To clarify: other peoples opinions as to the image quality of the GH2 are irrelevant to me determining whether to continue using it or not. I may or may not be in a minority however, this forum is clearly a self-selecting group.
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On the verge of ditching u43s
- Thread starter warrj
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PC Wheeler
Forum Pro
J
jkrumm
Guest
Julian I suspect a lot of what you are seeing is due to the higher performance 40d combined with a high performance lens. I just got the GH2 with 20 1.7, and even compared to my E5 which has an older noisier sensor, I get more punchy and detailed shots with the E5 in many cases (also helped by good IS and the very sharp 12-60 lens). Perhaps when Panasonic comes out with the fast 12-35 that's rumored things will be different.
However, I do notice better DR than my E5, better color sensitivity too, and the 20 1.7 is nice indoors for me if I just leave it wide open. Auto iso is somewhat crappy on the GH2, but if I leave it at iso 1250 and at f1.7 I can shoot all around the house and get nice clean (for me) results.
I'd also like to see a slightly more beefed up gh2 (or 3) with larger controls. Doesn't have to be heavier.
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John Krumm
Juneau, AK
However, I do notice better DR than my E5, better color sensitivity too, and the 20 1.7 is nice indoors for me if I just leave it wide open. Auto iso is somewhat crappy on the GH2, but if I leave it at iso 1250 and at f1.7 I can shoot all around the house and get nice clean (for me) results.
I'd also like to see a slightly more beefed up gh2 (or 3) with larger controls. Doesn't have to be heavier.
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John Krumm
Juneau, AK
J
jkrumm
Guest
No, the regular 4/3 forums has had a lot too over the last couple years. But these m43 forums get that churn thing going thanks to the "second system" and "smaller system" and "unified system" phenomenon.
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John Krumm
Juneau, AK
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John Krumm
Juneau, AK
GH2 is good for high-end video, not a camcorder replacement. Get an APS-C DSLR and you'll see it's even HARDER than the GH2
Try a sony a-mount SLT: a33, 55, 65, 77 what have you. The SLT degrades the IQ a bit, but allows continuous PDAF AF, which is what consumers want.
Pros use pre-set focusing, marks on the lens to transition between scenes, etc.
Good luck.
EPM1, P14/PL25/PL45, 40-150 and other assorted legacy lenses
Try a sony a-mount SLT: a33, 55, 65, 77 what have you. The SLT degrades the IQ a bit, but allows continuous PDAF AF, which is what consumers want.
Pros use pre-set focusing, marks on the lens to transition between scenes, etc.
Good luck.
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EPM1, P14/PL25/PL45, 40-150 and other assorted legacy lenses
jeffharris
Forum Pro
There's a old saying: It is a poor workman who blames his tools.
The gear is not the problem. Just buying a nice camera and lenses guarantees nothing.
One should be able to adapt and produce good shots with almost any camera. Time, patience and some stubbornness help. Imagination and creativity are pretty important elements, too.
Finally... RTFM!
Yes, the GH2 manual is absolute garbage, but that's no excuse.
Download the PDF, search and bookmark!
I plowed through it numerous times and still do when necessary.
I've initially used Nikon Film cameras and then moved to DSLR, of course it was Nikon with a bunch of zoom. When m4/3 came out I've downsized since my Nikon system seen very little use, as it stayed at home because of the weight.
What I've discovered with m4/3 was the joy of tiny primes. But after a while I got disatisfied with the quality of photos taken with my e-p1. Lots of noise in shadows, Especially if I try to pull out detail, I found anything above iso320 unusable, as such I've invested money in quiet expensive fast primes. I've came across tiny Pentax limited lenses and an adapter.
I still wasn't happy with the DR, as such I've migrated to Pentax K5 and their Limited lenses. I've best of both words, great image quality and light system. It weights 1.7kg with my 5 limited lenses and I couldn't be happier.
I've also kept the e-p1 with 20mm f1.4 for when I want a small PnS when I'm going out.
To me it sounds like you have to do a lot more research before you commit to a system. You can't blame the system that it doesn't suit your particular needs. All you have to do is find something that works.
By the way, if I had the money, I would swap my e-p1 for x100. I think it would suit my needs better.
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http://jarek.smugmug.com
What I've discovered with m4/3 was the joy of tiny primes. But after a while I got disatisfied with the quality of photos taken with my e-p1. Lots of noise in shadows, Especially if I try to pull out detail, I found anything above iso320 unusable, as such I've invested money in quiet expensive fast primes. I've came across tiny Pentax limited lenses and an adapter.
I still wasn't happy with the DR, as such I've migrated to Pentax K5 and their Limited lenses. I've best of both words, great image quality and light system. It weights 1.7kg with my 5 limited lenses and I couldn't be happier.
I've also kept the e-p1 with 20mm f1.4 for when I want a small PnS when I'm going out.
To me it sounds like you have to do a lot more research before you commit to a system. You can't blame the system that it doesn't suit your particular needs. All you have to do is find something that works.
By the way, if I had the money, I would swap my e-p1 for x100. I think it would suit my needs better.
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http://jarek.smugmug.com
If you look at DXOMark you'll find that although the GH2 is 16MP vs the 40D's 10Mp the noise, DR and Colour are all pretty much the same. In fact if you add the 60D the curves pretty much line up. The DXOMark is from 60 to 66 for the three cameras. So it seems to me that the picture content and composition would be the thing that would set the results apart rather than the camera bodies themselves. Of course when you add the L series Canon glass you may change the "view" so to speak as the Canon glass offers more options regarding focal length in high quality glass.
Bottom line is that if you didn't need the video function and didn't mind the weight of the D40 there may not have been much to gain by switching systems. If you wanted the video and did not mind the weight then the D60 would have given you a good unit and allowed you to keep your lens and flash thus minimizing cost.
Bottom line is that if you didn't need the video function and didn't mind the weight of the D40 there may not have been much to gain by switching systems. If you wanted the video and did not mind the weight then the D60 would have given you a good unit and allowed you to keep your lens and flash thus minimizing cost.
I just checked and the sensor on the 40D is no better than the GH2. My bet is you are trying to compare a 16MP image to a 10MP image on your screen at 1:1.
Also, do you shoot RAW or jpegs? If you shoot jpegs with the GH2 you need to tweek the WB and picture settings because the default s are not good.
The reality is you should easily be able to get great pics that equal or surpase the 40D.
Also, do you shoot RAW or jpegs? If you shoot jpegs with the GH2 you need to tweek the WB and picture settings because the default s are not good.
The reality is you should easily be able to get great pics that equal or surpase the 40D.
I used DSLR and good glass for years and M43 IQ is certainly not going to be equal, especially with a 17-55 lens.IMO you would have been better off keeping what you had, but too late now.
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Time, that aged nurse,
rocked me to patience.
??
What aspect of the pictures didn't you like exactly?
photo perzon
Veteran Member
You are a serious videographer and this is a non-professional forum for still pictures.
You need a video consultant...I bet you BH Photo's sales consultants deal with this every day for real.
m4/3 cannot please all. Soon the m4/3 sensor will progress towards its potential and things will change and change. For now sometimes I get frustrated to see so much noise at ISO 1600.
But a little light changes things.
I remember a couple years ago my Nikon D700 andNikon 105AF-S 2.8 were doing so poorly in low light. Then I discovered a flash would make the picture completely better. Even though all made sense, light made the difference.
But you know what you are looking for. I don't think you will come back to m4/3, video cameras are also making huge progress and it is in a different technical world.
This forum is your hobby. You need a video forum.
You need a video consultant...I bet you BH Photo's sales consultants deal with this every day for real.
m4/3 cannot please all. Soon the m4/3 sensor will progress towards its potential and things will change and change. For now sometimes I get frustrated to see so much noise at ISO 1600.
But a little light changes things.
I remember a couple years ago my Nikon D700 andNikon 105AF-S 2.8 were doing so poorly in low light. Then I discovered a flash would make the picture completely better. Even though all made sense, light made the difference.
But you know what you are looking for. I don't think you will come back to m4/3, video cameras are also making huge progress and it is in a different technical world.
This forum is your hobby. You need a video forum.
miketala
Forum Enthusiast
with all due respect, i completely disagree. there are many professional, wonderful and highly knowledgeable people here.
Franka T.L.
Veteran Member
Julian, you've got the last statement right on the mark : the camera is just not good enough yet or rather I would state the system is not good enough yet.
And as a multiple system user, its plainly obvious to me that the SYSTEM is the key. of course the technology and implementation is very much at verge here. I have got off and test the newest of the Micro 4/3 the GX-1, and the CDAF is still good at slow , or immobile subject at good light and decent contrast. A Cloudy over cast day or low light, then it start to hunt like crazy. I would say this is the major hurdle for the mirrorless ILC, the other is the lens. I don't care how many reason it, but until the system do provide some that are quality or at the very least decent optically performing lens instead of trying to sell us lens at premium price but give us lousy optics.
In the end, though I must also state, one size just do not fit all, trying to ask one camera and one lens setup to be able to do everything well is going to be a tough call for anyone, any made.
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And as a multiple system user, its plainly obvious to me that the SYSTEM is the key. of course the technology and implementation is very much at verge here. I have got off and test the newest of the Micro 4/3 the GX-1, and the CDAF is still good at slow , or immobile subject at good light and decent contrast. A Cloudy over cast day or low light, then it start to hunt like crazy. I would say this is the major hurdle for the mirrorless ILC, the other is the lens. I don't care how many reason it, but until the system do provide some that are quality or at the very least decent optically performing lens instead of trying to sell us lens at premium price but give us lousy optics.
In the end, though I must also state, one size just do not fit all, trying to ask one camera and one lens setup to be able to do everything well is going to be a tough call for anyone, any made.
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- Franka -
gotompoes
Forum Enthusiast
The Pentax K5 is a very nice camera, some ltd lenses are a disappointment. Low light focussing with the 31mm ltd was hit and miss and my sample of the 43 ltd was poor.
The 77 mm is fantastic. I am getting better results out of my micro 4/3 prime lenses especially the 25 summilux. The iso performance of the K5 is beats the micro 4/3 system.
pocketpygmy
Leading Member
swiss army knife does not equal top-shelf japanese kitchen knife.
but, my, how convenient a swiss army knife can be sometimes...
but, my, how convenient a swiss army knife can be sometimes...
If you are too impatient to learn to how to properly use the GH2 as a videography camera (as opposed to a camcorder):
Try shooting in Shutter Priority 1/60 of a second at a wide angle (14-20mm) using manual focus set to enable enough depth of field to keep the subjects in focus "enough." Thusly you emulate what your shitty camcorder is doing but still keeping the advantages of a big sensor in terms of high ISO capability and a relatively shallow depth-of-field.
The sensor in the 40D is just a couple of years old which is not that much. It is also a 10Mpix sensor as opposed to the 14Mpix (effective) and 50% smaller sensor in the GH2.
Sorry to point out the obvious.
I used to have a 450D/Xsi and a 5D Mk II (along with Tokina 11-16/2.8, 17-55/2.8, 28/1.8, 200/2.8L etc.).
Yes, there is a difference in the CONSUMER perception -- mostly over-saturated colors and boosted micro-contrast. Some companies, like Canon and Olympus, chose to invest in research and implementation of CONSUMER-pleasing tweaks.
Others, like Panasonic, chose not to.
Search these forums of how to tweak the jpegs or raw (e.g. applying curves) to achieve the "Canon" or "Olympus" look.
For anybody else of us, the faithful reproduction of Panasonic is a good starting point.
Now, if you are talking about a limited dynamic range, then you are right. Panasonic HAS to improve it, especially the blown highlights, better soon than late.
Compared to a 580EX -- yes.
Compared to a 430EXII (which I have) -- no.
Recycling time is indeed slower on the 360 (8 seconds against 5 on the 430EX) but this is due to the 2 batteries against 4. Once you learn to time yourself and not "shoot and pray" you'll be fine.
Please compare apples to apples (FL-50 against 580EX).
jeffharris
Forum Pro
This is when you focus manually.
There's an array of excellent native M4/3 lenses available today. Aside from the 7-14mm, they're all primes. 12mm, 14mm, 20mm, 25mm (Leica and Voigtländer), 45mm (Oly and Pana/Leica macro). Good lenses are not cheap.
M4/3 also has the ability to inexpensively adapt nearly every lens made in the past 50+ years! This is a big deal given that many of us have lenses we purchased years ago or got from friends or family members. It's a great way to extend the system.
True enough. But since NO camera or camera system is perfect and buying into one entails consciously (hopefully) making a number of trade-offs and compromises, one either approaches these supposed shortcomings creatively and with an open mind, or gives up and keeps looking.
jeffharris
Forum Pro
Brilliantly put!
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