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Am I the only one who wishes Nikon would produce a full frame slr camera?

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Jason Busch said:
Ger Bee,

You would actually spend 8K on a camera that will be extinct in a
year or less? I would get the 14n (don't laugh) and keep your
lenses. Or wait for the upcoming D2 or D2h.
Click to expand...
The 14n is slowly creeping up in price. The EOS 1Ds is slowly creeping down in price. In the end, the price gap between the 14n and EOS 1Ds won't be as great as it is now. And you'll be getting a much better camera with the EOS 1Ds. (The fact that you have to tell people not to laugh says a lot.) By then, maybe Nikon will finally bring out the D2 or D2H, but when? A year later?

Also, with regards to camera "extinction", the EOS 1Ds is already giving you the autofocus and handling performance of an EOS 1V with the image output of a medium format camera. I certainly could live with that for a very long time without any desire to upgrade! Other than those wanting something faster than 3 fps, I think most people could live with it, too.
 
I've just assessed how much money I'd get for my Nikon gear and it looks like I'll maybe get about £4000 for it. Considering I probably spent over £10000 on equipment it's not much.

The £4000 I get will be enough for me to get 6 canon lenses that I'll need. That still leaves me having to fork out for the 1DS body...

Oh, how I wish I was rich :(

Karl
Karl Grambow said:
Unless some kind of idea of what Nikon are coming up with is made
available. But it's not just this. It wasn't long ago that Canon
released the 1D and in a short space of time they release the 1Ds.

By the time Nikon announce their new offering (if there is a new
offering) I wouldn't be surprised to see Canon announcing their 2D
(or whatever their next evolution will be called).

So Nikon not only has to quickly come up with something that
matches the 1Ds but I think they might need to offer something that
surpasses it, otherwise they'll be forever lagging behind. In my
opinion anyway. Ok, forever is a long time. :).

Karl
Doglover said:
I just read the Canon 1DS review of Phil's. I can not help but
want it, but it is way out of my price range. I am new to digital
slr photography and have only had my D100 for 3 months. However,
since I have already spent a small fortune on Nikon glass and have
read a little about the advantages and minor disadvatages a full
frame sensor in a digital slr I believe I really would want a
camera with a full frame sensor so I could use my lenses as they
were designed. What am I supposed to do? Am I going to want to
sell the lenses I have now to buy Nikon's new glass designed for
the 1.5 cropping factor? Since I am new to digital slr photography
and I have no real loyalty to any particular manufacturer, I almost
feel that if Nikon does not produce a full frame somewhat
affordable digital slr with similar flexebility to the Canon 1DS, I
will have to seriouly consider dumping Nikon.
Even as a beginner, Canon's technological superiority seems to be
becomming clearer and clearer all the time. I am not trying to
rock the boat or or put Nikon down. This is just how I feel and I
was wondering if I was the only one. I could be totally wrong.
Sincerely,
Ross
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/grambowk/latest_stuff
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/grambowk/latest_stuff
 
………… I wrote a long reply to this and then deleted it.

Short answer is an unexpected development was revealed to me, which may make it economically viable for my dealer to supply Canon pro gear as an agent at wholesale prices, Nikon have not renewed his agency last year and Kodak are not offering agency privileges as had been expected from negotiations last November.

My dealer supplies all the local media and we are an isolated strongpoint of Nikon users ~ if my dealer sells Canon now as aggressively, we’ll all switch ~ sure as eggs are eggs. That’s a tidy piece of business.

Plus I want user downloadable firmware, that nonsense from Nikon was simply insulting.
 
.............. the Nikon gear should be holding its price better the fact that three reports show such a miserable price already for Nikon is depressing, it’s price can only go lower.

Is it the general economic slump or Nikon specific?

Anyone?
 
Well, even as a full-bloded Canon-afficionado, I must say that you Nikon'ians must calm youself now - that is - the ones of you that are fealing a bit uneasy at the moment.

First of all, Kodak soon brings you a camera that surpasses the resolution of the 1Ds, that is a known fact. How well it will work is not know yet of cause, but still. And even with the new DX lenses Nikon brough out, it it not given that Niikon will never produce a full frame dSLR that outperformes the 1Ds.

Whoever sits on the technology crown will always be a moving target. It used to be Nikon, now it is Canon, but it might be Nikon once again in the future. If it turns that way, wouldn't it be a pitty having spend all those $$$ for the switch???

--
Kjeld Olesen
http://www.acapixus.dk
 
I'm not really sure to be honest. I don't think it's necessarily Nikon specific but I will say that Canon have been clever in their delivery of their latest digital SLRs. They have delivered very few models (initially) of their products to market, which has created a huge demand for their cameras. Because there is this demand their prices seem to be sticking.

Admittedly I don't have that much equipment so £4000 might be good. To give you better idea of what my equipment is I'll give you the list so you can judge for yourself whether £4000 (this is about $6000) is a fair assessment.

D1X (plus 3 batteries, charger and ac adapter) - 1.5 years old.
F100 (plus Mb14 grip) - 2.5 years old.
50mm f/1.4 - good condition.
18-35mm f/2.8 - excellent condition.
85mm f/1.4 - as new (I'll be sad to part with this).
105mm f/2.5 micro. good condition
180mm f/2.8 - ok condition (optics are fine)
Sigma 50-500mm - as new
sb-80dx flash

That's about it.

I don't know whether £4000 is good or not but it still means that I'll only just be able to buy the 6 lenses I'd need for the canon. Maybe the 1Ds price will come down after Christmas? I doubt it. Demand still seems high and supply is very low.

Karl
Ger Bee said:
.............. the Nikon gear should be holding its price better
the fact that three reports show such a miserable price already
for Nikon is depressing, it’s price can only go lower.

Is it the general economic slump or Nikon specific?

Anyone?
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/grambowk/latest_stuff
 
If you have the opportunity to be able replace your Nikon system with a Canon system with very little pain, or you have a job that can pay off the new purchase, by all means go with Canon.

And leave us poor Nikon souls alone in the meantime.
 
Karl Grambow said:
I don't know whether £4000 is good or not but it still means that
I'll only just be able to buy the 6 lenses I'd need for the canon.
Maybe the 1Ds price will come down after Christmas? I doubt it.
Demand still seems high and supply is very low.

Karl
Click to expand...
Just visiting from the light side of the force.

1Ds supply is generally pretty good (at least when compared to the D60 launch), it's been readily available, at a few locations, generally, it's at 7500-7999, but has been spotted at a few reputable dealers for around 7200.

I suspect it'll hit 6900 or less in January, and then fall to the lower end of the 6K region by PMA.

I don't understand this whole switching systems scenario though, until Nikon officially announces that they are not pursuing FF (or unofficially by releasing the D2x with 1.5 crop), and instead will be joining OlyDak or whomever.

While the cost of selling equipment, shouldn't be that bad (given prices on eBay) the learning curve, and workflow issues would be substantial.

Changing systems over 1 body or 1 lens annoucement seems silly to me, esp given that the D2x or whatever it'll be called hasn't even been announced.announced.

Just MHO, so I'll just mosey on back to the light side of the force now.
--
Theo

Don't anthropomorphize cameras. They don't like it.
 
............... but it's not about one announcment.

It's about technology application and distribution.

It's about supplying in the box at a fair price all the ingredients needed for a successful new purchase experience.

It’s not just a camera or even the lenses, it’s about a philosophy and attitude towards customers, it’s about supplying what customers want.

Nikon and Canon have taken different paths, Canon abandoned their lens line because they could not offer the what the customer wanted. Nikon adopted the honourable approach and have a vast lens compatibility ~ but that is being eroded quietly with the introduction of many items, notably the G lens class and now the DX lens class ~ this effectively means that Nikon customers must buy new lenses anyway to avail of the technologies that Nikon are offering.

So we can now look back with a little hindsight and see who saw the future more clearly.

I am confused as to what Nikon intend to do next, going on their recent statements ~ like NO D1x firmware and then not only can it be updated but it can have extra ram on board too well, I am a little miffed that my D1x had this capability all along.

That’s just a little bit, the firmware issue is another ~ rubbish. At best Nikon are dividing their market share and it will be confusing to say the least ~ all report suggest that the Nikon everyone is waiting for is twelve months away.

If we are wrong we need to know soon, I might decide to wait ~ I'm not in any great hurry but I will want to update my D1x in the new year ~ if Nikon don't have one well .....
 
Kjeld Olesen said:
Well, even as a full-bloded Canon-afficionado, I must say that you
Nikon'ians must calm youself now - that is - the ones of you that
are fealing a bit uneasy at the moment.

First of all, Kodak soon brings you a camera that surpasses the
resolution of the 1Ds, that is a known fact. How well it will work
is not know yet of cause, but still. And even with the new DX
lenses Nikon brough out, it it not given that Niikon will never
produce a full frame dSLR that outperformes the 1Ds.

Whoever sits on the technology crown will always be a moving
target. It used to be Nikon, now it is Canon, but it might be Nikon
once again in the future. If it turns that way, wouldn't it be a
pitty having spend all those $$$ for the switch???

--
Kjeld Olesen
http://www.acapixus.dk
Click to expand...
Hang on everybody!! Remember when all the Canon users jumped ship to Nikon when Canon wasn't producing a digital camera? Now they all want to go back! So, guess what? This is great for the manufacturers and the used camera market. By all means, swap over every two years, it will keep the camera industry healthy ( and you guys broke! I'm sure your wives will also like it!) Both Canon and Nikon play this game knowing that 1/2 the photographers will defect one year and half back the next year.

I'm sure Nikon waited with their next F6D until Canon and Kodak commited themselves. Now they can add the last little goodies to trump the competition, with an announcement at the PMA show. At which point everyone will stop buying Canon and wait for the Nikon that will begin delivering 1 year later ! What will trump Canon? A revised F5 body with a 16MP chip ( with options for 8 & 4MP files ), a battery that last all day and verything the " lower end " Kodak 14n will have. Price? Same as the Canon 1Ds.
 
...the fact that Nikon has NOT announced anything...they haven't even speculated on where they are going with their system.

The Canon world is already buzzing with rumors of a replacement to the 1d! (an 8fps!!! 4 megapixel camera that is very impressive to say the least)

Nikon has been expected to release the 70-200 VR lens forever, now they finally are...it's like night and day how the two systems are evolving.

I think Nikon knows they are falling behind, that's why they are licensing their lens mount to the Kodak's and Fujifilm's to keep their business alive...

I've been shooting with the Nikon system for over 20 years...this is the first time in those years I've paused to wonder if it's time to switch to teams.
Theodore said:
Karl Grambow said:
I don't know whether £4000 is good or not but it still means that
I'll only just be able to buy the 6 lenses I'd need for the canon.
Maybe the 1Ds price will come down after Christmas? I doubt it.
Demand still seems high and supply is very low.

Karl
Click to expand...
Just visiting from the light side of the force.

1Ds supply is generally pretty good (at least when compared to the
D60 launch), it's been readily available, at a few locations,
generally, it's at 7500-7999, but has been spotted at a few
reputable dealers for around 7200.

I suspect it'll hit 6900 or less in January, and then fall to the
lower end of the 6K region by PMA.

I don't understand this whole switching systems scenario though,
until Nikon officially announces that they are not pursuing FF (or
unofficially by releasing the D2x with 1.5 crop), and instead will
be joining OlyDak or whomever.

While the cost of selling equipment, shouldn't be that bad (given
prices on eBay) the learning curve, and workflow issues would be
substantial.

Changing systems over 1 body or 1 lens annoucement seems silly to
me, esp given that the D2x or whatever it'll be called hasn't even
been announced.announced.

Just MHO, so I'll just mosey on back to the light side of the force
now.
--
Theo

Don't anthropomorphize cameras. They don't like it.
Click to expand...
 
Hi Ger Bee,

From reading other posts along with things you're sharing here, it sounds like you've been doing your homework...

Question: In general is the Canon system more expensive than the Nikon system?

That seems to the be impression I get when I talk to people about making the switch...but I haven't done all the research yet. To me the Canon L-series lenses are priced similar to the Nikkor equivalents but maybe they're not when look lens for lens, I'm not sure.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,
-Mark-
Ger Bee said:
........... in fact I've started a financial evaluation of a
switch, I think if I’m moving at all I’ll move soon while my Nikon
gear is still in HIGH demand.

I am not at all satisfied with the technologies that Nikon are
ALLOWING us to use and their penny-pinching habit of charging more
and changing the accessories with every release.

On the pro level I am totally, totally, totally dissatisfied with
the EN4 battery ~ I’ve called it a joke ~ Nikon charge us for hand
assembled and hand tested and balanced NiMH battery packs yet
stripped out units show then not to be balanced and hence the high
proportion of faults, problems and simple poor performance. Other
manufacturers and independent battery pack manufacturers can
produce reliable long lasting produce with the same materials ~
frankly I am sick of it.

If it was not for the D100 I’d have thrown my D1x in the river
several times by now.

So you are not alone, I’ve started the clock, Nikon have two months
to show what they intend to do, before I commit to another brand.
Click to expand...
 
The F6 is just a rumor isn't it? Is there an official Nikon announcement released? Isn't the F6d just a further speculation?

I agree the technology crown is a moving target but at the moment no one knows officially what Nikon is doing besides releasing a line of DX lenses to support their existing user base. Maybe they just need some new marketing guys? Hahahaha :)
Weegee said:
Kjeld Olesen said:
Well, even as a full-bloded Canon-afficionado, I must say that you
Nikon'ians must calm youself now - that is - the ones of you that
are fealing a bit uneasy at the moment.

First of all, Kodak soon brings you a camera that surpasses the
resolution of the 1Ds, that is a known fact. How well it will work
is not know yet of cause, but still. And even with the new DX
lenses Nikon brough out, it it not given that Niikon will never
produce a full frame dSLR that outperformes the 1Ds.

Whoever sits on the technology crown will always be a moving
target. It used to be Nikon, now it is Canon, but it might be Nikon
once again in the future. If it turns that way, wouldn't it be a
pitty having spend all those $$$ for the switch???

--
Kjeld Olesen
http://www.acapixus.dk
Click to expand...
Hang on everybody!! Remember when all the Canon users jumped ship
to Nikon when Canon wasn't producing a digital camera? Now they all
want to go back! So, guess what? This is great for the
manufacturers and the used camera market. By all means, swap over
every two years, it will keep the camera industry healthy ( and you
guys broke! I'm sure your wives will also like it!) Both Canon and
Nikon play this game knowing that 1/2 the photographers will defect
one year and half back the next year.

I'm sure Nikon waited with their next F6D until Canon and Kodak
commited themselves. Now they can add the last little goodies to
trump the competition, with an announcement at the PMA show. At
which point everyone will stop buying Canon and wait for the Nikon
that will begin delivering 1 year later ! What will trump Canon?
A revised F5 body with a 16MP chip ( with options for 8 & 4MP files
), a battery that last all day and verything the " lower end "
Kodak 14n will have. Price? Same as the Canon 1Ds.
Click to expand...
 
......... the cameras are definitely dearer but ship with most of what one needs to run them. Nikon typically squeeze more for necessary accessories like mains adapters and software ~ the really sad part here is Nikon rarely have the accessories even available when a new product ships ~ so that’s double whammy.

Lenses are a mixed bag but prices are similar but Nikkor actually seem to be a bit cheaper. However, I can say that the 70~200mm EF L is very fast compared to the 80~200mm AF-S on a 1D and a D1x respectively.

One Price Grabber has the Canon @ $1099 and the Nikkor @ $799 for the above lens.
Mark Palumbo said:
Hi Ger Bee,

From reading other posts along with things you're sharing here, it
sounds like you've been doing your homework...

Question: In general is the Canon system more expensive than the
Nikon system?

That seems to the be impression I get when I talk to people about
making the switch...but I haven't done all the research yet. To me
the Canon L-series lenses are priced similar to the Nikkor
equivalents but maybe they're not when look lens for lens, I'm not
sure.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,
-Mark-
Click to expand...
 
...Nikon, had the lead.

It's all a game of leapfrogging, one day you're ahead of the curve, the next day, you're old news. Canon/Nikon, are practically interchangeable, in terms of features.

One must make their decision based on the lens system, and workflow issues, comfort with controls, etc. Eveything else will iron itself out in the long run.

If Nikon needs a FF camera to survive (and I guess that's actually what is in question) then I'm sure they'll release one. They've been around for a long time, they are not about to lose the company over this.

I think it's more of a patience issue, for those of you on the darkside of the force, although I admit, I'm sure the same discussions would be being had, on my side of the force, if the roles were reversed.

I'd bet Nikon will have something to say about all of this at PMA.

--
Theo

Don't anthropomorphize cameras. They don't like it.
Mark Palumbo said:
...the fact that Nikon has NOT announced anything...they haven't
even speculated on where they are going with their system.

The Canon world is already buzzing with rumors of a replacement to
the 1d! (an 8fps!!! 4 megapixel camera that is very impressive to
say the least)

Nikon has been expected to release the 70-200 VR lens forever, now
they finally are...it's like night and day how the two systems are
evolving.

I think Nikon knows they are falling behind, that's why they are
licensing their lens mount to the Kodak's and Fujifilm's to keep
their business alive...

I've been shooting with the Nikon system for over 20 years...this
is the first time in those years I've paused to wonder if it's time
to switch to teams.
Click to expand...
 
"Even as a beginner, Canon's technological superiority seems to be becomming clearer and clearer all the time."

Right, and that is why with the D60 Canon sticks you with the narrow gamut sRGB color space ONLY. Not as a default that you switch out of but as the only option. If you don't understand the difference thnk of Color space as boxes of crayons that encompasses the color spectrum. sRGB is a box with 32 crayons and Adobe RGB (1998) is like a box with a 100 different colors and shades. It gets worse if you shoot in jpeg formats as opposed to TIF or RAW formats.

In a month or two Nikon will be the technology leader and a few months after that it will be Canon again and the cycle will continue repeating with every new "hot" camera.
 
...are YOU being LIMITED by Nikon's seemingly slow progress?

For those of use not even using our lowly D100's (or D-whatever) to their capabilities, I think we miss the point by getting caught up in these ridiculous techno-wars.

If you are a PROFESSIONAL, and NEED something Canon has that Nikon lacks, well then there's your answer. If, however, you do NOT need the latest, expensive Uber-Technology, but merely covet your peer's pixel and gizmo count, then you're chasing a phantom that will never materialize.

Chill out, and get your priorities straight. Nikon seems to enjoy watching others cut their teeth, only to introduce a killer afterward.

Brendan
--
If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, I'm the world's most dangerous man!
 
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