X10 cancelled, X100 ordered

I had been waiting for the Amazon shipment of the X10 I ordered, then got a shipment revision to December 19 from them, and cancelled my order in disgust. In a gut reaction, I ordered an X100 from Crutchfield, figuring I could return it and exchange for the X10 later.

The X100 is here, and I am glad I made the switch! Still finding myself around, but this is more of a camera than a toy. Besides, I have an LX5 for point and shoot.

BTW, the autofocus issues I have seen here eerily remind me of similar issues with the 7D when it first came out. This was a misunderstanding in the use of the focus points available across the image. Personally, I like one single focus point that I can aim wherever I wish...

Totally off topic but how do you guys manage to return a camera on a whim? Do you have to give a reason? I've no doubt it's legal but the shop must lose out somehow.

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Bob

Perth, Western Australia

Exactly K10D! It would go back to the local shop and then back to the manufacturer to be refurbished and sold as such. I don't understand why people do this. Just sell it outright to someone if you don't want it. Argh.

K10D said:

Totally off topic but how do you guys manage to return a camera on a whim? Do you have to give a reason? I've no doubt it's legal but the shop must lose out somehow.

--
Bob

Perth, Western Australia

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-Ken
http://www.kwaphoto.com

K10D said:

Totally off topic but how do you guys manage to return a camera on a whim? Do you have to give a reason? I've no doubt it's legal but the shop must lose out somehow.

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The stores have their return policy and do not lose any money at all when items are returned. Nor to manufacturers. All of this is built into their price so if you dont like the camera, send it back.
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http://fujifilmimages.aminus3.com/

No such policy in Oz, once you buy something it's yours. I just hope the shops don't sell those returned items as new.

rattymouse said:

K10D said:

Totally off topic but how do you guys manage to return a camera on a whim? Do you have to give a reason? I've no doubt it's legal but the shop must lose out somehow.

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The stores have their return policy and do not lose any money at all when items are returned. Nor to manufacturers. All of this is built into their price so if you dont like the camera, send it back.
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http://fujifilmimages.aminus3.com/

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Bob

Perth, Western Australia

It seems a common practice amongst our US members to buy, try and return.

In the UK for bought over the counter goods, we can only return an item if it is faulty, not as described or not of merchantable quality. Some shops like Marks and Spencers have their own rules that allows for no question return. If you buy through mail order, online or TV there is a cooling off period where the contract can be canceled and goods returned (with some restrictions).

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Malcy

For any large storefront or online retail store, due to US "friendly" return policy, some consumer like to "maximize" these policy to the fullest extend. Retailers accept these return within the defined return policy period and usually dont even care if its functional unless physically damaged, (its impossible for employee who work at retail to check the full functionality of every single product returned. they probably don't even know how the product work since they might carry thousand of different items)

these returned goods are usually sent back to the manufacture's dedicated RMA site or distributor where they are then tested in bulk and repackaged. If the good is in good condition after examination, it might be repackaged and sold at discounted "refurbish" price. Returned goods that are not in such great shape might be ship to 2nd tier or 3rd tier consumer market (S. America...etc) for resale. The retailer usually take very small hit (except the extra labor to accept RMA) Retailers are not dumb and will have logistics that determine if the returned goods are taking too much of work on their end. (more than about 3%) The manufacture will need to pay retailer extra "restocking fee" for the labor, or product gets taken off shelf.

I used to work for a US computer parts distribution channel. Gotta love and hate the US consumer market.

bai said:

Returned goods that are not in such great shape might be ship to 2nd tier or 3rd tier consumer market (S. America...etc) for resale.

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????? What !??

No.

"might be", you write. Well, at least you're being frank in admitting that you are just guessing.

Hey! I am not planning on returning this camera!

But - the store highly advertises their return policy. A buyer would be a fool not to take it into account. I am as altruistic as the next guy, but I am not a fool.

In my market there is no place to go to get a hands on feel of this camera. This is the new Internet sales model. Retail is drying up. If you don't have a return policy, you don't have an Internet business.

I do not know, or care, what happens to the product I return. Caveat emptor. If I got a used product sold as new, you can bet it would go back.

So far I really enjoy this camera and have no plans on returning it. I am going to sell my LX5 on eBay, however. (I remember when you could walk into a camera store, play with a new model, buy it and get some $$$ on a trade in. Not any more. Read Steven King's new novel for an appreciation of this.)

Here lot of stores have very generous policy and membership stores like costco have nearly infinite return policy on many goods and 90 days on electronics. And definitely every day there is a line up of people returning stuff. And it obviously doesn't hurt them or they would just change the policy. 90 days for a camera or TV is a long time, but they are fine with it.

The return policy started back when retailers would prefer to go for the cheaper imports, easily breakable stuff, but still keeping big margin on them. It is like saying, we know we are selling cr*p but don't worry we will make you happy.

It is very ecologically unsound for sure, but first make the manufacturers to build a reliable tools and stuff, then we can go without long refunds.

The sad thing is that a lot of times the stuff is already designed badly - I just got MS new touch mouse and anytime computer go to sleep the mouse loose its button clicks...can't click, have to switch the mouse off and on then it works. So yes, it goes back to store in a blink, I don't have a time to debug mouse or going through microsoft support.

Hmmmm. Have to take exception to your comment about "toy" as it relates to the X10. I own an X100, Leica X1, and now an X10 (and far too many other cameras). I can assure you the X10 is no toy. There is no question that the X100 and X1 have better IQ than the X10, but the difference is far from huge in actual prints. If I had to pick one and throw away the others, it would be the X10 (at least at present - but I have only had it a few days).

BTW, I was able to find the X10 on line, order, and have it delivered in 2 days. I bought it on an impulse. At the time Precision Camera and Video had received about 30 of them and they sold out the next day.

For the other gents talking about Americans and their returns, I agree it's somewhat epidemic here. However, for the record, I have NEVER returned a camera. I do my research and live with my mistakes. But, hey, I like cameras, so variety is the spice of life for me.

rattymouse said:

K10D said:

Totally off topic but how do you guys manage to return a camera on a whim? Do you have to give a reason? I've no doubt it's legal but the shop must lose out somehow.

--

Click to expand...

The stores have their return policy and do not lose any money at all when items are returned. Nor to manufacturers. All of this is built into their price so if you dont like the camera, send it back.
--

http://fujifilmimages.aminus3.com/

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You're kidding yourself. At the very LEAST they lose the shipping, man hours and credit card company fees, but to think the stores can just turn around and sell those returned cameras as new and not lose out a thing is a farce. Now, maybe they have a mechanism in place with the manufacturers that they don't lose out on the FULL value of the camera, but make no mistake they DO lose. Not to mention the manufacturer, who loses because they produced the cameras to be sold as new, but now has to spend extra man hours checking, repackaging and possibly refurbishing the returned cameras, only to re-market and re-sell them as refurbished at a steep discount.

Maybe it's not clear from my first paragraph, but I think buying an returning a perfectly good camera because you wanted a free trial or saw something better, no matter if from brick and mortar or online, is a complete scheister thing to do.

misterpepper said:

rattymouse said:

K10D said:

Totally off topic but how do you guys manage to return a camera on a whim? Do you have to give a reason? I've no doubt it's legal but the shop must lose out somehow.

--

Click to expand...

The stores have their return policy and do not lose any money at all when items are returned. Nor to manufacturers. All of this is built into their price so if you dont like the camera, send it back.
--

http://fujifilmimages.aminus3.com/

Click to expand...

You're kidding yourself. At the very LEAST they lose the shipping, man hours and credit card company fees,

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That's called the cost of doing business. Such costs are considered in the price of the goods sold. Therefore, they are no losses, they are costs.

misterpepper said:

but to think the stores can just turn around and sell those returned cameras as new and not lose out a thing is a farce.

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They do not sell returned goods, the retailer returns the goods themselves to the manufacturer.

misterpepper said:

Now, maybe they have a mechanism in place with the manufacturers that they don't lose out on the FULL value of the camera, but make no mistake they DO lose.

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They do not lose, they incur costs, as any business does that operates.

misterpepper said:

Not to mention the manufacturer, who loses because they produced the cameras to be sold as new, but now has to spend extra man hours checking, repackaging and possibly refurbishing the returned cameras, only to re-market and re-sell them as refurbished at a steep discount.

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Again, all these costs are evaluated and included in the selling price of the goods. They are covered just like R & D costs are as well as marketing, distribution, etc....

misterpepper said:

Maybe it's not clear from my first paragraph, but I think buying an returning a perfectly good camera because you wanted a free trial or saw something better, no matter if from brick and mortar or online, is a complete scheister thing to do.

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I'll agree with that. One should have a decent idea of what works for them. I would never order a piece of gear just to play around with it and then return it. BUt I would have no problem returning a piece of gear that I thought I'd like, but turned out not to like. In 20 years or so of buying gear I have returned two items, a camera and a video camera.
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http://fujifilmimages.aminus3.com/

I had already posted the following link, but it seems it should be reminded from time to time. Please visit this site and see what a good photographer can do with a "toy"!
http://www.boxedlight.com/dlux4/
No 4/3, no full frame, just a compact.

Some response from the OP:

• "toy" comment. Perhaps regrettable. I was referring more to the scene modes, and all the other processing stuff that was added versus the concept of an analog camera. Sorry.

• return the camera on a whim. You are all mostly missing my point. It is one thing to live in a city where you can waltz into a camera store, pick up a camera, play with it, and at least get a hands on feel for it. For me, that is not an option unless I drive two hours to D. C.

The retail option in this country has largely moved to internet sales. Retailers have saved money with bricks and mortar, and sales people. They are selling with images of products. Realizing the risk of buying from an image, they offer a generous return policy to diffuse that risk. That is the reality.

Having never owned a Fuji product, and having no opportunity to actually inspect one, what option would you have? Of course I could take the hit and sell the camera on ebay, but why should I? That was part of the deal I bought into.

Those of you who think this is unethical should wake up and step out of your pod.

Again, I am not planning on returning the x100. In fact, I have purchased some accessories, and am using it as my main camera. I like it. I really, really like it. That was the point of my original post.

What you did was totally in good faith, and this is how the system works now. Nothing to feel guilty about. You'll love the X100, it's a great camera.