What a complex update procedure !

That is untrue. A reset to defaults is never needed when doing a firmware update on any other type of device. Be it a motherboard, your gaming console, your phone, your wifi router, or any other electronics. There is no reason to reset your settings on the A77 when no other device requires it. It is also not considered best practice in general. Firmware settings are stored separate from the core firmware bundle in any case.

No they won't. It was online only just after Lion was released but you can buy a flash drive version or burn a dvd and use either of them instead if you wish.

JusLookN said:

Really, if you been into computers and cameras for quite some time; the camera will still update the firmware like the previous ones.

Click to expand...

Is this true? Will the new cameras take an update on flash card? If so, does Sony provide the FW image?

I updated my wife's A55 a little while back and the only think I remember seeing was the computer centric method.

--
Rick
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fjbphotos/

Roger65 said:

If you just follow the instructions in the software updater, you will not lose your settings. If you follow the instructions on the Sony download website, you lose your settings. >

Click to expand...

OK, so where are the SW updater instructions please?
Are they Sony's and, if not, I wonder why Sony's procedure differs.

As I mentioned above, the FW installation is nowhere near as onerous as having to trawl through the manual and menus to re-install one's own settings. For example getting peaking to work in AF required quite a fiddle once again.

The updater instructions are in the updater itself. When you run the .exe file you downloaded from Sony a window opens. That is the software updater, and in that window are step by step instructions on how to proceed with the update. As it updates your camera it tells you what it is doing and what you need to do next. At one point it does do the camera reset but retains all settings except lens micro adjustments or something like that.

I got the 1.04 update and retained all my settings. Maybe someone else could chime in with better details, I got that tip from another post here on dpreview.

I've heard that the reason Sony (and Olympus: on-line connection only) require a USB connection is to attempt to prevent hacking the software. I too prefer an update via the CF/SD cards.

Jim Funston said:

We humans don't tolerate change very well........... just our nature.

Click to expand...

I view it more like "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". What exactly was wrong with updating via a memory card? Now I need either a windows PC or a MAC to update the camera FW. I primarily run Linux and would much rather not boot into Windows (and go through hours of updates/reboots that are invariably pending before I can use it again) just to update my camera's FW. I have no issue with them having these computer-based utilities but I think they should still support the good way of FW on the card.

It is similar to an Apple router my wife bought. For some reason it doesn't do the smart thing and let you use a web browser to configure it. No they make you run a Windows or MAC program to configure the router. Every other router I have ever used allows the web interface and is thus platform agnostic - something Apple seems to have a real issue with. And apparently so does Sony.

--
Rick
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fjbphotos/

Here is where I got that tip about retaining settings. Second post on page two
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1037&thread=39954420&page=2

Hughesnet said:

That is untrue. A reset to defaults is never needed when doing a firmware update on any other type of device. Be it a motherboard, your gaming console, your phone, your wifi router, or any other electronics. There is no reason to reset your settings on the A77 when no other device requires it. It is also not considered best practice in general. Firmware settings are stored separate from the core firmware bundle in any case.

Click to expand...

Absolutely agree 100%

There is so much mis-information and BS surrounding firmware upgrades, that it makes my blood boil.

Yemble said:

Hughesnet said:

That is untrue. A reset to defaults is never needed when doing a firmware update on any other type of device. Be it a motherboard, your gaming console, your phone, your wifi router, or any other electronics. There is no reason to reset your settings on the A77 when no other device requires it. It is also not considered best practice in general. Firmware settings are stored separate from the core firmware bundle in any case.

Click to expand...

Absolutely agree 100%

There is so much mis-information and BS surrounding firmware upgrades, that it makes my blood boil.

Click to expand...

Pls post a link where it says that resetting to default is unnecessary.

Archer66 said:

Yemble said:

Hughesnet said:

That is untrue. A reset to defaults is never needed when doing a firmware update on any other type of device. Be it a motherboard, your gaming console, your phone, your wifi router, or any other electronics. There is no reason to reset your settings on the A77 when no other device requires it. It is also not considered best practice in general. Firmware settings are stored separate from the core firmware bundle in any case.

Click to expand...

Absolutely agree 100%

There is so much mis-information and BS surrounding firmware upgrades, that it makes my blood boil.

Click to expand...

Pls post a link where it says that resetting to default is unnecessary.

Click to expand...

Where have you been lately?

http://www.sony-asia.com/support/download/478891/product/slt-a77v

Except, that if you just follow the updater instructions then there is no mention of any need to reset the camera. Anyway, who needs a link... I know it works because I have done it. If you wish to re-input all of your settings, then why should I care?

Yemble said:

Archer66 said:

Yemble said:

Hughesnet said:

That is untrue. A reset to defaults is never needed when doing a firmware update on any other type of device. Be it a motherboard, your gaming console, your phone, your wifi router, or any other electronics. There is no reason to reset your settings on the A77 when no other device requires it. It is also not considered best practice in general. Firmware settings are stored separate from the core firmware bundle in any case.

Click to expand...

Absolutely agree 100%

There is so much mis-information and BS surrounding firmware upgrades, that it makes my blood boil.

Click to expand...

Pls post a link where it says that resetting to default is unnecessary.

Click to expand...

Where have you been lately?

http://www.sony-asia.com/support/download/478891/product/slt-a77v

Except, that if you just follow the updater instructions then there is no mention of any need to reset the camera. Anyway, who needs a link... I know it works because I have done it. If you wish to re-input all of your settings, then why should I care?

Click to expand...

I wasnt talking about Sony A77 updates, I was talking about motherboards, routers etc.

You will be hard pressed to find any company issued statement to the effect that you don't need to reinitialize to default settings. For the last 20-30 years it has been standard practice to separate settings (data) from code (firmware). In cases where the format or memory location of the settings changes it may be necessary to re-initialize but the new firmware itself is perfectly capable of doing that.

In general, it is safe to load the new firmware and try it. Of course, a good(bad) programmer can screw up anything. If it doesn't work you can always re-initialize the settings at that point. If the new firmware sets your camera on fire because you didn't re-initialize your settings Sony will buy you a new camera.

Some people are getting agitated about this subject. However, contrary to some people's claims, it is quite clear that both the Asian and European instructions DO require initialization before loading the firmware.

If you follow the entire instructions through in sequence, downloading the software instructions only appears in the European instructions as Step 2 i.e. after Step 1, which is initialization. In the Asia Pacific instructions, initialization is Step 3 which is obviously before Step 5, connecting the camera to the computer.

It is obvious that you don’t lose settings if you don’t initialize. It is less obvious whether failure to initialize has the potential to jeopardise the installation in some way. Personally I’ll take the hard road even if it is a lot more bother.

fjbyrne said:

Jim Funston said:

We humans don't tolerate change very well........... just our nature.

Click to expand...

I view it more like "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". What exactly was wrong with updating via a memory card? Now I need either a windows PC or a MAC to update the camera FW. I primarily run Linux and would much rather not boot into Windows (and go through hours of updates/reboots that are invariably pending before I can use it again) just to update my camera's FW. I have no issue with them having these computer-based utilities but I think they should still support the good way of FW on the card.

Click to expand...

It's all about control. Somebody previously posted that Sony want to insure that 99% of their customers were able to update firmware. More likely, they want to insure that 99.999% of customers can update. A failed update that 'bricks' the camera and requires a return to the service center costs Sony at least $100-200US to restore the camera. Given that Sony has several hundred-thousand cameras that require updating from time to time they take great pains (mostly yours) to make sure the update doesn't fail, or if it does it can be restored by the customer.

The strategy is to remove everything in the process that can fail, leaving the customer to navigate a fail proof "concrete tunnel". Two relatively large sources of update failure over which Sony has no control are batteries and memory cards. Sony gets around this by going to the USB cable which eliminates the battery by supplying its own power and also provides better error checking and recovery options than a memory card.

All of that said, Sony could make their update procedure a lot easier.

fjbyrne said:

It is similar to an Apple router my wife bought. For some reason it doesn't do the smart thing and let you use a web browser to configure it. No they make you run a Windows or MAC program to configure the router. Every other router I have ever used allows the web interface and is thus platform agnostic - something Apple seems to have a real issue with. And apparently so does Sony.

Click to expand...

The control issue again. If you haven't already formed your own opinion, Apple is a giant control freak. They replace the 'browser' interface where you can actually type things and replace it with a 'program' that only lets you make safe choices. I guarantee you that the programs that developed the Apple program have a low-level browser or browser like interface available to them.

fjbyrne said:

--
Rick
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fjbphotos/

Click to expand...

I found the update pretty easy since it walks you through the whole thing. Much easier than the updates for Panasonic where you have to put the file on the SD card and update from there.
--
http://razzledazzleart.com

The "A" in my sig is for Archer - Hi cuz' ;-)
--

Judge: ' This image may be better in black and white - perhaps even just black! '

rothwells said:

Really? I didn't find it hard at all. I launched the software, set the mode to mass storage, then just followed the prompts.

Click to expand...

My upgrade process went smoothly enough, but the I swear the prompts were translated from Sanskrit to English via the Google Translator app. Really not as clear as they might have been. All's well that ends well and I'm a 1.04 kind of guy. Happy days.

--



Tacoma, Washington, USA

The only reason a company would make you initialize your settings to default is so their % of failures is less. It is an even playing field. In their labs they tested the upgrade process on an initialized to default camera, and it worked, so that is what they want (ie suggest) you to do.

It saves them from dealing with some odd combination of user set values that for some reason crashes the firmware update...

I did not re-initialize anything. The update was successful. The prompts on the firmware installer were pretty clear and there were not many steps. I've been through much more rigorous firmware updates on some of my other "non-sony" equipment. So trust me, if you think this was 'too-difficult' it really isn't, just follow the prompts...like a choose your own adventure book......without any choices....

fjbyrne said:

PhillipA said:

Turn this off, turn this on, take out the battery, insert the battery, RESET THE CAMERA (losing your settings I assume) etc. etc.

Sony really should look at how Canon do it - copy the new firmware to a memory card, insert the card and run "update firmware" from the camera's menu - THAT'S IT!

Why the need for all the faffing around from Sony I don't understand !

Click to expand...

I am not a fan of requiring connection to a Windows PC or MAC to update the cameras. I updated my A700 using Linux since all it required was copying the new FW to CF card.

It is OK if they have the PC/MAC method but they should still support the platform neutral way of updating via the memory card.

--
Rick
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fjbphotos/

Click to expand...

As another Linux user I'm with you. I upgraded my A700 by copying the firmware image to the flash card. So simple. What happens when Sony abandons support for my old WinXP? I need to buy a new OS and maybe a new computer? Is Sony going to send me a computer with the proper OS to upgrade my cameras firmware?

Sony is not making the process 99.99% fool proof by excluding people from the process. What they are saying is the Canon people that look down their noses at me are right and I should buy a Canon if they are truly OS agnostic.

--
Gary in PA