Olympus EPL-1 issues

453C · Dec 2, 2011

It's not worth arguing about.

I'll just say that many people feel differently about the E-PL1, and m43 in general.
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http://453c.smugmug.com/

453C · Dec 2, 2011

Guy Parsons said:
I apologise for actually experimenting with my E-PL1 in low light and finding that vertical detail AFs better than horizontal detail - and thus causing this ridiculous thread expansion.

It really is all your fault.

Guy Parsons said:
In future I will cease experimenting or at least cease telling you how I find that my camera works. No smilies.

Guy, just post your findings on your site.
And password it.

Aside from everything else, I think Tedolf and larsbc were also talking past each other.
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tedolf · Dec 2, 2011

453C said:
Guy Parsons said:

I apologise for actually experimenting with my E-PL1 in low light and finding that vertical detail AFs better than horizontal detail - and thus causing this ridiculous thread expansion.

Click to expand...

It really is all your fault.

453C said:

In future I will cease experimenting or at least cease telling you how I find that my camera works. No smilies.

Click to expand...

Guy, just post your findings on your site.
And password it.

Aside from everything else, I think Tedolf and larsbc were also talking past each other.
--

"Sideswiping" would be more accurate.

I think it would be fun if LarsBC and I were in a demolition derby together.

In separate cars, of course!

453C said:
http://453c.smugmug.com/

TEdolph

fermy · Dec 2, 2011

racineur said:
I bought the EPL-1 after a friend showed me his pictures from a trip to Central America taken with his new EPL-1. They were fabulous.

racineur said:
.....

So after two months with this Olympus cam, here's my verdict: superb and wonderful IQ, horrible horrible IBIS system, byzantine menus and ugly GUI and why not an assist lamp? Plus, it's unacceptable these days to offer a Windows only version of a software (b) and an inferior more than crappy one (Olympus Master 2) that can be called Mac only because it can run on OSX. For me, Olympus has let me down and has hurt the m4/3 world with this EPL-1.
......

racineur said:
This is why I'll keep it and take sunny only shots with IBIS off between 1/100 and 1/250. But I'm honest: it's the best of the best P & S I ever owned.

If somebody showed me wonderful pics with a camera that I couldn't make work, I would've figured out that something is wrong with my technique, not with the camera. Maybe, it's just me of course...

On the contrary, for me E-PL1 works absolutely magnificently in low light. No IBIS issues, no need for AF assist lamp...Do we have the same camera? I can bet that you are using a kit lens, which is a bloody slow f3.5-f5.6 lens. Now tell me which camera does well in low light with f3.5-f5.6 zoom, I am dying to hear.

To be honest this spiel is getting tiresome.

racineur said:
racineur said:

Bunch of whiners wrote

My Canon XX was absolutely wonderful in low light, but now E-PL1 sucks. Oh yeah, I was shooting with 35mm f1.4 L lens on FF Canon, but my E-PL1 with Zuiko 14-42 can't match it, Olympus let me down, I would never buy their camera again...

Click to expand...

Only low light pictures below, all with E-PL1:

tedolf · Dec 2, 2011

racineur said:
Hi. I read carefully the posts in this thread cause I recently bought an EPL-1 to make the jump into m4/3 bandwagon and I'm surprised by the number of hints and suggestions going in the sense of "buy a newer PEN". Hey, I bought the baby two months ago and it's still on sale right now and it's a 2010 model. Like many other EPL-1 user (for what I could read and find on some forums), there is much disappointment with this Olympus: AF speed, IBIS issues, screen brightness, kit lens wobble, etc. So does it mean in the m4/3 world, one has to buy a new camera every two year or can it mean Olympus did a bad job two years ago with it's EPL-1? I'd go for the second. I bought the EPL-1 after a friend showed me his pictures from a trip to Central America taken with his new EPL-1. They were fabulous. So after two months with this Olympus cam, here's my verdict: superb and wonderful IQ, horrible horrible IBIS system, byzantine menus and ugly GUI and why not an assist lamp? Plus, it's unacceptable these days to offer a Windows only version of a software (b) and an inferior more than crappy one (Olympus Master 2) that can be called Mac only because it can run on OSX. For me, Olympus has let me down and has hurt the m4/3 world with this EPL-1. Coming from Nikon, I know now there won't be an "EP" this or that in my bags in the next future. And I won't buy a newer Pen to satisfy my curiosity of the m4/3 world. This is sad cause I really like the incredible IQ of this EPL-1. This is why I'll keep it and take sunny only shots with IBIS off between 1/100 and 1/250. But I'm honest: it's the best of the best P & S I ever owned.
--

as the E-pl1 is probably the best selling u 4/3 camera of all time. Many of the top photographers here on this u 4/3 Forum regularly post pictures from E-pl1's. It takes a little bit of skill and knowlege to get the most out of one (and some good lenses) but than is not too much to ask from an experienced amature photographer.

Take a look at some of the photothreads or Galleries from Dr. Wu, LinconB; Bob Tullis, David Irisarri Villa and a few others (Vittorio?). Excellent, excellent photos, and no whining about AF assist lamps, AF speed or other non-sense.

Look, if you can't get good images from your E-pl1 you are the problem.

(Ok, LarsBC and ZoranC, that last line was a gift to you-run with it!)

Tedolph

I would agree that it is not the right camera for a dSLR "downgrader" or a point n shoot upgrader without a significant photographic background. The latter would be better off with a new high end pro-sumer point n shoot, the former with a GH2.

racineur said:
Let's keep it simple...Restons humains!

Tedolph

tedolf · Dec 2, 2011

Fermy's pictures could not have been taken with an E-pl1.

He has decieved us!

Who wants to be the first on to hit the "Complain" button.

Tedolph

453C · Dec 2, 2011

tedolf said:
I would agree that it is not the right camera for a dSLR "downgrader" or a point n shoot upgrader without a significant photographic background. The latter would be better off with a new high end pro-sumer point n shoot, the former with a GH2.

Now you've done it. I have an insignificant photographic background, so where does that leave me? Now I have to upgrade (downgrade?) to a new camera! I never should've learned how to use my E-PL1 in low light or bought those fast lenses. Should I give those away with the body?

I propose Tedolf the Confuser for your new moniker.
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http://453c.smugmug.com/

tedolf · Dec 2, 2011

453C said:
tedolf said:

I would agree that it is not the right camera for a dSLR "downgrader" or a point n shoot upgrader without a significant photographic background. The latter would be better off with a new high end pro-sumer point n shoot, the former with a GH2.

Click to expand...

Now you've done it. I have an insignificant photographic background, so where does that leave me? Now I have to upgrade (downgrade?) to a new camera! I never should've learned how to use my E-PL1 in low light or bought those fast lenses. Should I give those away with the body?

I had to read that last sentace a few times myself-and I am still not sure that I got it right!

It is ture, leanring how to get the E-pl1 to do all the things it is incapable of doing leads to a logical conundrum, a philosophical quandry, and a recursive soliloque.

The only solution is to trade in the E-pl1 for a NEX!

453C said:
I propose Tedolf the Confuser for your new moniker.
--
http://453c.smugmug.com/

TEdolph

The Confused

Louis_Dobson · Dec 3, 2011

We're not in agreement actually, I can't see how an MFT can be compared to a rangefinder, but rather than highjack the OP's thread I've started a new one.

But, as I read the OP's post, he sold a low end, obsolete dSLR and switched to NFT in the expectation of getting similar (dSLR) shooting performance. Unfortunately he picked the wrong camera, because the E-PL1 is firmly in the camp of compact shooting performance with dSLR image quality.

His best bet is to sell it, and then get an MFT camera that CAN match low end dSLR shooting performance. How he does that depends on his budget. I suspect he would find a G1 adequate, and he can probably do that trade at no cost (unlike buying a VF2 and a new lens). If he has the budget, then a latest gen MFT with a removable viewfinder is the best of all worlds. I personally carry a torch for the E-PM1, which is cheap, tiny, and only has one disadvantage - getting out of moron mode and making it work like a proper camera is quite fiddly, although you only have to do it once. It took me two questions on here and about three hours, and I am a computer consultant and very experienced shooter, both of which should have helped. I also carry a torch for the GH2 (which I also have) - that's a perfectly good dSLR replacement but, while it is smaller than a dSLR, it is still not pocketable (unlike the E-PM1 - body in top left pocket, filters etc top right, 45mm f1.8 left side pocket, 12mm f2 right side).

tedolf said:
I thnk now we are in agreement.

The E-pl1 is not an SLR replacement.

It is a rangefinder (e.g. M8) repalcement.

TEdollph

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com

ttan98 · Dec 3, 2011

Louis_Dobson said:
We're not in agreement actually, I can't see how an MFT can be compared to a rangefinder, but rather than highjack the OP's thread I've started a new one.

But, as I read the OP's post, he sold a low end, obsolete dSLR and switched to NFT in the expectation of getting similar (dSLR) shooting performance. Unfortunately he picked the wrong camera, because the E-PL1 is firmly in the camp of compact shooting performance with dSLR image quality.

His best bet is to sell it, and then get an MFT camera that CAN match low end dSLR shooting performance. How he does that depends on his budget. I suspect he would find a G1 adequate, and he can probably do that trade at no cost (unlike buying a VF2 and a new lens). If he has the budget, then a latest gen MFT with a removable viewfinder is the best of all worlds. I personally carry a torch for the E-PM1, which is cheap, tiny, and only has one disadvantage - getting out of moron mode and making it work like a proper camera is quite fiddly, although you only have to do it once. It took me two questions on here and about three hours, and I am a computer consultant and very experienced shooter, both of which should have helped. I also carry a torch for the GH2 (which I also have) - that's a perfectly good dSLR replacement but, while it is smaller than a dSLR, it is still not pocketable (unlike the E-PM1 - body in top left pocket, filters etc top right, 45mm f1.8 left side pocket, 12mm f2 right side).

tedolf said:

I thnk now we are in agreement.

The E-pl1 is not an SLR replacement.

It is a rangefinder (e.g. M8) repalcement.

TEdollph

Click to expand...

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com

But I don't think you can convince Tedolf.

BTW I have E-PL1, GF1,G2 and my latest NEX 3.

Louis_Dobson · Dec 3, 2011

It is a new technology, and like all new technologies, it is developing fast.

The G1 arrived in 2009. Prior to that nobody had tried to make an EVIL, because it was assumed that the VF and AF would be too slow. Both of these are solvable by the fall in price and increase in power of electronic components, and 2009 was where it became possible to make an interchangeable lens largeish sensor camera with electronic viewfinder that didn't cost a fortune, focus unusably slowly or drive the shooter mad with VF lag.

Since then, the technology has shot forward, especially in the are of focusing using CDAF.

In the meantime, electro-mechanical systems, such as used in my Nikon FF camera, have not changed much, and the new D800 will have the same AF system as my D3. The dSLR I bought in 2009 is still more or less a current model, and I won't be looking at replacing it until next Summer at the earliest. I am on my third EVIL over the same period!

racineur said:
Hi. I read carefully the posts in this thread cause I recently bought an EPL-1 to make the jump into m4/3 bandwagon and I'm surprised by the number of hints and suggestions going in the sense of "buy a newer PEN". Hey, I bought the baby two months ago and it's still on sale right now and it's a 2010 model. Like many other EPL-1 user (for what I could read and find on some forums), there is much disappointment with this Olympus: AF speed, IBIS issues, screen brightness, kit lens wobble, etc. So does it mean in the m4/3 world, one has to buy a new camera every two year or can it mean Olympus did a bad job two years ago with it's EPL-1? I'd go for the second. I bought the EPL-1 after a friend showed me his pictures from a trip to Central America taken with his new EPL-1. They were fabulous. So after two months with this Olympus cam, here's my verdict: superb and wonderful IQ, horrible horrible IBIS system, byzantine menus and ugly GUI and why not an assist lamp? Plus, it's unacceptable these days to offer a Windows only version of a software (b) and an inferior more than crappy one (Olympus Master 2) that can be called Mac only because it can run on OSX. For me, Olympus has let me down and has hurt the m4/3 world with this EPL-1. Coming from Nikon, I know now there won't be an "EP" this or that in my bags in the next future. And I won't buy a newer Pen to satisfy my curiosity of the m4/3 world. This is sad cause I really like the incredible IQ of this EPL-1. This is why I'll keep it and take sunny only shots with IBIS off between 1/100 and 1/250. But I'm honest: it's the best of the best P & S I ever owned.
--
Let's keep it simple...Restons humains!

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com

fermy · Dec 3, 2011

Louis_Dobson said:
In the meantime, electro-mechanical systems, such as used in my Nikon FF camera, have not changed much, and the new D800 will have the same AF system as my D3. The dSLR I bought in 2009 is still more or less a current model, and I won't be looking at replacing it until next Summer at the earliest. I am on my third EVIL over the same period!

You are on your 3rd EVIL not because there was actual need, but because you simply wanted a new toy. Yes, CDAF technology improved with each subsequent PEN model, but the fact of the matter is that I found E-PL1 perfectly adequate for photographing children, which is more than enough for most people. I won't be replacing my E-PL1 until there is a small PEN with decent tilt screen, grip, controls, and better sensor.

Louis_Dobson · Dec 3, 2011

I disagree. My original EVIL was the G1. This was a lot more portable than my D3, but still not pocketable, and was nowhere near capable of doing the same job. Great travel camera though.

Next up came the GH2. This comes so close to the D3 in performance that the D3 sees very little use now. The jury is out on whether I sell all my Nikon FF gear or replace the D3 with the forthcoming D800. But the GH2 still isn't pocketable.

And finally we have the E-PM1, which is a fairly lousy shooting experience (no EVF, noisy sensor) but very pocketable indeed, and providing me endless shots that I would never have taken before because I would not have has a camera with me.

If I were in the habit of buying cameras for fun, I'd have a D700 (lighter than my D3) and then a D3X (higher resolution). But I don't, because dSLR technology has not advanced enough for me to put my hand in my pocket. D3, D700, D3X, all much of a muchness. G1 and GH2, or E-P1 and E-PM1, night and day.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com

CharlesB58 · Dec 3, 2011

Louis_Dobson said:
in my opinion cameras without viewfinders are for snapshots. I have an E-PM1, which lives in my pocket, but if I'm going out shooting I take the GH2.

My opinion differs, which is great, because shooting styles differ with each on of us.

I find the value of the viewfinder depends on the situation. There are times where I do much better using LV on my E520 or the LCD on my Kodak z712is. The distance allows me to frame my shot in relationship to the surrounding area. It's akin to using a view camera, in which it's often a good thing to look at what is on the ground glass incomparison to the overall scene, rather than just concentrating on what is on the ground glass.

Louis_Dobson said:
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com

--

Some people operate cameras. Others use them to create images. There is a difference.

http://ikkens.zenfolio.com/

http://sarob-w.deviantart.com/

Louis_Dobson · Dec 3, 2011

And for that, now VF is a serious pain. I do know what you mean though, I rather enjoyed shooting with a Bronica with the waist level finder. But I prefer it maybe 5% of the time. Otherwise it just frustrates me.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com

Bilgy_no1 · Dec 4, 2011

racineur said:
Hi. I read carefully the posts in this thread cause I recently bought an EPL-1 to make the jump into m4/3 bandwagon and I'm surprised by the number of hints and suggestions going in the sense of "buy a newer PEN". Hey, I bought the baby two months ago

and it's still on sale right now and it's a 2010 model. Like many other EPL-1 user (for what I could read and find on some forums), there is much disappointment with this Olympus: AF speed, IBIS issues, screen brightness, kit lens wobble, etc. So does it mean in the m4/3 world, one has to buy a new camera every two year or can it mean Olympus did a bad job two years ago with it's EPL-1? I'd go for the second.

Well: two months ago, you could have known better. The E-PL2 has been out since the beginning of the year, and addresses most of the issues that handicap the E-PL1. AF-speed with kit lens, better screen, new kit lens design without wobble, control wheel for easier changing of settings. Oh and it looks way better. Yes, it's a bit more expensive than the E-PL1, but for unless cost is a real restraint, the E-PL2 is a much better choice.

I do agree that Olympus could have produced a better camera in the first place. It seems that their iterations are always a step behind: the E-P1 should have been the E-P2, the E-PL1 should have been the E-PL2. The E-PL2 would have gotten rave reviews in early 2010, but only 'good' in 2011.

This seems to be the way of the tech industry: always coming up with incremental improvements to prompt new sales way before the old equipment has given out. You can happily use your gear for years if you're not worried that later models have all kinds of advantages.

racineur said:
I bought the EPL-1 after a friend showed me his pictures from a trip to Central America taken with his new EPL-1. They were fabulous. So after two months with this Olympus cam, here's my verdict: superb and wonderful IQ, horrible horrible IBIS system, byzantine menus and ugly GUI and why not an assist lamp? Plus, it's unacceptable these days to offer a Windows only version of a software (b) and an inferior more than crappy one (Olympus Master 2) that can be called Mac only because it can run on OSX.

In my case, IBIS works pretty well. I hardly use the kit lens, but the 20mm panasonic or manual focus lenses instead. The IBIS is extremely versatile in that it lets me select focal lengths for non-automatic lenses as well.
I think almost everyone here would advise you not to bother with Olympus Master and download the more functional 'Olympus Viewer 2' from their website. Yes, it's also available for Mac OSX Snow Leopard.

But I agree with you that Olympus is doing a poor job of actually providing a good user experience. All the options and customisation settings are there, but they make it nearly impossible to find them. Examples: Super Control Panel (why in heaven's name isn't it on by default), Gradation (unintelligible naming and gives bad results in low light high contrast), plasticky feel of buttons, etc.

racineur said:
For me, Olympus has let me down and has hurt the m4/3 world with this EPL-1. Coming from Nikon, I know now there won't be an "EP" this or that in my bags in the next future. And I won't buy a newer Pen to satisfy my curiosity of the m4/3 world. This is sad cause I really like the incredible IQ of this EPL-1. This is why I'll keep it and take sunny only shots with IBIS off between 1/100 and 1/250. But I'm honest: it's the best of the best P & S I ever owned.
--

Yes, just keep using it, maybe add a 20mm to the kit, and replace with something else when it really doesn't cut it anymore. That's my plan too...

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bilgy_no1

Bob Carstens · Dec 4, 2011

Bilgy_no1 said:
But I agree with you that Olympus is doing a poor job of actually providing a good user experience. All the options and customisation settings are there, but they make it nearly impossible to find them. Examples: Super Control Panel (why in heaven's name isn't it on by default), Gradation (unintelligible naming and gives bad results in low light high contrast), plasticky feel of buttons, etc.

Can you tell me how you set your Noise Reduction, Noise Filter and Gradation on the camera? I have mine on Auto, Low and Normal respectively after reading various threads on this forum. Thanks

Bob Carstens

Bilgy_no1 · Dec 4, 2011

Bob Carstens said:
Bilgy_no1 said:

But I agree with you that Olympus is doing a poor job of actually providing a good user experience. All the options and customisation settings are there, but they make it nearly impossible to find them. Examples: Super Control Panel (why in heaven's name isn't it on by default), Gradation (unintelligible naming and gives bad results in low light high contrast), plasticky feel of buttons, etc.

Click to expand...

Can you tell me how you set your Noise Reduction, Noise Filter and Gradation on the camera? I have mine on Auto, Low and Normal respectively after reading various threads on this forum. Thanks

Bob Carstens

Noise Reduction is set to on or auto. It only works for long exposures to eliminate the effect of hot pixels (longer than 4s exposure I think). It does no harm otherwise.

Noise Filter is set to Low, like yours. Maintains some more detail at practically no noise penalty up to ISO 1600.

Gradation also to Normal; I only turn it on for selected photos where I need a bit more DR in the photo.

Seems we have them all the same!

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bilgy_no1

Seppi Evans · Dec 8, 2011

I decided to cut my losses and sell.

This was based on spending an afternoon at a camera shop trying out different cameras I came home with the Nikon 1 V1, although I must admit I was tempted to get another DSLR. (Canon 600D)

Many thanks for all the suggestions and comments.

tedolf · Dec 8, 2011

Seppi Evans said:
I decided to cut my losses and sell.

This was based on spending an afternoon at a camera shop trying out different cameras I came home with the Nikon 1 V1, although I must admit I was tempted to get another DSLR. (Canon 600D)

Not suprised at all.

Seppi Evans said:
Many thanks for all the suggestions and comments.

Tedollph

Olympus EPL-1 issues

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