Question for Amateurs/Enthusiasts on camera choices

Hello All

Hope everyone is having a good christmas.

Have a question. I consider myself a person for whom photography is a hobby & keen to learn more about it but one where it cannot suck up too much resources both by means of time and money spent outside of resources assigned for personal hobbies

We often read about non-pros describing as having dslr for serious work and a PEN or advanced compact for travel. I always wonder how to segregate situations that fall into the 2 categories above

In my case, the only opportunities I get to do photography is while travelling or while doing one of the walks in summer. I do try to take the camera ( esp the pen ) with me while going out in general.

And I am beginning to think why not get a XZ-1 as almost equivalent to my ep1 + kit lens for the most part and has enough manual controls to shoot in Aperture mode. I started with a E 520 which I still love for its colour rendition and is very usable in good light and when auto focus is of importance ( the ep1 is worse than a compact in that respect ). Whilst the PEN is a lot lot better to get keepers in low light ( upto ISO 1600 ) with the kit lens - the 520 really sucks at ISO 800 even at small viewing sizes

Now my question is how do enthusiasts and non-pros construe opportunities for photography as serious work needing DSLRs versus situations that are less demanding where an advanced compact with controls is sufficient

2 things I can think of

1. Being a part of a photography club and doing special things like birding or an event ( non professionally )

2. Planning to cover an event or visiting a place with the only intent as photography

Right now hypothetically I am starting to think except for the OM 50 F1.8 - I am mostly a kit lens person in the last 2 1/2 yrs that I have taken up photography as a serious hobby, so why not dump the DSLR & PEN and just get the xz-1 with its fantastic lens Ofcourse I would miss the reach of 40 - 150 so this is all hypothetical, but one of the arguments going for xz-1 is the ability to add a VF2 or 3 and the ability to carry it around in my work bag - PEN does feel a bit heavy with the kits lens and the converters + OM 50 ( which is my carry around presently ) and I miss the autofocus on the OM lens many times.

I understand these things vary from individual to individual and what one needs and mileages could vary vastly

But I am still interested to hear your views.

Thanks
Vidya

I decide which camera more on the basis of probability of use than anything else. If I am not sure I will see something of interest, I carry the compact. If I am pretty sure I will see something of interest, I take an E-3 or E-5 and most likely needed lens. If I don't think I will be shooting, I still have the cell phone.

I have spent so much money on good camera gear...I'm going to use it when I can!!

Joe

As an amateur, you don't have to worry about client demands, so for the most part, the only one you have to please is yourself

For scouting an area or even you will be covering later, a compact is fine- unobtrusive, quick to use, and no worries about not getting the perfect shot as you're only taking reference pix.

Birding? I wouldn't bother w/o a good long lens- 400mm (FF equivalent) or longer, and as fast as you can afford. Any compacts give you that?

Photography club? I guess it's going to depend on the club and the assignment as to what is needed.

Taking to work? since I don't really have a place to keep a bigger camera, I'll just take the pocket cam to work if I want to take something... but if they're expecting me to cover an event, I'll take the 520 and appropriate lens.

The morning walk? It's rare I don't take the 520 with me, but the lens I take varies w my mood and what I'm expecting- anything from the 9-18mm to a 600mm mirror to an OM 50mm+ 2x macro converter, although the 12-60 is my most used lens, followed by the 70-300mm.

For me, a compact won't do as my only camera- I just can't hold one steady enough. Even a superzoom won't satisfy (I found the 10x range of the C2100UZ limiting when that was my main camera) so I prefer something I can hang a bunch of lenses on... and something I can hold w a reasonably long lens mounted (ruling out most of the PENs to date)

ISO 800 on the 520 is not that bad, although I normally keep it to 400 or lower. If I covered a lot of low light events rather than just the annual office party, I would definitely want something that comfortably handles higher ISOs. But most of my shooting is daytime, or long exposure night shots, so high ISO is not critical to me.

However, better AF is important to me, and I plan to upgrade to an E-30 as budget permits.
--
Art P
"I am a creature of contrast,
of light and shadow.
I live where the two play together,
I thrive on the conflict"

Joe Lynch said:

I decide which camera more on the basis of probability of use than anything else. If I am not sure I will see something of interest, I carry the compact. If I am pretty sure I will see something of interest, I take an E-3 or E-5 and most likely needed lens. If I don't think I will be shooting, I still have the cell phone.

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Thats a good decision point. I tend to take both cameras + all lenses in a big bag on all my holiday trips as I expect to see something interesting.

Joe Lynch said:

I have spent so much money on good camera gear...I'm going to use it when I can!!

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couldnt agree more Thanks for your comments/ideas Joe

Vidya

Art_P said:

As an amateur, you don't have to worry about client demands, so for the most part, the only one you have to please is yourself

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Exactly - very true and I am just only asking this question for 2 reasons

1. How do hobbyists create opportunities to use different types of gear

2. Help work out consolidation of what gear I'd need ( I perfectly understand this will depend on my needs )

Art_P said:

Birding? I wouldn't bother w/o a good long lens- 400mm (FF equivalent) or longer, and as fast as you can afford. Any compacts give you that?

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Yeah if I ever take up birding I have to lay my hands on the 50 - 200 or atleast the 70 - 300

Art_P said:

Photography club? I guess it's going to depend on the club and the assignment as to what is needed.

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again never been part of one and wouldnt mind being part of one ...

Art_P said:

Taking to work? since I don't really have a place to keep a bigger camera, I'll just take the pocket cam to work if I want to take something... but if they're expecting me to cover an event, I'll take the 520 and appropriate lens.

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This is where the smaller compacts are beginning to make a lot of sense

Art_P said:

For me, a compact won't do as my only camera- I just can't hold one steady enough. Even a superzoom won't satisfy (I found the 10x range of the C2100UZ limiting when that was my main camera) so I prefer something I can hang a bunch of lenses on... and something I can hold w a reasonably long lens mounted (ruling out most of the PENs to date)

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True thats a good point I havent seen what sort of real shutter speeds that compacts like xz-1 can offer and what the hand holding threshold is ( dont really use tripods )

Art_P said:

ISO 800 on the 520 is not that bad, although I normally keep it to 400 or lower. If I covered a lot of low light events rather than just the annual office party, I would definitely want something that comfortably handles higher ISOs. But most of my shooting is daytime, or long exposure night shots, so high ISO is not critical to me.

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Yeah its not that bad, but in uk weather combined with the strong AA filter & shadow noise, its very hard to make good detail out of it . but in some indoor situations it can be useful. I generally keep it at 400 and below

Art_P said:

However, better AF is important to me, and I plan to upgrade to an E-30 as budget permits.

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That thought has crossed my mind but as I pointed out in another thread - the lack of olympus direction is not helping .... other option being to switch to another system which I am not keen on - at the moment mainly due to being used to the olympus system and colour filter, dust reduction and size / performance price ratio

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Art

Vidya

NewOly520User said:

Now my question is how do enthusiasts and non-pros construe opportunities for photography as serious work needing DSLRs versus situations that are less demanding where an advanced compact with controls is sufficient

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What are those situations?

Low light = need a better camera. Good light = compact is fine.

Lenses? Birds, extreme wide angle = choose a camera based on lens needs. Kit lens focal length range = compact is fine (in good light)

Performance needed (many frames per second, etc. although these are pro features that your question doesn't address) = better camera needed. Ordinary snapshots = compact is fine.

bobbarber said:

NewOly520User said:

Now my question is how do enthusiasts and non-pros construe opportunities for photography as serious work needing DSLRs versus situations that are less demanding where an advanced compact with controls is sufficient

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What are those situations?

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Thats what I am trying to figure out on how people use their cameras. I normally take my slr these days only if I have to use the 40-150 as it offers better grip and better AF ...

bobbarber said:

Low light = need a better camera. Good light = compact is fine.

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True unless creativity like DOF is needed

bobbarber said:

Lenses? Birds, extreme wide angle = choose a camera based on lens needs. Kit lens focal length range = compact is fine (in good light)

Click to expand...

bobbarber said:

Performance needed (many frames per second, etc. although these are pro features that your question doesn't address) = better camera needed. Ordinary snapshots = compact is fine.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your thoughts bob

Vidya

Over the last ten years, I have upgraded my gear several times. I usually keep the old gear instead of selling it. So, I am faced with the choice of what to take. It was a lot simpler when I had just the C-2100UZ, and I didn't have to worry about the choice.

In terms of what gear to take, it depends on what the circumstances are.

• Sometimes, I want to go to family events, and not be obviously packing a camera. Either I'm not planning to take pictures, or picture taking is a minor part of the event that carrying a big rig would spoil things. In the past, I would use my SP-550uz super zoom or E-P2 with 14-42mm lens, as these would just barely fit in the pocket of my kakkes or a jacket pocket. On the US black friday sale, I picked up a VG-120 pocket camera for $60, for use on our Disneyworld trip before Christmas. It was nice several days not to have the weight on the larger camera(s) and lenses, and in terms of Disney, being able to skip the bag check. While my cellphone has a camera in it, I never use it for pictures I want to share, but I do use it to photograph ads and specifications, so that I have it available later.
• Sometimes I just want to wander the streets of Boston or other places, and just take a single camera on my shoulder, and no bag. Here a super zoom (previously my C-2100UZ, SP-550UZ, now my E-P2 with 14-150mm lens) is the ticket. I usually will include an extra battery and memory card in my pocket. For sentimental reasons, I sometimes take my ten year old C-2100UZ back out, as this is pretty perfect for the focal range of the camera. Here, carrying too much gear or too big of a camera tends to call attention to yourself. If you point a 50-200mm at anybody, they know you are taking their picture, and will instantly change their behaviour.
• I do try to think whether I'm going to need higher zoom or wide angle, and if so pack the DSLRs, with the appropriate lenses (always 14-54mm, 11-22mm if I'm going wide, 50-200mm if I'm going telephoto, or both if I will be doing mixed shooting). If I know I'm trying for the max distance, I will pack my longest range combo (70-300mm + EC-14), but I generally prefer the 50-200mm without/with the EC-14 for better image quality (the main time I use this is to capture some cranes whose nest is far enough away from the road, that I still need to crop the image to the center along with the long lens to get the shot).
• If I expect rain, snow, or I'm going on splash rides at amusement parks, the lesser cameras stay home, and now it is the E-5 with 14-54mm lens.
• If I'm going to be shooting both wide and telephoto, with very little time to think about changing lenses, I will carry two cameras, one with the 14-54mm mounted, and the other with the 50-200mm + EC-14 mounted. In theory, I could add a third body with the 11-222mm, but two bodies are hard enough to handle without adding a third. It is nice if the two bodies can use the same batteries, memory cards, and have the same lens mount. You have to have used each camera enough that muscle memory will take over. The pros will typically use two identical bodies, just so they don't have to think about changing positions of buttons, while most amateurs will upgrade their camera and use the older body as the second camera. If you don't need fast focusing, a superzoom can take the place of a second body. Note, when you are carrying multiple cameras, you instantly get tagged as a photogeek, which may or may not be helpful.
• I generally try to carry an external flash with the camera, and usually try to remember to pack in the Demb flip-it to modify the flash.
• I've gotten into steampunk recently, and now when I go to steampunk events, I try to disguise my cameras as press cameras with bellows, from the 1930's (see my icon photo). In the latest generations, I am building the box around a particular camera and lens.
• If I'm going to be shooting indoors where flash would be disruptive, I have to pick bodies and lenses for low light work. Now, I tend to pick the E-P2 with Panasonic 20mm, or the E-P2/E-5 with the 14-54mm lens.

My usual bag is my Domke ruggedwear F-5XZ bag, which is large enough to hold one DSLR body (without the battery grip), 14-54mm lens, 50-200mm + EC-14 lens, and either 11-22mm lens or Metz 48 AF-1 flash. Recently, I was able to stuff 2 DSLR bodies and 2 lenses in the bag just barely. I do have larger bags, but the trouble with them is you tend to fill the bags with gear, and it can get heavy by the end of the day.

As for shooting opportunities, I would say, don't try to be a jack of all trades. Find something that interests you and shoot pictures of that, refining your gear over time. As you become proficient, then branch out. I tend to get bored after going on a particular trend for a bit and change.

I should mention, that while I have a lot of gear, gear in and of itself does not make the picture. All the fancy gear gives me is the ability to take pictures under more trying circumstances. You can still take boring pictures with fancy gear. But a lot of my favourite shots could have been taken with most any camera (depending on the focal length, etc.). What matters in the end, is there a connection between the viewer of the photograph and the photo itself.

One thing that I do is maintain a folder of favourites for the year, which I use at the end of the year to make calendars for friends and family. However, the problem can be they will expect a calendar each year (two years ago, I wasn't motivated that much, until my wife basically said her mother was expecting her calendar, and since mom is a 4th degree black belt in karate, I made the calendar).

Like you I'm an enthusiast/hobbyist. For that reason I have to consider a few points - my photos are not necessarily critical, and I don't make any income from them

But... having said that, I take pictures for my own enjoyment, and for my own needs that is to be able to take the best quality pictures I can afford.

I could very easily work equally well with a compact/bridge camera, indeed a little while ago I was in fact considering such a switch. Less equipment to carry about, no need to choose a lens, much less faffing about.

Now I have the E-1, I feel that I couldn't part with it. Sure it's heavy, and I have to decide what lens to stick on it any time, but I'm prepared to work with that to get better images to work with.

See, because I do have the time, and my time is my own, I can afford to spend extra effort post processing to bring out less than perfect pictures, and working with Raws from a DSLR makes that much easier.

I tend to go out and about, and takes the camera with me, and I simply shoot what I see.

FWIW, I also want a 70-300 to complete my collection of equipment, but overall I do manage very well with the two kit lenses and a couple of legacy lenses - at the moment if I want extra reach over the 40-150, I use an old Soligor 300mm. It's hard to use being a full 300mm size, but it can get a really good shot from time to time (it's worth taking out on a bright day). So you don't have to buy expensive digital lenses.

My thought is, and what finally made my mind up, if you have to ask whether you need a DLSR or not, probably means that you'd just not be happy without one. I know I wouldn't

I could manage OK with a compact, but not when you could buy an E-1 a 14-42, and a 40-150 which'll give you a better than average setup, and get results that are unmatched by almost anything else - no other DSLR brand could come close to this for the same image quality at the price - and some compacts cost more than this too.

However, only you can decide what's best for your needs. If you have to pick one camera, then you need to pick the one that you'd use the most given your normal circumstances.

--
Andy Hewitt

Normally my camera choices are three Olympus DSLR cameras with attached lenses in two separate side bags. I'm using the E-500 and E-510 cameras. I do this so that I don't have to change lenses. I'm much more apt to take a wide range of photos, because there's little hesitation of what lens I should use; I just quickly grab the camera/lens combination. My zoom range is 28mm EFL to 600mm EFL, so that's plenty of room to take a variety of pictures.

I really don't like to specialize in one type of photography. So everything is mostly open for me. Here's some of the subjects I find interesting. A lot of these require having a telephoto lens, like the flowers and insects for the type of pictures I take.

1) Landscapes and scenery
2) Insects
3) Flowers
4) People (especially at people events)
5) Birds and other wildlife
6) Our annual air show
7) Statues, bridges, and architecture

It's somewhat common I show pictures from all three cameras in a series like this.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1008&message=40106017

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1008&message=39672912

I know carrying three DSLR cameras around may not be everyone's "cup of tea", but certainly two of them with attached lenses might be an idea. The Olympus DSLR cameras are relatively small and lightweight so I take advantage of that. These work better than the PENs in my opinion, since they all have built-in viewfinders and the lens choices are affordable; this arrangement works just fine for me. I'm looking outside Olympus for an upgrade since they abandoned the E-xx and E-xxx series cameras. But I am in no hurry...just enjoy reading about all of those relatively affordable high ISO performance 18mp to 24mp DSLR (non-Olympus) cameras that are available.

If you have any questions, please let me know. I take about ten thousand photos each year as a hobby. I hope that helps.

NewOly520User said:

Now my question is how do enthusiasts and non-pros construe opportunities for photography as serious work needing DSLRs versus situations that are less demanding where an advanced compact with controls is sufficient

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try this out:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=40135886

It is non-threatening, you can participate when you have time, it forces you to go out and take pictures outside of your comfort zone, it allows you to see how other people using similar gear handle the subject, commenting on other pictures helps you to understand another photog's viewpoint. I think most people who have participated would say that overall it has helped improve their photography. You are very welcome to participate - just do the Exhibition galleries if you do not think you are ready to moderate.

--
Thanks,
brent

http://lossing.zenfolio.com/