HELP - please review my first strobe setup

Hey guys, just signed up since im getting back into photography after 20 years

I need to start shooting models for a local graphic tee company with a heavy fashion photography influence.

So not your boring standard, here's a girl wearing a graphic tee you see on a lot of tshirt sites. It needs to be at a much higher creative level and photo quality level.

In any case, although I did quite a bit of photography 20 years ago, it wasnt digital and never strobe based, so I want to run my first starter kit by you guys. I LOVE digital, im a geek so all the technical stuff comes fast and easy for me.

I want a "balanced" starter kit, and by that I mean, there is no point in buying a $5000 lens and shooting with a $300 lighting setup. I have a somewhat small budget for my first kit, which I want to contain "biggest bang for your buck" type of equipment, so im shooting for Alien Bees stuff, and avoiding the compatibility issues with speed rings and such, by purchasing all AB stuff.

Im shooting in a room that is 15x19 feet with 9 foot ceilings, so a little cramped, and not big enough for 85mm+ glass a lot of people recommend for this type of shooting. Pretty sure I need to shoot at 50mm to fit full bodies into the frame.

I currently have a Nikon D90, with a bunch of cheapy lens you would throw away, so I need to buy ONE good lens to start with.

With a $1500 budget, and 20 hours of online research, here is what im currently thinking about purchasing as a decent entry setup that I can expand on later, and wont just end up throwing away because its complete junk.

Please give me all your feedback its, VERY MUCH appreciated. Im time constrained and ready to order.

Two Alien Bees B800's
Paul C Buff 47" Octobox
Paul C Buff 48" Shoot through umbrella/bounce umbrella, silver/white
$767 shipped (including discounts)

Two Impact, air cushioned 8 foot stands
Shepherd/Polaris Polaris - Digital Reflected, Incident and Flash Light Meter
Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D Autofocus Lens
Impact Background Support Kit - 10 x 12' (White)
$704 shipped

+ $15 cheapy ebay wireless trigger for camera to one strobe + optical slave to 2nd strobe.

This cheap crap will work for a while since everything is within a 10 foot radius. Worst case I will use a PC cord that comes with the B800 + optical slave.

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TOTAL: $1486

I think thats a lot of bang for the buck.

What would you change???

Suggestion: replace the Octobox by a 86" soft silver PLM. It's more "punchy" than a softbox.

(As for the radio trigger... you may add the cost of a hot shoe pc sync device (e.g. Nikon AS-15) to the potential price of a radio trigger as you'd need it if you go with a cable.)
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cheers, Peter
Germany

I mixing a softbox with an umbrella so I have more choices.

You really think two umbrellas, a huge one and 48", would be superior to a big softbox and smaller umbrella?

I need as much versatility as I can get out of only two lights

Ok, reading up on the 86" PLM, im really liking it. Especially with the option of a cover, giving me more lighting choices.

But a 7 foot umbrella, in my 15x19 room... way too big????
Dang... its gonna take half the room up, side to side.

Maybe the 64" version or even smaller would give me more room to move it around?

Giant PLM.

Yesterday I walked around my house with a measuring tape extended to 73 inches, which is the diameter across the face of an 86 inch PLM.

Yes, it is huge, but it gives you a wall of light.

You can hang clothes, sheets of filter material, fake window frames, and lots of other stuff in front, if you want to.

There's enough room in my 8 foot high rooms to allow slight tilting, for additional light control.

If you think it is too big, buy the middle sizes one.

LIGHTS: I'd want three. A main light, a fill light, and a third light to illuminate the background, or the hair, or provide rim lighting.

TRIGGERS: You would be way better off with AB's own triggers. for $150 for a transmitter and receiver, but that's a lot of money compared to $15.

ABs have built in optical sensors, so setting off the first one, by cable, by wireless, will set the other two off with no extra gadgets needed.

A 50mm lens is still probably too long on full body shots of people standing up straight.

The new Nikon 40mm might be really good, but for a budget, either the Tamron or Sigma 17-50,, f2.8 stabilized lenses would be far better choices than the Nikon 50.

And if you insist on the 50, but the f1.8 model and use the money saved on filters for your lights, the extra (third) flash, etc.

Meter is a good idea, and I understand Polaris meters work well.

BAK

Why do you need "full body shots" if what they are selling is T-shirts? For my tastes, framing from just above the knee to top of head is best. You see that she is wearing either a skirt or jeans/shorts and a better view of the T-shirt (what you are trying to sell).

A lot of fashion is done with ONE light. As Peter suggested a 86" PCB PLM is a nice "punchy" light, also the 9" reflector is more crisp. If you want a Buff light, the Einstein is a much better light, for consistency, than the Bee. To see what is being done by some of the best fashion photographers check-out Fashion gone Rogue http://fashiongonerogue.com/ Lots of photos from the lates int fashion editorial and fashion advertising.

You DON"T need expensive f1.4 lenses, 'cause you'll be shooting f8 - f16. Both the Canon and Nikon 50mm f1.8 are good enough for print ads.

You DO need expensive triggers. Pocket Wizard, Paul C. Buff, Elinchrom and Hensel sell triggers that work.

Okay, compromise...for space sake, let's make it 64"

The idea is, the larger the source the more the lighting approaches natural lighting, especially on short lighting distances. Smaller source + narrow distance = huge light fall-off on subject = uneven lighting.

Btw, PCBuff have a generous trial period, IIRC 60 days, in case you dislike the size or the PLM at all.

--
cheers, Peter
Germany

AWESOME info, thanks guys!

So to answer a few questions.

1) Why full body shots?

Like I said, they are heavily fashion influenced. They will take shots that show off the shirt, and then lots of creative shots that are full body... or to put it another way... ITS ABOUT THE SHOES MAN... THE SHOOOEEEESSSS.... lol
And...they want to show off entire outfits using their shirts.

2) The Sigma 17-50 f2.8 is $600... so thats a significant jump in price over the $400 nikon 50mm.

Although the PML's are actually cheaper than softboxes, so I may have more money for a lens.

So I think I need more recommendations as far as lens'. All photos will be going to websites, not print. Im really tired of blurry images with my crap lenses and weak lights. I have to do a ton of photoshop work to get them looking good.

But if a zoom lens will get me the quality I need, it would be a lot more versatile for sure.
I need recommendations.

3) Should I get TWO PLMs?

An 86" soft silver and a 64" soft silver? Then if the 86 is too big, swap it for another 64" ? Or drop down to a 51".
What would you guys get?

noobstrobist said:

3) Should I get TWO PLMs?

An 86" soft silver and a 64" soft silver? Then if the 86 is too big, swap it for another 64" ? Or drop down to a 51".
What would you guys get?

Click to expand...

Why both simultaneously? Think of the PLM as the MAIN (or:key) light and use the 47" shoot through from + above camera axis if you feel the need of some fill light (i.e. lighter shadows).

--
cheers, Peter
Germany

noobstrobist said:

1) Why full body shots?

Like I said, they are heavily fashion influenced. They will take shots that show off the shirt, and then lots of creative shots that are full body... or to put it another way... ITS ABOUT THE SHOES MAN... THE SHOOOEEEESSSS.... lol

Click to expand...

So they are also selling shoes? Why didn't you mention that

noobstrobist said:

2) The Sigma 17-50 f2.8 is $600... so thats a significant jump in price over the $400 nikon 50mm.

Click to expand...

I use the $125.00 Nikon 50mm f1.8 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/247091-USA/Nikon_2137_Normal_AF_Nikkor_50mm.html It's a very sharp lens. The newer $220.00 50mm f1.8 G is slightly better http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/766516-USA/Nikon_2199_AF_S_Nikkor_50mm_f_1_8G.html

noobstrobist said:

So I think I need more recommendations as far as lens'. All photos will be going to websites, not print. Im really tired of blurry images with my crap lenses and weak lights. I have to do a ton of photoshop work to get them looking good.

Click to expand...

noobstrobist said:

But if a zoom lens will get me the quality I need, it would be a lot more versatile for sure.
I need recommendations.

Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with the Nikon 18-55 Kit Lens for the Web, did you get one with your D90?

noobstrobist said:

3) Should I get TWO PLMs?

An 86" soft silver and a 64" soft silver? Then if the 86 is too big, swap it for another 64" ? Or drop down to a 51".
What would you guys get?

Click to expand...

I have the original Hard Silver 86" PCB PLM. the beam is slightly larger than 6" diameter with a rapid falloff to black . Good as a key light, not so good as fill.

My eyes are about to fall out from reading lens reviews

In any case, if I search for glass with image stabilization, probably a good idea since ill moving around without a tripod.... it narrows my choices quite a bit. Although with strobes and higher f-stops does image stabilization really do anything????

Im looking at:

$197 - 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR AF-S DX Nikkor Lens
$397 - 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR AF-S DX Nikkor Autofocus Lens

I think the 18-55 has a plastic mount though...scary and complaints of barrel distortion.

Im really in love with RAZOR sharp images. Will either of these lenses do that?
Or do I have to stick to a prime in the 50mm 1.8D?

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!! Im getting excited here

Kit lenses are sharper than web sites seen on monitors.

Stabilizations does not matter indoors in a studio where the only ambiant light in the room comes from modeling lights, the shutter speed is 1/125, flash provides the main illumination, and the aperture is around f8 - 11.

Stabilization only mtters if you start shooting usign the modeling lights, go outside, shoot at wide apertures indoors with bright modeling lights...

The "budget" comment re the Tamron and Sigma were in comparision to a comparable Nikon lens, which would give you apertures you'd like, and focal lengths you'd like.

BAK

Now im a bit perplexed BAK.

You said: "..stabilized lenses would be far better choices than the Nikon 50"

But you just verified my suspicion that stabilized lenses dont really matter for indoor strobe shooting.

So I assume you think these would be better simply because they give me a focal length range and are sharp enough for web images. Correct?

LOL you guys are gonna laugh.
Just went through my bag and realized I ALREADY HAVE the Nikon 50mm 1.8D LOL!!!

So the lens issue is settled... gonna go shoot with it in the room to make sure I have enough space though.

This changes everything.... I can upgrade to the Einstein E640 Flash Unit
So now my setup list looks like this:

Einstein E640 Flash Unit + 8.5in High Output Reflector
B800 + 7 in. Umbrella Reflector
86-inch Parabolic Umbrella Soft Silver with Buff Speedring
PLM Front Diffuser Fabric, 86in White
48-inch Shoot-Thru Umbrella
Shepherd/Polaris Polaris - Digital Reflected, Incident and Flash Light Meter
2 Impact air cushioned 8 foot stands
Impact Background Support Kit - 10 x 12' (White)

All for $1338 SHIPPED! Now were cookin'

Ive got some cash to spare for some reflectors and shitty wireless trigger or PC cord+hot shoe adapter

Thoughts?

Don't waste money cheap triggers!!! Paul C. Buff makes some good triggers http://paulcbuff.com/cybersync.php CSX transmitter $59.95 and CSXCV Transceiver that plugs into the Einstein.

Post some photos of the T-shirt models

Yeah I know.... but I can handle throwing away $15 on a crap trigger until I can buy the ones you listed. Already on my wish list. The Einstein makes trigger choices real easy

Ok sweet.... put a modeling form 6 feet from the wall, and backed up to the far wall and could get a full body shot in easily with the 50mm lens. IM SET.

I cant wait to shoot my first photo with that lovely soft wrapping light.

Are you happy communcating with the subjects from that far away? Are you talking, or shouting?

Enjoy your project.

BAK

Its often a challenge to use large modifiers in small spaces because it limits harder angles that often create a great mood for fashion lighting. I would recommend adding a AB 20 deg grid for hair/rim lighting and a Kasey 22 Beauty Dish for harder shadows when you want them.

http://www.kaceyenterprises.com/?page_id=461

Wont even have to raise my voice in this room.

However, watching what the pro's do, they very often are quite far from their subjects shooting with 85mm and 105mm+ lenses.

Looks like they are 40-50 yards away at times...lol