrounds are i.e. paved
paths and lawns.
For removing small parts in an image, you can use the Remove Brush (see
chapter 6.3.18), that works in a similar way.

Yes, Photoline has two tools for content-aware removal of small or large objects.

It also does the content aware scaling, "liquid scaling", or seam carving; whatever you wan to call it.

Photoshop cs6 will come this year. We'll see wich new features it will bring, i am sure some other packages will try to follow.

I can see that photoshop is getting more competition now for photo editing. For design as a whole, the creative suite is still indispensable...

I think that's why Adobe isn't too concerned about the "competition".

The fact is, that we, the customers, are concerned about prices and policies.

Adobe might shoot itself in the foot by altering upgrade policies. As it is right now, we are forced to upgrade every new version. I am quite sure a lot of people can't follow.

This will be a good opportunity for the people who are left in the dark to grasp some new software that is affordable and close enough.

The curse of being a leader in the field is that anybody will try to copy you. And of course a lot of illegal use as well.

lutz said:

Yes, Photoline has two tools for content-aware removal of small or large objects.

It also does the content aware scaling, "liquid scaling", or seam carving; whatever you wan to call it.

Click to expand...

Toermalijn said:

Photoshop cs6 will come this year. We'll see wich new features it will bring, i am sure some other packages will try to follow.

Click to expand...

It will be interesting to see how useful the new features will actually be for the majority of users, or will they be features just for the sake of justifying the upgrade fee.

Toermalijn said:

I can see that photoshop is getting more competition now for photo editing. For design as a whole, the creative suite is still indispensable...

I think that's why Adobe isn't too concerned about the "competition".

Click to expand...

It has become a brave new world, business owners and managers are becoming aware that the days of just passing on all costs, legitimate or not, to the paying customer may be coming to an end particularly if their competition has a better handle on evaluating the cost to benefit ratio of new features. We have to remember that excellent product was ( and is still being done) with much earlier versions of photoshop and other programs.

Toermalijn said:

The fact is, that we, the customers, are concerned about prices and policies.

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Price is easy enough to justify. Policy is the big concern to my way of thinking. Adobe should have let everyone know that CS5 was the last version of its previous upgrade policy. They should have also let us know what the new upgrade prices wil be. Will it now be $50.00 to keep current or $300.00. Apple's current upgrade prices of approx. $30.00 certainly makes it more sensible to upgrade each version rather than skipping every other one, as I had been doing.

Toermalijn said:

Adobe might shoot itself in the foot by altering upgrade policies. As it is right now, we are forced to upgrade every new version. I am quite sure a lot of people can't follow.

This will be a good opportunity for the people who are left in the dark to grasp some new software that is affordable and close enough.

Click to expand...

Photoline truly is affordable, however in many aspects it is more than close enough.

In fact it is in many way better specified and more importantly better implemented.

Once you become familiar and efficient with it's use ( a very short learning curve depending on your level of expertise with photo editing ) you'll see that Potoline is a computer program designed and built by/programmers/ and not by a corporate marketing committee.

Toermalijn said:

The curse of being a leader in the field is that anybody will try to copy you. And of course a lot of illegal use as well.

Click to expand...

If Adobe are truly leaders and conerned with their status as a corporate citizen they can address upgrades in more logical and cost effective manners. For instance if you have a new feature that you consider a "must have" feature, release it as a plugin with a timed free trial. Price it honestly and then let your customers (current and future) vote with their dollars, pounds, euros, yuan etc. etc. as to what they actually think of its usefullness. Let's face the fact that Photoshop is becoming the poster child for bloatware. Honestly, try to count up the " features " that you do not use or better yet did know existed.

Consider that:

Photoshop = 438.9 MB on my drive.
Photoline = 80.8 MB on my drive.

This seems to indicate that engineers (as adobe constantly refers to their employees) are not automatically efficient programmers.

Adobe = approximately 9,117 employees
Photoline = aprroximately 2 (?) employees.

In closing I would suggest that it would be to just about everyone's benefit (including Adobe's) to download the FREE, fully (just about) functional 30 day trial and give it an honest appraisal.

I would like to state that I have no vested interest in Photoline except as a customer.

I have no personal grievances against Adobe. I have honestly purchased Photoshop Elements, Lightroom2, Photoshop and 3 upgrades and inadvertantly use others (ie Flash in various browsers).