FF Alpha-NEX coming out!

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-sony-approves-the-launch-the-new-hyrbid-alphanex-mount-camera-sort-of-fullframe-nex-7/

sounds to me that sony likes the NEX concept but is lazy to make E-mount lenses. so they're going to make a NEX7-like SLT-DSLR & capable of using both mounts (but who's going to use E-mount once they have A-mount options?)
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kev777zero said:

sounds to me that sony likes the NEX concept but is lazy to make E-mount lenses. so they're going to make a NEX7-like SLT-DSLR & capable of using both mounts (but who's going to use E-mount once they have A-mount options?)

Click to expand...

I think your way off, you have a-mount options on NEX right now.

Sounds to me like they want to please everybody. A mount means more bulk, fullframe means more bulk - people buy e mount to avoid bulk.

So it seems to me like it'll be a camera which can operate as a small(er) e-mount camera when needed, and as a full a mount camera when that is required. much like the nex now with the le2-adapter, just fullframe.

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Geir Eivind Mork said:

Sounds to me like they want to please everybody. A
.. Camille pissarro

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thats a good thing right

I thought the reason for the NEX format was for DSLR quality in a smaller, lighter package.

Going full frame is just making everything bigger, climbing back up to the size of a normal DSLR, what's the point.
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Geir Eivind Mork said:

Sounds to me like they want to please everybody. A mount means more bulk, fullframe means more bulk

Click to expand...

How does full-frame mean more bulk?

The larger sensor itself probably weights a few grams more than an aps-c chip. It might make the 7 body a bit taller, not necessarily more wider.

A-mount means more bulk?

Sony's own A-mount (the first one) weights 100g and is stuffed with useless plastic inside.

I would love to see it, even if the camera was a little bigger! I got big hands and while my NEX7 feels better it could be a little bigger with out hurting my feelings.
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My first thoughts on this were: this is absurd, it can't be done. Then I remembered my reaction to the LA-EA2 rumor.

If it's going to be done I can think of 3 ways:

1. Slide an optical element in the light path to adjust for differences in flange distance
2. Physically move the sensor 3cm depending on the lens attached
3. Have a collapsable lens mount

The last option ought to be do-able. The others are just too messy and/or compromised.
It would require on-sensor PDAF, but this is probably coming soon anyway.

Ask yourself this question: would you want this camera? The answer for me is a big "yes" but only if I could afford it, and it wasn't too heavy.

I think this rumour is semi-plausible.

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TBH, I'd rather just see a compact A99 styled like the Nex7. I see no point in using E-mount lenses in cropped mode on a FF sensor - rather simply have separate cameras.

The current NEX specs call for APSc only. So, the new camera is basically an FF mirrorless camera with a native E mount.

But, when you mount E lenses on it, it uses the APSc crop. When you mount A lenses on it (via adapter), it uses the full frame (if youre using a FF lens).

Hopefully you can force it to use the full frame when firing without lens (ie. third party lens).

Something like this in a VG20 type body would be killer for video.

kev777zero said:

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-sony-approves-the-launch-the-new-hyrbid-alphanex-mount-camera-sort-of-fullframe-nex-7/

sounds to me that sony likes the NEX concept but is lazy to make E-mount lenses. so they're going to make a NEX7-like SLT-DSLR & capable of using both mounts (but who's going to use E-mount once they have A-mount options?)
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Click to expand...

but isn't a NEX7 w/ an EVF & a translucent mirror for PDAF literally the same thing as an SLT-DSLR? you can pretty much call it an alpha SLT that you can mount E-mount lenses on. but there's barely any E-mount lenses to begin with!

I think the biggest issue merging a mirrorless system & a DSLR is AF. once CDAF can rival PDAF, all DSLR or SLTs can get substituted by mirrorless.
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Simply selling the camera as a kit with the LEA-2 (probably improved in some way) already fitted to the camera would cover the mount part of this rumour.

What is really of interest is to be able to use 35mm rangefinder and SLR lenses on a 35mm (or near 35mm) size sensor. Assuming they go up to at least 36 Mpixels, the results from Leica lenses should be extremely good.

Yes, we will need faster computers with bigger hard drives. Most of us update our computers every few years anyway.

The Millenniata Blu-Ray disks should help, too.

kev777zero said:

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-sony-approves-the-launch-the-new-hyrbid-alphanex-mount-camera-sort-of-fullframe-nex-7/

sounds to me that sony likes the NEX concept but is lazy to make E-mount lenses. so they're going to make a NEX7-like SLT-DSLR & capable of using both mounts (but who's going to use E-mount once they have A-mount options?)
--

Click to expand...

A user might want to put an E-mount "pancake" lens on the camera for walking around, while using bigger lenses in the studio or for sports etc.

Sily, since you have this already, basically.

Put a FF sensor in an NEX body. When you add the LAE2 you are using the whole sensor. When you are not, you are using the crop factor of the E Mount.

Don't see what is so hard to understand. This is basically the ONLY way i can see to do what they are talking about.

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I'd get that for use with M-mount primes, if they do the angled microlens thing.

kev777zero said:

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-sony-approves-the-launch-the-new-hyrbid-alphanex-mount-camera-sort-of-fullframe-nex-7/

sounds to me that sony likes the NEX concept but is lazy to make E-mount lenses. so they're going to make a NEX7-like SLT-DSLR & capable of using both mounts (but who's going to use E-mount once they have A-mount options?)

Click to expand...

And what third party lens maker will develop lenses for both mounts when a single mount can serve both markets? I like the concept, but there's two issues: third party lens development; and the size issue. One of the major attractions of the NEX platform is small size. If you use Alpha mount lenses, the size advantage is somewhat obviated, so why bother?

Not sure if this is a positive thing, yet.

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-------------------------------------------------
'Hit Refresh if pix do not appear. Flaky ISP at work.'

Here's the real rub.

What we don't need is a FF compact camera. This would mean a deep flange depth and larger lenses to accomodate the larger sensor. The DSLR market is already taking care of that need and doing it quite well. If this is what you need, then this is the type of camera you need.

Now, what we really need are:

High-quality lenses for the E mount.
Several FAST primes
A good 8mm - 18mm wide (which would overcome the need for FF for many)

There is a myth about the benefits of FF sensors from the past history and desire to use 35mm lenses designed for film cameras. Now with new lenses, new mounts, etc. we are not bound by this desire. In fact the 1.5 crop can be a major benefit as you generally don't have to deal with soft edges/corners like on many FF sensor/lens combos.

Micro 4/3rds has some GREAT lenses. The problem is the sensor size is just a bit too small for serious work (too much noise and focal length multiplier of 2x is just a bit too long for the wide side).

Once their are great lenses for the NEX, who is really going to care about FF? Also, do you think an A mount NEX could possibly be well-balanced?
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while I do think APS-C is enough, your argument about NEX sensor size being good enough in comparison to FF is exactly the same argument from folks at m4/3 about their sensor sizes being ideal/best of both worlds/etc...
the more the options the better IMHO!

Peter Sills said:

Here's the real rub.

What we don't need is a FF compact camera. This would mean a deep flange depth and larger lenses to accomodate the larger sensor. The DSLR market is already taking care of that need and doing it quite well. If this is what you need, then this is the type of camera you need.

Now, what we really need are:

High-quality lenses for the E mount.
Several FAST primes
A good 8mm - 18mm wide (which would overcome the need for FF for many)

There is a myth about the benefits of FF sensors from the past history and desire to use 35mm lenses designed for film cameras. Now with new lenses, new mounts, etc. we are not bound by this desire. In fact the 1.5 crop can be a major benefit as you generally don't have to deal with soft edges/corners like on many FF sensor/lens combos.

Micro 4/3rds has some GREAT lenses. The problem is the sensor size is just a bit too small for serious work (too much noise and focal length multiplier of 2x is just a bit too long for the wide side).

Once their are great lenses for the NEX, who is really going to care about FF? Also, do you think an A mount NEX could possibly be well-balanced?
--
Peter Sills
Digital Focus
http://www.digitalfocus.net
http://www.focusstudios.com

Click to expand...

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Peter Sills said:

What we don't need is a FF compact camera.

Click to expand...

"We"?

Well, the obvious method would be to simply bundle a tweaked LA-EA2 and have the camera go into crop mode when it detects an APS-C lens -- which would be perfect. Why? That would mean that an adapted lens that has no A/E-mount chip can and should default to full frame!

seachicken2000 said:

If it's going to be done I can think of 3 ways:

1. Slide an optical element in the light path to adjust for differences in flange distance
2. Physically move the sensor 3cm depending on the lens attached
3. Have a collapsable lens mount

Click to expand...

The SLT mirror is the issue here... where does it go when you're E-mount? I suppose it could flip/slide out of the way, but if it is SLT for A-mount, it has to go somewhere.

I also just spent a few moments cross-fitting A and E mounts. It appears possible to have a hybrid flange that is both A and E. The biggest annoyances are the electrical contacts and A-mount mechanical screw-drive and aperture mechanisms.

I'll add another bizarre option to the list: transform the flange and use a secondary APS-C sensor for E-mount lenses. Think NEX meets A350. The secondary sensor could move into the optical path, have the path deflected to it, or literally be in an SLT-reflected path all the time.

A few more notes:

• I would be happy enough without the SLT mirror and using contrast detect autofocus. There also are various ways sensor-based autofocus can do phase detection (including some computational photography research I've been doing that can use a conventional sensor).

• Until in-camera computational photography tricks can do as well as sensor-shift anti-shake, guess what the body needs.... Honestly, the multi-shot processing is pretty good in NEX, but single-shot "blind" deconvolution is a potentially viable technology. For example, the motion tracking that controls sensor shift could instead simply record a path during exposure, encoded with the raw image, that would allow non-blind deconvolution to remove motion blur.

• The camera needs to support tethered operation. Support for in-camera apps, as I've suggested many times, would be highly desirable. Really cool if this can all work with bidirectional 802.11 wireless (perhaps via a wireless SD card -- a great hack that sort-of works now with CHDK on Canon PowerShots).

• In-camera GPS is cool too. Worthwhile even if it just set the clock.

• Various UI changes are needed. Highest priority for me is actually better support for telling the camera about unchipped lenses for EXIF, anti-shake, vignetting and distortion correction, etc.

• I know some people really care about camera and lens size, but a slightly larger body housing a 54MP FF sensor is absolutely fine. Oh yeah. You folks do realize that the same pixel density that gets you 24MP APS-C gets you 54MP FF, right? The 1.5X crop factor is the linear crop; pixel count goes with area, so it would not be a measly 36MP....

So, the big question is if delays in shipping NEX-7 will cause many of us to instead wait for Sony's FF version....

Why would Sony bring out a FF NEW? We can only guess. My guess is this:

The A-mount has an electronic-mechanical specification, the E-mount is purely electronic. As an electronic company Sony is bound to prefer the E-mount and to view the A-mount as essentially obsolete. The E-Mount makes UW lens design easier, and it can take almost all lenses from other camera makers without degrading the image with a lensed adapter. However, Sony faces the problem that most of its in-use cameras and lenses are A-mount. So a combo mount would seem to be the solution in the medium term. If this going to support all A-mount lenses, it suggests to me that Sony is going to provide on-sensor PDAF as many A-mount lenses are unsuitable for CDAF.

OK, but why FF cameras. Partly prestige, partly for the knock-on marketing effect if well-known pros are seen using them. These cameras would also support all the Sony and other FF lenses, which would include some of the best in the world. Also, without mirror-box, pentaprism, separate PD sensor and probably no FP shutter, Sony would be able to produce them at a market-attractive price point.

As for the size counter-argument. I have a full frame camera that is a bit deeper and higher than the C3 (but then it does have a mirror-box and 100% view pentaprism) but is much smaller than my A580. So the FF NEX would be a bit larger than the NEX-7 but still much much smaller than existing FF cameras. And if size is the most important criterion, then buy a C3, or even better a J1.

One thing has puzzled me since the first NEX cameras came out. Sony claimes that they were intended as transition cameras for compact camera upgraders - smallest and simplest APS-C cameras possible, and that they were surprised when large numbers of enthusiasts started to buy them. If this is so, why did Sony design the E-mount with a diameter large enough for FF??

kev777zero said:

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-sony-approves-the-launch-the-new-hyrbid-alphanex-mount-camera-sort-of-fullframe-nex-7/

sounds to me that sony likes the NEX concept but is lazy to make E-mount lenses. so they're going to make a NEX7-like SLT-DSLR & capable of using both mounts (but who's going to use E-mount once they have A-mount options?)
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http://www.wix.com/drkevinlyu/photography

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