Olympus Pen F 38mm f/1.8 Review

Thanks for the test. I'd be curious to see how much the performance improves at the edges with the C3 or 5N.
i doubt you'd see much if any difference. the rear element on the pen f 38/1.8 doesn't extend past the lens's rear flange so it is actually just as far (if not more) from the sensor as the rear element of the contax g 45/2 (which is outstanding in the corners).

the issue with the corners on pen 38/1.8 is field curvature (probably astigmatism as well as they are both variations on the same basic design issue). as you can see in the my old test of the lens, where i focused on the corners for the corner crops, the corners aren't as terrible as some other lenses on the original NEX sensor (though the pen f 42/1.2 is still sharper in the corner at f/1.2 than the 38mm is at f/1.8). apologies for the large images, i couldn't find my old thread to link to.

corners:



center:



--
hobbes

http://xkcd.com/386/

photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28476552@N04/
 
Great Post :)

I like your points cause they make me think.

I do need great lanscape glass--because I shoot a ton of landscapes. What comes to your mind besides contax 45?

I have summicron 50, but it's not quite there at long range--nikkor 55 is my best at that general FL. To big though.

I hope you will post up some samples of your CV that you really like :)
When speaking lenses and what to like or not to like personal preferences is the main factor, no? Especially when it comes to super fast lenses. What's best? One with little flare or one with more flare but what a certain photographer finds to be good bokeh?
The CV I also love--as you know, but good lord Jonas, it's totally impractical. It turns the camera into a dense monster which could destroy itself or something else with one swing. For a night shoot I take it--otherwise forget it--except on certain special missions.
I'm coming from the DSLR world. The weight and size of the CV3512 is no problem at all. Saying it is totally impractical is to put it quite strong. Strong and wrong, unless you are very tiny. Hey... when shooting in the dark it can double as a night stick, nothing wrong with that.... ;)
The Pen shoots great at ANY aperture and weighs less than a leica summilux and it's very small. The bokeh, again is no worse than 50 famous lenses--and you see it! Half the the time it's nice--and it's almost never as bad as a 45 contax.
We have discussed the Pen4212 bokeh earlier and checked samples and drawn our own personal conclusions, just as it should be.
The Zeiss Contax Planar G 45/2 is totally over-rated. The bokeh wide open is plain ugly and there are many situations where you have to stop it down to f/2.8 to make it usable. But from there it does nearly everything right. I think that mainly tells us about how many look at "sharpness" as the main parameter.
As an all around lens it's no contest. NO lens has the pen's combo of weight and perfromance--while 50s with good bokeh are a dime a dozen--certainly the CV is wonderful--I'm not selling mine either.
As an all around lens it is too long, don't you think. Right now I use the E-mount 16/2.8, the 35/1.2 and the Pen F 60/1.5 and the 5N with an EVF mounted to it. The bag doesn't feel very heavy and I think I have a nice balance between cost, performance, speed and weight.
I do have a fantastic copy of the Pen--any many are not in that condition--I just got lucky.

that shot was n5.
Ah, finally, thank you.
BTW your nice coverage of the CV is an example of taking the time to do it right-- though I think I wished for more landscape style infinity shots to go with the closer range stuff.. Who had done all those other lenses with the scales? Was that you too?
Thank you. I worked with that First look "review" for some time. I still didn't cover it all. Yes, I was thinking about more landscape style images. Personally I seldom shoot at infinity so then it was forgotten during the process. Perhaps in the Second look ?

"...lenses with scales" - I'm not sure what you are thinking of. If it was very well done it was probably somebody else.

Cheers,

Jonas
v1 is fantastically toerant of lamps :)

 
Thanks for these

I think the big question is: Can you stop down enough to mitgate the issue and retain center sharpness?

i.e. can the lens really be used for crisp edge to edge landscapes?

I'm not sure---with the 20 and 25, I doubt it--but I need to try harder.

For those, like me, who are trying to get up to speed in understanding the issues:

http://toothwalker.org/optics/astigmatism.html
Thanks for the test. I'd be curious to see how much the performance improves at the edges with the C3 or 5N.
i doubt you'd see much if any difference. the rear element on the pen f 38/1.8 doesn't extend past the lens's rear flange so it is actually just as far (if not more) from the sensor as the rear element of the contax g 45/2 (which is outstanding in the corners).

the issue with the corners on pen 38/1.8 is field curvature (probably astigmatism as well as they are both variations on the same basic design issue). as you can see in the my old test of the lens, where i focused on the corners for the corner crops, the corners aren't as terrible as some other lenses on the original NEX sensor (though the pen f 42/1.2 is still sharper in the corner at f/1.2 than the 38mm is at f/1.8). apologies for the large images, i couldn't find my old thread to link to.
 
Thanks for these

I think the big question is: Can you stop down enough to mitgate the issue and retain center sharpness?

i.e. can the lens really be used for crisp edge to edge landscapes?

I'm not sure---with the 20 and 25, I doubt it--but I need to try harder.

For those, like me, who are trying to get up to speed in understanding the issues:

http://toothwalker.org/optics/astigmatism.html
definitely a good site to read up on lens issues.

the 38/1.8 is just peachy at f/8 and very little is lost in the center there. f/5.6 is decent for landscape, but i wouldn't go lower than that. i'd just use the contax g if i were shooting landscape though.

--
hobbes

http://xkcd.com/386/

photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28476552@N04/
 
looking forward to the 40mm review. Almost bought a 42mm 1.2 but the bokeh I saw on the web looked far too busy.

Mike
better than many a zeiss--biogon or planar take your pick. If you missed a decent copy of the 42 for under 600, you REALLY missed ;)

It simply amazes me that x number of posts into this "test" there is still NO clue as to the performance of the lens--that I can see anyway---despite considerable jostling by many folks to be the expert.

who can be the first to cry: that lens is not sharp!! centers or conrners or whereever.

Eric--why rush into print without a complete set of samples shot flat at mid distance and infinity?
There are plenty of samples on the web.
I don't know how anyone can get an idea of anything from what's in here.

Which is a shame because the lens has been mentioned hundreds of times in this forum.

I own 3 pen-Fs, the 42/1.2, which was so far beyond my expectations I bought a 25/2.8 and a 20/3.5

In prep I read everything I could find about the system and studied carefully the one good test I know:
http://www.skipwilliams.com/olympus/pen-lit.htm
This test looked very old and was done with film? I am not shooting film and some lenses that perform good on film aren't so good anymore. The point is adding modern well controlled digital reviews is value added.

An example of a review that changed the value of a lens drastically is that of the Vivitar Series 1 70-200mm f/2.8-4 (version III, made by Komine). It had one web review that rated it as the sharpest lens, but failed to mention it had really bad color fringing, etc. I actually thought the lens was pretty poor on digital because of this in bright lighting conditions, but people continue to site that review.

This is why I don't "rate" the lenses. I try to mention pros and cons and suggested uses for a lens. I am starting to put colored boxes around my wrap up, to give you an impression of how I feel about the lens (Red-Yellow-Green-Blue in order), but I don't want to give it a number.
I'll let you guys find it and look for what else we know with the handy little search thingy on this page, which nobody cares to use.

For anyone seriously interested in the Pen-F lenses--and they are all different-- leave this thread right now. And the whole forum. Do your research. Then maybe check back to see if there are finally any worthwhile samples once you are ready to resist all the passionate misconceptions. Like in a week or more.

I guess its good news for the Pen-F collectors who hate the idea of competing against nex users in the marketplace.

Eric you do have a good idea-- I have wondered about the way the 38/1.8 would work on the nex for a long time. But you need to learn more before tossing the worm can.

Start with an overview of the lens history. What year did it come out and on what camera? What were the years of production? How many were made? You first work on the lens should have been in the speciallized forums reaching out for info---since there are those who know all this stuff.
Why, people can go read this on Wikipedia or other sites? I don't want to rehash it all.

I also like not reading the specialized forums, because not only do they know their information, they have aquired biases that remain in those forums. I am not saying this is bad, but I like going into a review without preconceived notions of how a lens should perform.
The web is full of half-assed lens reviews and other ones which look good, like the photozone treatment of the CV 75/2.5 on the nex, but in fact are completely misleading.
I don't think they are all misleading. They are more data. I think people often think some of the older lenses are better than they are because they have "character" (lens aberrations).

If I look at my test data, and look at my sample images, I see the very soft appearing corners at large apertures, etc. I do try to emphasize that this doesn't make the lens bad. It changes how you use it.
The main thing is to give people the data to judge for themselves--that's the VERY least you can do. That means good images and a good selection of them. Steve Huff can't even manage that anymore.
Images aren't the only kind of data.

I respect your opinion, but my goal is to keep these reviews terse. I am going to add a glossery and try to add some sample images for what the numbers mean to real world images. I do think that it would be valuable. I am also going to try to get more consistent on adding the corner performance LED test, a more fixed bokeh test, and a more consistent flare test.

However. In the digital age, sharpness is more important to many as other factors can easily be manipulated in software. Unlike slide film where you want punch and contrast straight from the lens, with digital the camera can add that. Take for example Olympus and Samsung. They implement some optical corrections in software in order to make the lenses smaller and less expensive.

Eric

--
I never saw an ugly thing in my life: for let the form of an object
be what it may - light, shade, and perspective will always make it
beautiful. - John Constable (quote)

See my Blog at: http://www.erphotoreview.com/ (bi-weekly)
Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28177041@N03/ (updated daily)
 
Looks good to me. The tonal signature looks familiarly Pen-like -- slightly restrained contrast, and excellent sharpness. It reminds me of the 100/3.5, which is just shockingly good, at any price.
And the 25/4 which is probably better than either :-)
John, I just picked up one of these on eBay and am excited to try it out. :)

Eric

--
I never saw an ugly thing in my life: for let the form of an object
be what it may - light, shade, and perspective will always make it
beautiful. - John Constable (quote)

See my Blog at: http://www.erphotoreview.com/ (bi-weekly)
Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28177041@N03/ (updated daily)
 
For anyone seriously interested in the Pen-F lenses--and they are all different-- leave this thread right now. And the whole forum. Do your research. Then maybe check back to see if there are finally any worthwhile samples once you are ready to resist all the passionate misconceptions. Like in a week or more.
Eric you do have a good idea-- I have wondered about the way the 38/1.8 would work on the nex for a long time. But you need to learn more before tossing the worm can.
I also like not reading the specialized forums, because not only do they know their information, they have aquired biases that remain in those forums. I am not saying this is bad, but I like going into a review without preconceived notions of how a lens should perform.
Eric, keep doing what you are doing. WWW is full of old wives tales about how this or that lens is tack sharp or has a wonderful character coupled with pure poetry descriptions akin to what you find in audiophile blogs regarding "warm tube sound". A healthy dose of hard data can never hurt. There is a lot more to any lens than just sharpness and distortion and subjective is more important than objective in photography, but factual reviews provide much more reliable starting point than unsubstantiated forum opinions.

I happen to own/owned a number of lenses that Eric tested:

Vivitar 55/f2.8 macro, Minolta 50/f3.5 macro, Minolta PF 58/f1.4, Canon FD 50mm/f1.4 and f1.8, Konica 40/f1.8 and most of what he wrote about these lenses matches my experience very closely. So I have good reasons to believe that his reviews are accurate when it comes to stuff I didn't try yet.
 
For example, if you looked at the tiniest visible details you were really comparing MTF-5 or so instead of MTF-50.
Hmm, I don't think I can see anything down at MTF5. That would be a very very low contrast ratio. But I see what you mean.
Actually, details at MTF-5 are easily visible.

Hi,

I needed some time for this reply.

Yes, you can see details at 5% contrast. However, when looking at real world images where the light has passed a lens and then an AA filter to finally make an image on a sensor things are different compared to a computer generated image for demonstration purposes.

Here is a compilation showing the performance of a couple of lenses when aimed at a standard USAF chart:



Most lenses allow you to see details at higher contrast than 5%. When you can't see clearly what's going on it is due to CA, other aberrations and moiré rather than low contrast.
In principle, it is possible for MTF curves to intersect (see here, for example, http://www.cis.rit.edu/research/thesis/bs/1999/dickinson/thesis.html ). That would explain why 5-N+CV 35/f1.2 feels superior to you, yet MTF-50 is better on the 5.
Yes, but we aren't close to the numbers where this would happen.
Well, I am not sure, for that one has to know MTFs. I've seen some plots for Canon 50D, where MTF-50 lies at about 0.33xNyquist. In principle, this is low enough frequency that influence of smaller pixel pitch (factor of 1.07) can be counterbalanced by other factors, whatever they might be.
I'm not sure either. I would however like to think that the minimal jump from 14 to 16MP shouldn't make any other difference to the results than a slight improvement. If the measurement was to be affected by some, any, kind of interference I would expect to see strange jumps when following a series of results, for example at one certain spot of the test target, for different aperture openings.

Anyway, I have checked and re-checked my setup trying to find the problem. When I re-arranged my test board I cut several of my earlier IMA-test target patches into halves. Now I found they got to small and my way of attaching them to the board made them bend slightly.

So, I messed up. In that situation it wasn't odd to see the result improved when looking at the USAF patches while the result got worse when IMA-test tried to read the "new" patches.

Thank you for the input!

Jonas
 
The numbers don't lie, this is probably the worst corner performance from all the lenses that Eric tested. Bad corners do not automatically imply bad photographs, you know :-). The corners in your picture are far from good, btw, not that it hugely matters.
This was shot wide open. IMO the corners aren't that bad. They are a bit hazy and yet remain detail at the same time. Other lenses I own have blurred corners without any detail. So I much prefer the Pen F corners.

 
The numbers don't lie, this is probably the worst corner performance from all the lenses that Eric tested.
IMO the corners aren't that bad. They are a bit hazy and yet remain detail at the same time. Other lenses I own have blurred corners without any detail. So I much prefer the Pen F corners.
That was exactly the point I was making; the numbers say the corners are worse for this lens than for others, yet my eyes tell me otherwise. I know which matters most to me - and it's not the numbers.

--
John Bean [GMT]
 
The numbers don't lie, this is probably the worst corner performance from all the lenses that Eric tested.
IMO the corners aren't that bad. They are a bit hazy and yet remain detail at the same time. Other lenses I own have blurred corners without any detail. So I much prefer the Pen F corners.
That was exactly the point I was making; the numbers say the corners are worse for this lens than for others, yet my eyes tell me otherwise. I know which matters most to me - and it's not the numbers.
But the numbers show exactly the same thing: low sharpness in the corners (MTF-50), but some details are there (MTF-20). What the test does, it puts the performance in the context of other lenses. Whether the performance is acceptable or not, is of course entirely subjective. From the charts I see that expected sharpness-contrast for this lens is a bit weaker than that of Hexanon 40/1.8, a lens that I have. Is that different from your experience, John?
 
From the charts I see that expected sharpness-contrast for this lens is a bit weaker than that of Hexanon 40/1.8, a lens that I have. Is that different from your experience, John?
Yes. I no longer have the Hexanon, but I found it unacceptably soft and "glowing" until beyond f/2.8. The Zuiko I have is as good wide open as the Hexanon was a full stop down, and is much better than the wide open Hexanon.

Your remark about "shockingly bad" corners is what prompted my first response, and if that is a valid judgement based on the numbers then the numbers are misleading you.

--
John Bean [GMT]
 
The numbers don't lie, this is probably the worst corner performance from all the lenses that Eric tested.
IMO the corners aren't that bad. They are a bit hazy and yet remain detail at the same time. Other lenses I own have blurred corners without any detail. So I much prefer the Pen F corners.
That was exactly the point I was making; the numbers say the corners are worse for this lens than for others, yet my eyes tell me otherwise. I know which matters most to me - and it's not the numbers.
EDIT: Whoops, just read Fermy's post and said the same thing :)

But the numbers say this: the lens lacks contrast in the corners wide open, but can still resolve fine detail (low MTF 50, acceptable MTF20). This is due to the spherical aberration I believe for this lens. Some colors are slightly out of focus relative to the others and it gives it a glowy/hazy effect. Depending on what you are photographing, the low MTF 50 might or might not be important. You are right, this is preferable to a lens that also has low MTF20 in the corners.

Eric

--
I never saw an ugly thing in my life: for let the form of an object
be what it may - light, shade, and perspective will always make it
beautiful. - John Constable (quote)

See my Blog at: http://www.erphotoreview.com/ (bi-weekly)
Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28177041@N03/ (updated daily)
 
Yes. I no longer have the Hexanon, but I found it unacceptably soft and "glowing" until beyond f/2.8. The Zuiko I have is as good wide open as the Hexanon was a full stop down, and is much better than the wide open Hexanon.
Interesting, I remember you thought highly about Hexanon.
Your remark about "shockingly bad" corners is what prompted my first response, and if that is a valid judgement based on the numbers then the numbers are misleading you.
Actually, if you scroll to the beginning you'd see that I wrote about shockingly bad MTF-50, which is factual. However, I do believe that it has to translate into real life performance, not necessarily as "shockingly bad", but definitely as not very sharp and likely glowing.
 
From the charts I see that expected sharpness-contrast for this lens is a bit weaker than that of Hexanon 40/1.8, a lens that I have. Is that different from your experience, John?
Yes. I no longer have the Hexanon, but I found it unacceptably soft and "glowing" until beyond f/2.8. The Zuiko I have is as good wide open as the Hexanon was a full stop down, and is much better than the wide open Hexanon.

Your remark about "shockingly bad" corners is what prompted my first response, and if that is a valid judgement based on the numbers then the numbers are misleading you.
I still have my Hexanon, so this begs a comparison shot :) I will see if I can't do something tonight or tomorrow.

Hexanon, CV, and Pen... :)

I do notice the hexanon has some very bad coma or astigmatism wide open, so that might impact corners in some circumstances. I am sick; I am excited to break out the lenses and compare them to satisfy my curiosity :)

Eric

--
I never saw an ugly thing in my life: for let the form of an object
be what it may - light, shade, and perspective will always make it
beautiful. - John Constable (quote)

See my Blog at: http://www.erphotoreview.com/ (bi-weekly)
Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28177041@N03/ (updated daily)
 
Yes. I no longer have the Hexanon, but I found it unacceptably soft and "glowing" until beyond f/2.8. The Zuiko I have is as good wide open as the Hexanon was a full stop down, and is much better than the wide open Hexanon.
Interesting, I remember you thought highly about Hexanon.
Yes, I liked its rendering from about f/2.8 and used it a lot on my Panasonic G1, but I didn't like the handling on the NEX and disposed of it at the same time as the other micro 4/3 stuff (mainly SLR lenses).

--
John Bean [GMT]
 
From the charts I see that expected sharpness-contrast for this lens is a bit weaker than that of Hexanon 40/1.8, a lens that I have. Is that different from your experience, John?
Yes. I no longer have the Hexanon, but I found it unacceptably soft and "glowing" until beyond f/2.8. The Zuiko I have is as good wide open as the Hexanon was a full stop down, and is much better than the wide open Hexanon.

Your remark about "shockingly bad" corners is what prompted my first response, and if that is a valid judgement based on the numbers then the numbers are misleading you.
I still have my Hexanon, so this begs a comparison shot :) I will see if I can't do something tonight or tomorrow.
Here's a 100% crop composite of two shots of a Koren test chart, centred, all sharpening turned off, no black point adjustment, WB set from background:





One of them is the Hexanon 40/1.8, the other the Zuiko 38/1.8, both wide open. I leave it to you to guess which is which :-)

PS: The Hexanon was lovely at f/2.8 and beyond, but the Zuiko walks all over it at wider apertures. I have no comparison corner tests I'm afraid.

--
John Bean [GMT]
 
Something tells me that Eric's chart will look about the same with lenses reversed and then one would have to chuck this down to sample variation :-).
 

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