Fuji and Leica Teaming Up on New Cameras?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Peter Sills
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Leica just wants the new super sensor.
And what's wrong with that ?

Leica is not an electronics company. In fact, I would be very upset if they did NOT put the best available sensor into my next camera .
 
And what would Leica bring to the table? The obvious suggestion is lenses, but why would Leica do this? That would essentially make the Fuji LX an APS-C version of a presumed new full-frame Leica. Same lenses, same sensor (sans size), with probably a drastically reduced cost. Besides, haven't all other LX rumors speculated about a proprietary mount?

Even if Fuji lenses weren't quite as good as Leica lenses, the LX is still going to eat a chunk out of Leica's sales (assuming the sensor quality is what has been speculated and the price is relatively cheap). No doubt Leica would have to make a move, but I don't know that lenses are the move they'd make.
 
RUBBISH as for as I am concerned.

The bulk of the revenue earned directly as a result of Fuji's revolutionary S and R pixel sensor technology was handed on a plate to Nikon by Fuji using Nikon bodies on their S3 and S5 Pro.

I purchased an S3 Pro and then, over time, purchased thousands of dollars worth of Nikon lenses, speedlights and accessories, maybe as much as ten times more than I spent on the S3 Pro in the first place!! So, who has financially benefited the most out my purchase of the amazing Fuji S3 Pro (and for others the S5 Pro)?. The answer is certainly NOT Fuji.

When Fuji only have a camera to sell their revenue earning potential is only a one time thing - when they sell a camera, that's it, nothing more, zip. But the on-going financial gift to other manufacturers such as Nikon, Tokina, Sigma, Tamron and others just keeps on keeping on even to this very day.

Fuji are not going to make that mistake a second time. Fuji are not about to hand Leica the potential for "pot of gold" sales revenue from the sale of Leica lenses for this new Fuji mirrorless. No way.

My bet is a unique Fujinon lens mount and purpose crafted Fujinon lenses. That way Fuji get to earn some decent on-going reward/revenue for their amazing technology actually AFTER they sold just the camera.

Cheers for now.
 
Well, I have speculated elsewhere that Fuji might get to put the Leica name on their lenses and sell them at a premium, much the way Panasonic did. They could go partners on a camera. For instance, a rangefinderless Fuji X MILC, and essentially the same body with a rangefinder and a red dot.

With appropriate profit sharing agreements, something like this could be a profitable partnership. Both share the costs of producing a much needed camera in their camera lines. Fuji gets a 'high end' X series camera that can be sold at a premium. And Leica gets what is, for them, an inexpensive 'budget' camera of pretty high quality.

Who knows? With the right tooling design, the two cameras might even be able to be produced on the same assembly line at the same time! Think of the production savings something like that could provide to cameras that would likely sell at a premium!
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I doubt that Fuji needs to the Leica name to sell anything.

Fuji has the technology, the brand recognition, and the momentum going into an untapped market. Not only that- they also can't produce the X100 fast enough to meet the current demand.
 
RUBBISH as for as I am concerned.

The bulk of the revenue earned directly as a result of Fuji's revolutionary S and R pixel sensor technology was handed on a plate to Nikon by Fuji using Nikon bodies on their S3 and S5 Pro.


Fuji are not going to make that mistake a second time. Fuji are not about to hand Leica the potential for "pot of gold" sales revenue from the sale of Leica lenses for this new Fuji mirrorless. No way.
I saw no reference to a lens mount—only to the purchase of sensors. Leica sensors are Kodaks, and Kodak just sold their solid-state parts division with no indication of what its future may be. Also Kodak now is on life-support.

It has been said that the only company Canon fears is Fuji, because of their expertise in sensors. Just because Fuji sells sensors to Leica, does not mean that the M-Mount is history, or the new mount for Fujinons will be M-Mount, nor that Leica will change their logo to Fujifilm or vice versa.

Japanese companies have always supplied each other with parts. I see no basis for calling the rumor rubbish. Just because Leica has been using Kodak sensors for years, does not make it Kodak.

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larry!
http://www.larry-bolch.com/
 
I saw no reference to a lens mount—only to the purchase of sensors. Leica sensors are Kodaks, and Kodak just sold their solid-state parts division with no indication of what its future may be. Also Kodak now is on life-support.

It has been said that the only company Canon fears is Fuji, because of their expertise in sensors. Just because Fuji sells sensors to Leica, does not mean that the M-Mount is history, or the new mount for Fujinons will be M-Mount, nor that Leica will change their logo to Fujifilm or vice versa.

Japanese companies have always supplied each other with parts. I see no basis for calling the rumor rubbish. Just because Leica has been using Kodak sensors for years, does not make it Kodak.
You are quite right. I thought there was a reference/rumour about the new mirrorless from Fuji using Leica lenses. Which is laughasble as Fujinon glass is amongst the best in the world. Fuji make the entire Hasselblad H series (lenses and camera) so if Hasselblad can buy off Fuji then little Leica can of course do the same.

If this organic sensor turns out to be the next big thing then it would not be too much of a stretch of the imagination to see Nikon using it. Perhaps this is why we have not seen the new D400 or D800 so far?!?!?

Cheers
 
due to several reasons:
  • Opticals: Having extensive experience on ANY format lenses to imagine Fujifilm needing cooperation with Leica is like expecting Carl Zeiss or Schneider Kreuznach needing Leica for optical design.. (the contrary could be true though, remember Leica Super-Angulon or Curtagon; or even Leica using lenses/lens designs from Minolta or Sigma.) Fujifilm cameras will certainly have their own mounts with a range of lenses designed by Fuji again.
  • FF-Sensor: KAF-series sensor production will continue for not only Leica but a number of industrial camera manufacturers employ the same sensors like JAI, Avigilon or Lumenera. Further, Blackstone knows they would not even get a portion of what they paid in case of liquidation. Most probably the M10 would be based on the same or a new sensor to come from KAF-series again if it was intended to be a FF camera.
  • New Organic Sensor: Definitely the APS-C or largest the APS-H size as " Komori-san says that the sensor quality of Fujifilm X mirrorless will exceed that of current full-frame sensors, although its sensor size will likely be smaller than 24x36mm." AF, automatic aperture control, etc., dictate constraints like size and weight; not to be achieved with FF-sensor designs unless the lenses were intended for DSLRs.. (For Leica to use this sensor would mean something like going back to the M8.2.)
Fujifilm's roadmap is determined as they have their own sensors and their own optical and digital processing expertise in addition to their own plants. Leica on the other hand needs others' sensors, others' digital expertise and (yes) others' production facility to be able to offer consumer-grade products. And for a D-Lux 6, Fujifilm would be a wrong choice; who would buy the X10 for $1K if it had Leica name on the lens?

Unless Leica had already been involved in designing a new body with a range of new lenses for the APS-C format to be introduced in 2012 or something to replace the X1, they can hardly have something to do with Fujifilm.

Just my two cents..

Bob

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BobYIL
 
RE: the Nikons, it's more likely a finance thing. I know, I know, 'they got plenty of money'! So does Olympus, so much they felt like sharing it.

Just cause you got money doesn't mean you feel like spending it. Just ask your bank.
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I haven't a clue as to if the organic sensor is ready to go. It sounds like something is ready to go and the O.S. is the only technology that I'm aware of that might fulfill the performance promise. Leica will be coming out with an APS-C, or APS-H mirrorless system at Photokina 2012. Leica is in a real fix if this organic sensor works and they are left using Sony, or Kodak spinoff sensors.

Fuji just might gain a great deal of market share if they get this one right.

Unfortunately, like politicians, technology breakthroughs usually come with downsides. So, we will need to wait and see.
 
I saw no reference to a lens mount—only to the purchase of sensors. Leica sensors are Kodaks, and Kodak just sold their solid-state parts division with no indication of what its future may be. Also Kodak now is on life-support.

Japanese companies have always supplied each other with parts. I see no basis for calling the rumor rubbish. Just because Leica has been using Kodak sensors for years, does not make it Kodak.
You are quite right. I thought there was a reference/rumour about the new mirrorless from Fuji using Leica lenses. Which is laughasble as Fujinon glass is amongst the best in the world. Fuji make the entire Hasselblad H series (lenses and camera) so if Hasselblad can buy off Fuji then little Leica can of course do the same.

If this organic sensor turns out to be the next big thing then it would not be too much of a stretch of the imagination to see Nikon using it. Perhaps this is why we have not seen the new D400 or D800 so far?!?!?
I recall seeing mention that Nikon has also patented new sensor technology that may or may not have similar design. If the Fuji design is superior and cheaper to produce, it is entirely possible that Nikon would negotiate part or all of the technology. If so, we may or may not know it is a Fuji.

Nikon built a number of dSLRs with Fuji sensors, but they were marketed as Fuji cameras–so there is a history. On the other hand, Nikon has shown itself to not be locked to any one supplier. While many of the sensors are fabbed by Sony Semiconductor Company, there have also been sensors from Aptina and Nikon itself.

Realize that Sony Semiconductor is a semi-autonomous company–part of the Sony conglomerate–not involved in building cameras, just as Nikon is part of Mitsubishi, but not involved in building ships or banking.

Sony's camera company is just another customer for chips in the eyes of the semiconductor company. Within Sony, often the left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing. When current high-honcho Howard Stringer took office, he did a survey of the conglomerate and found an appalling amount of redundancy–Sony companies directly competing against each other with similar products, and thus undercutting the price of products in the marketplace.

When someone says that the sensor in a Nikon is a Sony, it could mean that they found a P&S sensor at a good price, bought it and installed it just like any other part they acquired from a supplier.

It could also mean that Nikon and Sony engineers contracted for each other's intellectual property on some aspects of the design, thus lowering the cost of production for both. In cameras seemingly sharing sensors, Nikon's version always seems to have an edge in performance and quality.

Finally it may mean that Nikon's team designed the part in-house and contracted Sony Semiconductor to fab it. With NDAs, even though the camera company is also carrying the Sony name, they would have no access to details from either Nikon or Sony Semiconductor.

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larry!
http://www.larry-bolch.com/
 
Leica just wants the new super sensor.
And what's wrong with that ?
Leica is not an electronics company.
LOL! Don't tell Leica Microsystems that. I used to work in a very large IBM microchip fab (at the time, the largest one under one roof in the US if not the world) and they had plenty of Leica-brand tooling there used in the manufacture of microchips. And possibly electron microscopes and geosystems don't count as electronics, I don't know, but dismissing Leica as 'not an electronics company' is a tad incorrect.
 
Leica just wants the new super sensor.
And what's wrong with that ?
Leica is not an electronics company.
LOL! Don't tell Leica Microsystems that. I used to work in a very large IBM microchip fab (at the time, the largest one under one roof in the US if not the world) and they had plenty of Leica-brand tooling there used in the manufacture of microchips. And possibly electron microscopes and geosystems don't count as electronics, I don't know, but dismissing Leica as 'not an electronics company' is a tad incorrect.
Leica Microsystems GmbH located in Wetzlar has nothing to do with Leica AG, Solms. The latter one outsources ALL their electronics including software.

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BobYIL
 

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