help with new 5N and good wide angle lens

runningamok said:

If all alpha lenses with amount preserve the autofocus with this new adapter and the 5N, the alpha mount from sigma shoul too...or not? Here i could be wrong...someone says somewhere that this lenses would preserve the optical stabilisation too...talking about zoom OS from sigma..

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AF with most A-mount lenses is slow at best, even if it works with a Sigma A-mount lens (I don't know) it won't be very useful. As someone else mentions, you might get away with using MF on the 8-16 because of the huge DOF. The Sigma 8-16 is a lot better optically than the 10-20. These lenses don't have OS, so no need to worry if it will work

Still, I think you should try how it handles. I haven't tried myself (thought about it ...), to me it looks like a brick with a small camera on the back

I'm interested in why you sold out of your Canon5DII + good glass setup in favor of the Sony Nex? I think this page of flickr tells the story re the comparison between these two systems for landscape WA applications:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/genotypewriter/5025935854

Note: I own a Nex-5 + 16mm + UWA + fisheye adapters and get a lot of fun out of using the camera as a 'street shooter'. But I just returned from NZ trip and now planning a Europe (maybe Iceland also trip where nature/landscape opportunities come first to mind) and am seriously considering going in the opposite direction to you (i.e. mirrorless to FF dslr) in pursuit of better IQ in these shooting situations (and hang the expense).

Of course, I am also looking at an 'intermediary' step of using rangefinder lenses such as the Voigtlander 15mm (but need to do still more research here and experimentation with my own legacy lenses: nikkor ais 24mm/f2.8 and 50mm/f1.8).

technic said:

AF with most A-mount lenses is slow at best, even if it works with a Sigma A-mount lens (I don't know) it won't be very useful.

Still, I think you should try how it handles. I haven't tried myself (thought about it ...), to me it looks like a brick with a small camera on the back

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Actually, AF with A-mount lenses and the Sony EA2 adapter is almost instantaneous and good for action shots. The EA2 adapter gives the NEX phase detection AF. Below is a shot of a bee landing at 600mm with a Sony A-mount lens.

I regularly use a 1.5kg lens with the NEX 5N and its not a problem. My monopod is attached to the lens body, not the 5N and the balance is fine. Overall it saves me a LOT of weight over having a large DSLR on one end. A few hours lugging 1.7kg around is quite a bit different from lugging 2.5-3kg...

technic said:

the 8-16 is an excellent lens, probably the sharpest SWA on APS-C, so not surprising that you are happy with the image quality. But how does it handle on NEX regarding size/weight? From the pictures I have seen it seems an awkward combination (ergonomically). Setting the aperture on the adapter, does that apply to Canon mount version of the Sigma?

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Not sure about the Canon, but I'm using a Pentax mount version. Ergonomically, its fine as you hold the lens with your left hand and use your thumb/forefinger to focus. With the 24MP EVF, it feels like any other DSLR, just that the combination is much lighter. Because the EVF has so much information and the NEX has just a few buttons (but programmable ones), you can control everything without taking the viewfinder off your eye.

technic said:

Although the Sigma 8-16 is great, I think good FF primes like the Canon 3.5/24TS and the 1.4/24ii (stopped down 2-3 stops) are significantly better.

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Not sure about the Canon SWA lenses, but the Sigma 8-16 is better than any of the Pentax wide angles that I have. Only issue is inability to accept filters and flare. Also, 90% of the time I'm on 8mm and that's why I bought the lens.

My vote goes to the CV15. Incredible lens, performance wise. And it is very small. The Nex with this lens fits in a coat pocket.

It is a true wide angle lens, it has no distortion. Something to consider when shooting buildings. The rear lens element is very close to the sensor and caused some colour shift on the old Nex. But this seems to be solved with the NEX5N.
Here ist what Leica specialist Puts mentions about the Super-Wide-Heliar 4.5/15
http://imx.nl/photo/zeiss/zeiss/zeiss/page53.html

Erwin Puts is very demanding and compares everything to top of the line $$$$ Leica lenses.

glacierpete said:

My vote goes to the CV15. Incredible lens, performance wise. And it is very small. The Nex with this lens fits in a coat pocket.

It is a true wide angle lens, it has no distortion. Something to consider when shooting buildings. The rear lens element is very close to the sensor and caused some colour shift on the old Nex. But this seems to be solved with the NEX5N.
Here ist what Leica specialist Puts mentions about the Super-Wide-Heliar 4.5/15
http://imx.nl/photo/zeiss/zeiss/zeiss/page53.html

Erwin Puts is very demanding and compares everything to top of the line $$$$ Leica lenses.

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If you haven't seen this already: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1042&thread=39790282

Interesting test, thanks. I have no problems with corner sharpness on my old NEX3 with my CV15. But it does show some color shift.

tsammyc said:

tsammyc said:

Although the Sigma 8-16 is great, I think good FF primes like the Canon 3.5/24TS and the 1.4/24ii (stopped down 2-3 stops) are significantly better.

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Not sure about the Canon SWA lenses, but the Sigma 8-16 is better than any of the Pentax wide angles that I have. Only issue is inability to accept filters and flare. Also, 90% of the time I'm on 8mm and that's why I bought the lens.

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I think, from reading reviews like on photozone, that most current Pentax WA lenses are seriously lagging. I admit Canon was not stellar either 5-10 years ago, but they now have some of the very best (S)WA lenses available. And prices are far less exotic than with the best Leica or Zeiss glass. Only for SWA zooms they have serious competition, e.g. from the Nikon 14-24 (but that is a relatively impractical lens).

tsammyc said:

technic said:

AF with most A-mount lenses is slow at best, even if it works with a Sigma A-mount lens (I don't know) it won't be very useful.

Still, I think you should try how it handles. I haven't tried myself (thought about it ...), to me it looks like a brick with a small camera on the back

Click to expand...

Actually, AF with A-mount lenses and the Sony EA2 adapter is almost instantaneous and good for action shots. The EA2 adapter gives the NEX phase detection AF. Below is a shot of a bee landing at 600mm with a Sony A-mount lens.

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I wasn't talking about that one but I guess you are right. For me this is way to bulky because I nearly always work without tripod (or monopod). And this 'huge' adapter defies the most important advantage of the NEX system (a bit like using the Sigma 8-16 I guess).

technic said:

I wasn't talking about that one but I guess you are right. For me this is way to bulky because I nearly always work without tripod (or monopod). And this 'huge' adapter defies the most important advantage of the NEX system (a bit like using the Sigma 8-16 I guess).

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I try to work without a tripod, but when you go over 1kg with a long lens you need some form of support whether you use a DSLR or a compact mirrorless. A monopod & bracing/wedging against a tree, rock or other object is my technique.

With large long lenses, the lens dominates anyway, whether NEX or full frame DSLR, so everyone is going to look at the nut carrying the huge lens anyway. The EA2 adapter doesn't make that much difference when the lens is so big. However, shaving off up to 1kg off the camera side makes a big difference when you are carrying the whole contraption for hours in the hot sun.

M4/3s have some decent long zooms, which aren't too big, but I'm not aware of any that have good sharpness over 400m EFL, so its difficult to get good bird photographs with autofocus. With the NEX, at least its possible.

Up until recently and a landscape shooter, i've recently picked up a NEX 5N and Voigtlander 15mm.

Its not really a quality compromise - ignoring the fact the Canon is 21mp vs 16 and can print a slightly larger image (say 27" wide instead of 24" wide at 200dpi) I get better dynamic range, less distortion and better overall sharpness (edge to edge) with the NEX than my 5D 2 and either 17-40L / 16-35L / Tokina 16-28 (which is the best of the 3 lenses).

That's a 400 gram set up compared to a 1.25-1.75 kg set up

Also get a one stop advantage on depth of field which is nice as lenses tend to be better at F8 than F11.

The NEX 5N has a very light AA filter, low shadow noise and no mirror / shutter vibration too.

Its capable of very high quality imagery and means I can use a much more travel friendly carbon fiber tripod too.

Ultimately the 5D2 has better high ISO performance and overall a bit more resolution, but not enough to justify the size, cost and weight for me anymore.
--

http://www.samwaldron.co.nz

tsammyc said:

With large long lenses, the lens dominates anyway, whether NEX or full frame DSLR, so everyone is going to look at the nut carrying the huge lens anyway. The EA2 adapter doesn't make that much difference when the lens is so big. However, shaving off up to 1kg off the camera side makes a big difference when you are carrying the whole contraption for hours in the hot sun.

M4/3s have some decent long zooms, which aren't too big, but I'm not aware of any that have good sharpness over 400m EFL, so its difficult to get good bird photographs with autofocus. With the NEX, at least its possible.

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one of my subjects is flying dragonflies, and for that I will probably stick to the DSLR for some time, mostly because of the advantages of the 'realtime' viewfinder. Maybe the AF on NEX catches up with DSLRs with this EA2 adapter, but it's still kind of a cludge. I have to admit the AF on my Canon DSLR is not fast enough for this subject anyway, so I usually use MF

I don't use really big lenses yet (usually 2.8/150 or 2.8/200, sometimes with converter), but have started thinking about a 2.8/300. In that case I will have to use some support too, but for flying dragonflies even a monopod is impractical. In the old days I used a shoulder pod for long lenses, but with digital cameras maybe it is less practical. Agree m43 doesn't look very attractive for really long lenses (they are great for SWA/WA though).

Sosua said:

better overall sharpness (edge to edge) with the NEX than my 5D 2 and either 17-40L / 16-35L / Tokina 16-28 (which is the best of the 3 lenses).

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these two Canon zooms are not exactly known for best corner sharpness. Don't know about the Tokina, it is relatively new and I have only seen a few (mixed) reports.

Sosua said:

The NEX 5N has a very light AA filter, low shadow noise and no mirror / shutter vibration too.

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yes, those are points in favor of NEX; especially the mirror/shutter shake I guess, for non-tripod work. Depending on shutter times that are used (and OS function), these can be more important for the final result than ultimate corner resolution.

So would you recommend the Voigtlander 15mm as 'the' lens to marry with the Nex for critical landscape photography? Or are you still experimenting with this lens?

I have looked at a range of images on the website 500px - the sort of images I might like to capture myself - and one thing was evident: very few of these images involved higher ISO settings above 100 (even where there appeared to be low light conditions). Rather, they relied on increased exposure settings (presumaby to avoid the increased noise issue). So any advantage the Canon 5D II may have in this department does not seem that important here (though there may be other situations that make more use of this e.g. indoor work etc).

From what you have said you sound pretty happy with the move to the Nex 5N+Voigtlander 15mm. It certainly presents as a 'cheaper' option than investing in a second system (i.e. FF dslr + Nex) and all the added costs associated.

I guess I'm a bit reluctant to invest further in the Sony Nex system without the reassurance it will deliver across a broader range of shooting situations (than my current use). ATM I can say it has been great 'bang for buck' purchased as a 2 lens kit and adding the two adapters. I wouldn't trade it as a 'street shooter' (although an iphone 4S would be handy too!).

I also have to make a decision about whether or not to buy the 55-210 V 18-200 to 'fill out' what I currently own (waiting to hear more re the 55-210 lens before jumping in here but represents a big saving in exchange for the inconvenience of lens swapping..... a saving that would maybe pay for a Voigtlander 15mm)!

NEX and Rangefinder lenses is in my opinion a good option for my type of photography - travel and landscape with wide, normal to short telephoto.

It has limitations though - e.g. action / sports / wildlife etc.

But for my use (slow shooting) , it seems to be working well - excellent quality and minimal size and weight.
--

http://www.samwaldron.co.nz

perpetual motion said:

So would you recommend the Voigtlander 15mm as 'the' lens to marry with the Nex for critical landscape photography? Or are you still experimenting with this lens?

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Certainly it will out perform the 16 in that department. However if you are talking "critcal" I think you need to get that rear element further away from the sensor.

I have the huge sigma 8-16 which is nice enough, but far from "critical"

Someone asked me why i changed from semipro gear(canon Mark2 plus 16-35, plus 100-400 and others of l series) to the nex system: the answer is that such expensive and very,very heavy gear in my travels was becoming every day more a disadvantage then a funny thing...my backpack reached heaviness more then the one with my clothes...getting on top o f mountains or at the end of long trails with this gear was a torture..so i heard about very good quality f the nex system..and says to myself: lets give it a try...an other problem was getting on the beach and having friends making surfing and me looking for my 4000 and more euros gear under the umbrella...not goos situation..the kind of photography i like has to be good and sharp ok, but it has not to become a bound!

Now i', obviusly in trouble with nex system..i ordered the electric viewfinder..still waiting from hong kong..but with focal lengths it is difficult..i wrote to sony italian customer care to have a sure answer about compatibility with laea2 adapter and sigma lenses with a mount for alpha...they could not give and answer and i'm still waiting to understand if i can use the ea2 with the 8-16 sigma lens with sony mount on my nex and preserve autofocus...the light and focus issue is problematic if i have to shoot inside..when traveling often not only panoramas are interesting but interiors of particular buildings like mooches and churches..or some other street/city shots.

Obviusly i used to make safaris and wildlife shooting too..and here the l series 100-400 from canon i think will be always the best..i do not think i can get the same results with any adaptation on the nex...but retiring to sigma lenses: if the 150-500 would preserve autofocus and stabilization with the new adapter for the nex5n..this would be great...but i do not know now if it will be or work..have to wait some experiences from others..with the good original sony 18-200(very happy about this lens for now) and good working(even if not too fast) 8-16 and an othe good tele only for wildlife..i would be happy!..lets se if sony gives out some new gear in the future for the 5n and the other nexes...

8mm will be a good 12mm..the 16mm is not so good for my habits...an othe resolution will be the sony 11-18(or 20mmi do not remember)...but if sigma works fine i will go these lens with the la ea2...obviusly i'm talking like this because sometimes i will prefer the possibility to use autofocus!
Thanks everybody for the interesting discussion!

On what percentage of outings do you actually use the slightly enormous Sigma 8-16 lens on a Nex body? For something besides testing or demo purposes?

Or do you end up mostly preferring one of your smaller optics?

Am going to start borrowing a friend's eMount 16mm for some experiments.

technic said:

I think, from reading reviews like on photozone, that most current Pentax WA lenses are seriously lagging.

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No, this isn't correct. The DA 12-24 and 15 Ltd are both excellent performers...the zoom in sharpness especially, the 15 in flare resistance, rendering and contrast. I won't say they're the best out there (whatever that means), but they're certainly in the mix with the best.

--
Todd
http://www.naskedov.zenfolio.com
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/toddnaskedov

Perpetual motion, the beauty of buying M lenses is that you're not investing in nex, per se, but, rather, in rangefinder glass, and rangefinder glass holds its value pretty well. I am relatively camera brand agnostic, and I only shoot rangefinder lenses, so whomever makes the best, non-$7K body for those lenses is who I choose.