50mm f1.4 wide open - Super Takumar, Rokkor, nFD, or others?

kev777zero · Nov 14, 2011

I've seen quite a few great images when stopped down shot with various 50mm f1.4s on this forum, but are there any that can produce acceptably sharp/contrasty photos wide open? I've tried a Rokkor & a FD 50mm 1.4 before and they were pretty horrible (flat/ghosty) wide open (has that very creamy look that some people like for portraits)

I would like to have something sharp wide open because the bokeh catches the shape of whatever the aperture blade looks like once it is stopped down. I currently use the "made in Japan" Olympus OM 50mm 1.8, which is very sharp/contrasty in modern standards wide open, and was wondering if there'd be a lens like that at f1.4 wide open.

and on this topic, I would like to ask how do the Voigtlander 35mm f1.4 or Nokton 40mm f1.4 perform wide open?
--

http://www.wix.com/drkevinlyu/photography

blue_skies · Nov 14, 2011

kev777zero said:
I've seen quite a few great images when stopped down shot with various 50mm f1.4s on this forum, but are there any that can produce acceptably sharp/contrasty photos wide open? I've tried a Rokkor & a FD 50mm 1.4 before and they were pretty horrible (flat/ghosty) wide open (has that very creamy look that some people like for portraits)

I would like to have something sharp wide open because the bokeh catches the shape of whatever the aperture blade looks like once it is stopped down. I currently use the "made in Japan" Olympus OM 50mm 1.8, which is very sharp/contrasty in modern standards wide open, and was wondering if there'd be a lens like that at f1.4 wide open.

and on this topic, I would like to ask how do the Voigtlander 35mm f1.4 or Nokton 40mm f1.4 perform wide open?
--

http://www.wix.com/drkevinlyu/photography

Few lenses perform very well when wide open, especially when below f/2.0. The Contax-G and Zeiss M do well wide open, but they are limited to f/2.0. Only the Leica Summilux lenses give you want you want.

On the other hand, if you work at f/2.0 or f/2.8 most lenses will sharpen and still give bokeh.

The Voigtlander is no different, but at f/1.4 you get that extra stop. Usually, at f/1.4 the light is low, and high contrast is not your main concern.

Bokeh at 35mm, even at 50mm is soso. Once you go to 75mm or longer, you don't need the fastest lnses, per se. Better for portraits too.

Zeiss M Biogon 35mm at f/2.0

Voigtlander 75mm at f/2.5

Voigtlander 35mm at f1.4

Sony SEL18200 at 50mm at f/5.6

Olympus OM 50mm at f/1.4

Sony SEL18200 at 135mm at f.5,6

Sony SEL18200 at 200mm at f/6.3

--
Cheers,
Henry

bur437 · Nov 14, 2011

Hi Kev,

I have the 50TakSMC 1.4 and its pretty good for the price.

I would love a 50 summilux ASPH (maybe for christmas please santa) but enjoy the CVnokt50 1.1, but its a bit heavy and big, plus i would prefer a fast 35 (CV35/1.2 is on the horizon). Theres apretty big difference between 35mm and 50mm on the apsc sensor, so if your only going to get one...

kev777zero said:
I've seen quite a few great images when stopped down shot with various 50mm f1.4s on this forum, but are there any that can produce acceptably sharp/contrasty photos wide open? I've tried a Rokkor & a FD 50mm 1.4 before and they were pretty horrible (flat/ghosty) wide open (has that very creamy look that some people like for portraits)

I would like to have something sharp wide open because the bokeh catches the shape of whatever the aperture blade looks like once it is stopped down. I currently use the "made in Japan" Olympus OM 50mm 1.8, which is very sharp/contrasty in modern standards wide open, and was wondering if there'd be a lens like that at f1.4 wide open.

and on this topic, I would like to ask how do the Voigtlander 35mm f1.4 or Nokton 40mm f1.4 perform wide open?
--

http://www.wix.com/drkevinlyu/photography

SQLGuy · Nov 14, 2011

FD 55mm F1.2 SSC Aspherical wide open:

But, it weighs about a pound and costs about 15X as much as an nFD 50/1.4.

Here's one from the nFD 50/1.4:

--

Nex-5 with kit lenses, Contax G 35, and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

Alupang · Nov 14, 2011

kev777zero said:
I've seen quite a few great images when stopped down shot with various 50mm f1.4s on this forum, but are there any that can produce acceptably sharp/contrasty photos wide open?

No. I don't think so. Even lenses like the Canon 85mm 1.2L II are pretty soft in the corners at f1.4. I would guess the Leica 50mm f1.4 ASPH would be the absolute best possible performance at f1.4 today, but surely the lens would behave much better stopped down to f4.

A more reasonable request its to find a lens that is superb edge to edge at f2.8.

relate22 · Nov 14, 2011

blue_skies said:
Voigtlander 35mm at f1.4

Sony SEL18200 at 50mm at f/5.6

blue_skies said:
--
Cheers,
Henry

You know the more 18-200mm photos I see, the more impressed I am with this lens
--
http://www.pbase.com/reelate2
http://www.pbase.com/relate2
My youtube channel====> [ b] http://www.youtube.com/user/relate2?feature=mhsn
What flying means to me.
http://vimeo.com/2598837
Flying highlights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lRu3P15BaY
My Youtube Channel http://www.youtube.com/user/relate2#p/u

John Bean (UK) · Nov 15, 2011

kev777zero said:
I would like to have something sharp wide open because the bokeh catches the shape of whatever the aperture blade looks like once it is stopped down. I currently use the "made in Japan" Olympus OM 50mm 1.8, which is very sharp/contrasty in modern standards wide open, and was wondering if there'd be a lens like that at f1.4 wide open.

1. Leica Summilux ASPH 50/1.4 (M)
2. Voigtlander Nokton 50/1.5 (LTM)

I'm sure there are others, but they are few and far between; even the pre-ASPH version of the Summilux was pretty awful wide open, much worse than the significantly cheaper Nokton.

I can't afford a Summilux but I do have a Nokton for exactly the reason you are asking about; I don't often use it wide open (sharp but with some visible CA) but it is simply superb stopped down even a tiny amount

--
John Bean [GMT+1 aka BST]

Alupang · Nov 15, 2011

John Bean (UK) said:
kev777zero said:

I would like to have something sharp wide open because the bokeh catches the shape of whatever the aperture blade looks like once it is stopped down. I currently use the "made in Japan" Olympus OM 50mm 1.8, which is very sharp/contrasty in modern standards wide open, and was wondering if there'd be a lens like that at f1.4 wide open.

Click to expand...

1. Leica Summilux ASPH 50/1.4 (M)
2. Voigtlander Nokton 50/1.5 (LTM)

Here is a review of the Nokton 1.5 ASPH on the Sony Nex. Doesn't test out so great here in this review.

http://www.photozone.de/sony-alpha-aps-c-lens-tests/562-voigtlander50f15nex?start=1

I am also seeking the best possible 50mm for the Nex. I think the highest performing 50mms (in a biased order and excluding Leica ASPH) are:

1) Canon FDn f1.4 (7 elements with high refraction glass)

2) Zeiss Planer f1.7 C/Y mount (7 elements and sharper than the latest Planer f1.4)

3) Zeiss Makro Planer f2 (but I worry about low contrast at infinity because it's a macro lens with too many elements)
4) Olympus OM Macro f2 (same concerns as the Zeiss Makro)

I have a Zeiss Planer f1.7 in the mail and will test it out against my Canon(s) soon. I doubt it will beat it but some say it's the ultimate 50mm so it's worth a try. Not too expensive.

John Bean (UK) · Nov 15, 2011

Alupang said:
Here is a review of the Nokton 1.5 ASPH on the Sony Nex. Doesn't test out so great here in this review.

http://www.photozone.de/sony-alpha-aps-c-lens-tests/562-voigtlander50f15nex?start=1

You know me - I speak only from personal experience, not some third party review over which I have no control.

But there are many reviews and opinions of the Nokton out there, and the vast majority agree with my assessment of it. Here's one real-world example (and no, it wasn't Steve Huff who wrote it):

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2010/02/04/voigtlander-nokton-50-1-5-lens-review-by-james-klotz/

--
John Bean [GMT+1 aka BST]

kev777zero · Nov 15, 2011

so among the sub-$100 50mm 1.4s, nFD/Super Takumar are the winners wide open?
--

http://www.wix.com/drkevinlyu/photography

Jonas B · Nov 15, 2011

Alupang said:
John Bean (UK) said:

kev777zero said:

I would like to have something sharp wide open because the bokeh catches the shape of whatever the aperture blade looks like once it is stopped down. I currently use the "made in Japan" Olympus OM 50mm 1.8, which is very sharp/contrasty in modern standards wide open, and was wondering if there'd be a lens like that at f1.4 wide open.

Click to expand...

1. Leica Summilux ASPH 50/1.4 (M)
2. Voigtlander Nokton 50/1.5 (LTM)

Click to expand...

Here is a review of the Nokton 1.5 ASPH on the Sony Nex. Doesn't test out so great here in this review.

http://www.photozone.de/sony-alpha-aps-c-lens-tests/562-voigtlander50f15nex?start=1

The Summilux 50/1.4 is the sharpest and most pleasing 50/1.4 I have owned. Now sold; the border performance (also stopped down, I'm not looking for sharp border to border at large aperture openings) and the money involved didn't make me happy.

I have owned the CV50/1.5. Twice. That experience together with the various results I have seen on-line make me think there is a problem with quality control and per item differences. The copy tested by Photozone doesn't look to bad, nor super. The center performance is excellent. The fringe, the bokeh (and the focus shift) makes it a lesser performer. That sounds like a bad lens, no? Well, it is not, the opposite rather.

Alupang said:
I am also seeking the best possible 50mm for the Nex. I think the highest performing 50mms (in a biased order and excluding Leica ASPH) are:

1) Canon FDn f1.4 (7 elements with high refraction glass)

2) Zeiss Planer f1.7 C/Y mount (7 elements and sharper than the latest Planer f1.4)

3) Zeiss Makro Planer f2 (but I worry about low contrast at infinity because it's a macro lens with too many elements)
4) Olympus OM Macro f2 (same concerns as the Zeiss Makro)

I have a Zeiss Planer f1.7 in the mail and will test it out against my Canon(s) soon. I doubt it will beat it but some say it's the ultimate 50mm so it's worth a try. Not too expensive.

Copy variations can always play a role. My Planar 50/1.7 is not better than my FDn 50/1.4. Counting shrapness only my FDn is as good as my50Lux ASPH from f/2.4 on.

The Makro Planar 50/2 renders background OOF areas in a whimsy and nervous way sometimes. It works very well at long distances. The Olympus measures worse but has an overall, to my eyes, very pleasing way of drawing an image.

(And if anyone is interested in my Planar 50/1.7 or my OM50/2 Macro, they are collecting dust here only, send me a PM)

For the moment I use the Olympus Zuiko Pen 60/1.5. High contrast and resolution wide open compared to any of the mentioned lenses with the exception of the Summilux. It also compares positively to the Hexanon 57/1.2 and Canon FL 58/1.2 wide open and the mentioned lenses stopped down to the same value). But perfect it is not; the colours out of camera are on the cold side.

Such is life... not perfect.

regards,

Jonas

Alupang · Nov 15, 2011

Yes I know. And photozone.de doesn't say such great things about the CV Heliar 50mm f3.5 either. But I've read elsewhere that this is the best 50mm ever made. Who knows for sure?

Sample variance is my best guess. I recently ordered two S Skopars 50mms from Cameraquest. One was an absolute dog and the other was fine.

Jonas B · Nov 15, 2011

kev777zero said:
so among the sub-$100 50mm 1.4s, nFD/Super Takumar are the winners wide open?

Probably. Interesting... they are both very old and classic designs. Both will give you quite some veiling flare and soft images wide open. Both will give you worse background bokeh than foreground bokeh and they perform similar with regards to LoCA. None is very flare resistant.

If you need better (higher) contrast wide open you'll have to spend way more than [currency] 100 (unless I have missed the holy grail, please let me know).

Jonas

Alupang · Nov 15, 2011

Jonas B said:
Copy variations can always play a role. My Planar 50/1.7 is not better than my FDn 50/1.4. Counting shrapness only my FDn is as good as my50Lux ASPH from f/2.4 on.

Yep from f2.8 down my FDn 50mm f1.4 is so sharp---plus the color and contrast is just right for my eyes.

Dang I wish I talked to you before I blew $200 on the Planer f1.7. Maybe I'll get lucky though and get a super great copy...or back to the bay it goes!

Jonas B said:
The Makro Planar 50/2 renders background OOF areas in a whimsy and nervous way sometimes. It works very well at long distances. The Olympus measures worse but has an overall, to my eyes, very pleasing way of drawing an image.

(And if anyone is interested in my Planar 50/1.7 or my OM50/2 Macro, they are collecting dust here only, send me a PM)

Let me ponder this tonight.

zink · Nov 15, 2011

kev777zero said:
so among the sub-$100 50mm 1.4s, nFD/Super Takumar are the winners wide open?
--

http://www.wix.com/drkevinlyu/photography

If you consider buying a Canon FD 50mm 1.4, go for the older SSC version. I had both the FD SSC an the FDn. The FDn had very bad purple frining which only disappeared completely at f5.6. The SSC has much milder red fringing at high contrast edges, disappearing at f2.8. You can see some samples here.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1042&message=39777492
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1042&message=39834400

SQLGuy · Nov 15, 2011

Do you see that fringing here (nFD 50/1.4 @ 1.4)? Maybe yours had an internal problem?

This one may have been stopped down a bit - don't remember - but was still definitely much wider than 5.6:

zink said:
kev777zero said:

so among the sub-$100 50mm 1.4s, nFD/Super Takumar are the winners wide open?
--

http://www.wix.com/drkevinlyu/photography

Click to expand...

If you consider buying a Canon FD 50mm 1.4, go for the older SSC version. I had both the FD SSC an the FDn. The FDn had very bad purple frining which only disappeared completely at f5.6. The SSC has much milder red fringing at high contrast edges, disappearing at f2.8. You can see some samples here.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1042&message=39777492
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1042&message=39834400

--

Nex-5 with kit lenses, Contax G 35, and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

Jonas B · Nov 15, 2011

Alupang said:
Jonas B said:

Copy variations can always play a role. My Planar 50/1.7 is not better than my FDn 50/1.4. Counting shrapness only my FDn is as good as my50Lux ASPH from f/2.4 on.

Click to expand...

Yep from f2.8 down my FDn 50mm f1.4 is so sharp---plus the color and contrast is just right for my eyes.

Dang I wish I talked to you before I blew $200 on the Planer f1.7. Maybe I'll get lucky though and get a super great copy...or back to the bay it goes!

I hope you are about to receive a great copy. (But... USD 200 sounds a bit much, are the prices perhaps going up)

Alupang said:
Alupang said:

The Makro Planar 50/2 renders background OOF areas in a whimsy and nervous way sometimes. It works very well at long distances. The Olympus measures worse but has an overall, to my eyes, very pleasing way of drawing an image.

(And if anyone is interested in my Planar 50/1.7 or my OM50/2 Macro, they are collecting dust here only, send me a PM)

Click to expand...

Let me ponder this tonight.

Oh, take your time, I have no ad up or so. The lenses are just sitting here.

Here is an old sample from the 50/2 Macro still on-line:

Jonas

Art Vandelay II · Nov 15, 2011

Not the best photo to show off the capabilities, but here is a pic from the Pentax SMC-A 50mm/1.4 I snapped yesterday with my 5n:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eparks/6345843137/
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eparks/

Leaping Carp · Nov 15, 2011

This is from a NEX5 + Rokkor 50mm 1.4. Can't remember if it was wide open or not but it looks like f1.4 to me. Either way I struggle on bright days normally with this lens a f2 or wider so this is a bit of an exception...

Leaping Carp · Nov 15, 2011

That is a very very cool photo. Great shot and thanks for sharing.

50mm f1.4 wide open - Super Takumar, Rokkor, nFD, or others?

Senior Member

Forum Pro

Forum Enthusiast

Forum Pro

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Forum Pro

Veteran Member

Forum Pro

Senior Member

Forum Pro

Veteran Member

Forum Pro

Veteran Member

Leading Member

Forum Pro

Forum Pro

Forum Enthusiast

Leading Member

Leading Member

Keyboard shortcuts