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This is the terrible fix Nikon is in.

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photoforfun said:
No. It was intended to be build in Thailand.

According to my source, I'm quite sure about this. http://www.fotografie.fr/fotoforum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1335
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It make sense, especially if Nikon really was going to sell us a 36MP 1080p D800 at 300,000 yen, the same debut price point as the D700. If people question how's that price point possible, having the D800 assembled in Thailand would be the answer.

A D800 assembled in Sendai would likely cost more. The "made in japan" sticker would likely propel it to the USD4000+ range.
 
That's true, Jim. I have no doubt about Nikon. I just feel sad for the 500 people that have died and the thousands that are homeless. Nikon will be back, just slower than many of us would like.
JimPearce said:
These guys understand manufacturing, if nothing else, and their financials have been very strong. Even with the setbacks they're looking at a very good year. Of course, they also need to be able to source the sensor for the D400 - Sony had a plant flooded too.
--
Jim
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--
Steve Bingham
http://www.dustylens.com
http://www.ghost-town-photography.com
 
Sorry, Scott. It was being field tested many months ago.
ScottMac said:
Steve Bingham said:
This tells me we might well have to wait until next Summer for that new DX lens and D800.
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Valid point about the flood. Not valid about the D800, it implies the camera was built or near built now and I believe it wasn't. Flood or no flood there is/was no D800, no Nikon higher MP 1080 FF, certainly not a moderately priced one (the Canon 1DX proves that). The D800 is a rumor pipe dream, it is what people want, but Nikon doesn't. There will not be this year or next, a "moderately priced" high MP 1080 FF from Nikon. If or when it ever comes it will be very expensive.
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--
Steve Bingham
http://www.dustylens.com
http://www.ghost-town-photography.com
 
Exactly.
bobn2 said:
myshkin said:
I just got back from a camera store in my town. He is an authorized nikon dealer of both FX and DX lines.

He let me read the letter they sent him. They canceled the announcement of the D800 because they cannot produce it at this time. They are putting their attention on repairing the DX so the D800 release has been canceled. It doesn't sound like anything new is coming for a long time
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I would very much doubt they have cancelled the D800 announcement, merely postponed it. And of course, had they mentioned the D800 in the letter, they would have been announcing it, would they not?
--
Bob
Click to expand...
--
Steve Bingham
http://www.dustylens.com
http://www.ghost-town-photography.com
 
True enough.
Kelowna said:
Grevture said:
ScottMac said:
They just released two new DX with 1080 HD, FX is next. ..... I believe there are legions of Nikon people waiting for this camera.
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....I agree there probably is a fairly big group of customers wanting the same thing as you. Problem is, there is very probably also an even bigger group of customers waiting for a D300s replacement.
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Nikon's current challenges also include supply of parts - including sensors. It appears that Sony's plant in Thailand is also out of commission - that may be a major stumbling block if that is where Nikon is counting on getting sensors for the upcoming models - likely the next DX model, and FX is also a possibility.

--
Desmond Murray
http://www.KelownaPhotographer.com
I shoot to thrill
Click to expand...
--
Steve Bingham
http://www.dustylens.com
http://www.ghost-town-photography.com
 
Steve Bingham said:
ScottMac said:
Steve Bingham said:
This tells me we might well have to wait until next Summer for that new DX lens and D800.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
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Sorry, I don't believe it, where's the proof, especially the part about 36 MP and 1080 HD in FX, not possible, not even logical. The D800 will never appear in that form, and I highly doubt there ever will be a camera called the D800, or that there ever was one.

Time will tell but it's a funny position, I can say, "see it isn't here, it's never coming" and you can say "see, it's just delayed, it's coming soon." However, after a certain amount of time, and or when another FX comes first, I will be proven right.

But ultimately, it's just like every other post about a coming new FX from Nikon over the last 2 1/2 years, all of those predictions have been wrong... time will tell, won't it? To me, it already has told. What's it going to take for you, 6 more months, a year, two years?

Sure, the floods have an effect, but that's not the only or the main reason why it's not here, but I get tired of repeating myself as to why it's not here now, so I won't do it again.
 
Why would you think there's not going to be a D800 or even an update to the D700? Just because it's been over 2 years since the D700 came out? Keep in mind that Canon's 5DMk II came out only three months after the D700 did, so it's just as old. And the Canon people haven't given up hope for a 5DMk III...so much so they take it as fact that one will come out next year.

Just because both companies have very slow product cycles doesn't mean they've abandoned anything.
 
ScottMac said:
Steve Bingham said:
ScottMac said:
Steve Bingham said:
This tells me we might well have to wait until next Summer for that new DX lens and D800.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
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Sorry, I don't believe it, where's the proof, especially the part about 36 MP and 1080 HD in FX, not possible, not even logical.
Click to expand...
Certainly possible. There is absolutely nothing making 36MP and 1080HD in FX impossible, in fact it is a simple assembly of what already exists (the D7000 sensor provides the pixel design, the EXPEED 3 has more than enough throughput) . Certainly logical. From Canon's move with the 1D X it looks like the days of the $8k high res brick have gone, we're onto competition around the 5DII market area.
--
Bob
 
bobn2 said:
ScottMac said:
Steve Bingham said:
ScottMac said:
Steve Bingham said:
This tells me we might well have to wait until next Summer for that new DX lens and D800.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Sorry, I don't believe it, where's the proof, especially the part about 36 MP and 1080 HD in FX, not possible, not even logical.
Click to expand...
Certainly possible. There is absolutely nothing making 36MP and 1080HD in FX impossible, in fact it is a simple assembly of what already exists (the D7000 sensor provides the pixel design, the EXPEED 3 has more than enough throughput) . Certainly logical. From Canon's move with the 1D X it looks like the days of the $8k high res brick have gone, we're onto competition around the 5DII market area.
--
Bob
Click to expand...
Certainly true Bob !
I quite frankly think we will see highspeed in the D4 and highres in the D800..
with quite a very good implementation of video and not for 14000$ like
Canon with the C-line......

The C-line is already eclipsed by the Scarlet for a fraction of the price....for 4K....
The people used the Canon 5d mk2 for its large sensor and low price point....
made indie filmmaking possible...with large sensor the theatralic way...
Peter
 
rayman 2 said:
bobn2 said:
ScottMac said:
Steve Bingham said:
ScottMac said:
Steve Bingham said:
This tells me we might well have to wait until next Summer for that new DX lens and D800.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Sorry, I don't believe it, where's the proof, especially the part about 36 MP and 1080 HD in FX, not possible, not even logical.
Click to expand...
Certainly possible. There is absolutely nothing making 36MP and 1080HD in FX impossible, in fact it is a simple assembly of what already exists (the D7000 sensor provides the pixel design, the EXPEED 3 has more than enough throughput) . Certainly logical. From Canon's move with the 1D X it looks like the days of the $8k high res brick have gone, we're onto competition around the 5DII market area.
--
Bob
Click to expand...
Certainly true Bob !
I quite frankly think we will see highspeed in the D4 and highres in the D800..
with quite a very good implementation of video and not for 14000$ like
Canon with the C-line......

The C-line is already eclipsed by the Scarlet for a fraction of the price....for 4K....
The people used the Canon 5d mk2 for its large sensor and low price point....
made indie filmmaking possible...with large sensor the theatralic way...
Peter
Click to expand...
I think Canon's recent two releases are a salutary lesson for those saying 'Nikon should do this' (or that). The 1D X is the kind of tame incremental upgrade to the D3s that Nikon should not be making. And the C300 is a lesson about how not to enter a new market area which is already crowded. What Canon has done is see the unexpected success of the 5DII as a movie camera, had a quick look at the products on offer in that market. Then it's said to itself 'I could do that' and produced a 'me too' product. This is a problem. For a start, by the time it's come out it's rather less than 'me too', since the competition has moved on from when Canon said 'I could do that'. The problem with being a new entrant in a market is that you'll have little familiarity with the dynamics of that market, and can easily make specification changes of that type.

If Nikon were to enter the video camera market, it would have to do it in a way similar to apple entered the already packed mobile phone market, with a package which offers something different and changes the game. Exactly what that would be, I don't know because I'm not involved in professional film making, but I have a feeling that the ability to shoot 24MP at 25FPS could be utilised to change the game somewhere.
--
Bob
 
The follow up of the D700 is not canceled.

All product announcements are postponed, also of the of the follow up of the D700.

Michel
bobn2 said:
myshkin said:
I just got back from a camera store in my town. He is an authorized nikon dealer of both FX and DX lines.

He let me read the letter they sent him. They canceled the announcement of the D800 because they cannot produce it at this time. They are putting their attention on repairing the DX so the D800 release has been canceled. It doesn't sound like anything new is coming for a long time
Click to expand...
I would very much doubt they have cancelled the D800 announcement, merely postponed it. And of course, had they mentioned the D800 in the letter, they would have been announcing it, would they not?
--
Bob
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--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Light is Everything
http://www.fotopropaganda.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9240992@N05/ (my pixel mess on flikr)
http://www.pbase.com/photopropaganda
 
bobn2 said:
rayman 2 said:
Certainly true Bob !
I quite frankly think we will see highspeed in the D4 and highres in the D800..
with quite a very good implementation of video and not for 14000$ like
Canon with the C-line......

The C-line is already eclipsed by the Scarlet for a fraction of the price....for 4K....
The people used the Canon 5d mk2 for its large sensor and low price point....
made indie filmmaking possible...with large sensor the theatralic way...
Peter
Click to expand...
I think Canon's recent two releases are a salutary lesson for those saying 'Nikon should do this' (or that). The 1D X is the kind of tame incremental upgrade to the D3s that Nikon should not be making. And the C300 is a lesson about how not to enter a new market area which is already crowded. What Canon has done is see the unexpected success of the 5DII as a movie camera, had a quick look at the products on offer in that market. Then it's said to itself 'I could do that' and produced a 'me too' product. This is a problem. For a start, by the time it's come out it's rather less than 'me too', since the competition has moved on from when Canon said 'I could do that'. The problem with being a new entrant in a market is that you'll have little familiarity with the dynamics of that market, and can easily make specification changes of that type.

If Nikon were to enter the video camera market, it would have to do it in a way similar to apple entered the already packed mobile phone market, with a package which offers something different and changes the game. Exactly what that would be, I don't know because I'm not involved in professional film making, but I have a feeling that the ability to shoot 24MP at 25FPS could be utilised to change the game somewhere.
Click to expand...
I mostly agree with the points you both are making: like the combo of a fast PJ/sports D4 brick form factor, and a smaller more 5D-like high resolution general purpose D800.

A for video, I happen to think Canons relese is at least somewhat logical. They are a fairly big player in the pro video segment (together with the dominant ones, Panasonic and Sony), but has so far not made much of an impact on the pro filming business where brands like Arri has ruled for a long time, but is now under threat from Red and possibly others I know little about. This is an area where Panasonic has sort of almost but not really entered lately with the AG-AF100, and Sony has to my knowledge only shown protoptypes (aside from the VG10/VG20 which seem more like expensive prosumer gear to me).

The pro film business is a small market, albeit probably with high margins, but I doubt Nikon would have any business there aside from what they indirectly have done in the past - lenses. Think of all the 300/2 which has been converted to PL mount ... I think what would make sense for Nikon would possibly be something like a PL mount version of the say the 14-24 with constant t-value and a aperture without distinct stops and physically built to fit standard focus pullers (like what Schneider and others do with their PL lenses). And possibly some other lens designs they have developed anyway.

But making a pro video/film cam ... That area is just way to busy with much more experienced competitors anyway. I think they (in terms of video) should aim for

a) good quality video in their enthusiast/pro cameras (like the mentioned D4/D800) - with choice of video codecs, framerates, high bitrate, possible 4:2:2 output and other things which mean these camears will be useful for video enthusiasts, for ad agencys, indie moviemakers and PJ's. But not a full fledged video-only camera.

b) consumer cameras with the combo of good still image quality and easy to use and reasonablye quality video with good AF - which is where I belive the 1 series cameras fit right in and is actually well thought out. And I think we will see changes towards possibly mirorless replacements of D3100/D5100 when those are due for upgrade. Or at least such cameras with a the AF on the sensor and some simpler mirror just to get an OVF for stills shooting.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every moment of it!

By the way, film is not dead.
It just smell funny
 
M Lammerse said:
The follow up of the D700 is not canceled.

All product announcements are postponed, also of the of the follow up of the D700.
Click to expand...
That's what I would think. When Nikon has sorted out its production facilities, we will see a wave of product announcements. What it needs to get out of the mess is a set of brand spanking new products that will sell as fast as it can make them. I'm sure that is exactly what is planned.

On the other hand, there is no point announcing products when you can't satisfy the demand. Now canon has revealed its hand, there is no hurry so far as the D4 is concerned. The D800 is another matter, but if it has the rumoured spec, I don't think anything that Canon might announce is a problem either.

--
Bob
 
Grevture said:
bobn2 said:
I think Canon's recent two releases are a salutary lesson for those saying 'Nikon should do this' (or that). The 1D X is the kind of tame incremental upgrade to the D3s that Nikon should not be making. And the C300 is a lesson about how not to enter a new market area which is already crowded. What Canon has done is see the unexpected success of the 5DII as a movie camera, had a quick look at the products on offer in that market. Then it's said to itself 'I could do that' and produced a 'me too' product. This is a problem. For a start, by the time it's come out it's rather less than 'me too', since the competition has moved on from when Canon said 'I could do that'. The problem with being a new entrant in a market is that you'll have little familiarity with the dynamics of that market, and can easily make specification changes of that type.

If Nikon were to enter the video camera market, it would have to do it in a way similar to apple entered the already packed mobile phone market, with a package which offers something different and changes the game. Exactly what that would be, I don't know because I'm not involved in professional film making, but I have a feeling that the ability to shoot 24MP at 25FPS could be utilised to change the game somewhere.
Click to expand...
A for video, I happen to think Canons relese is at least somewhat logical. They are a fairly big player in the pro video segment (together with the dominant ones, Panasonic and Sony), but has so far not made much of an impact on the pro filming business where brands like Arri has ruled for a long time, but is now under threat from Red and possibly others I know little about. This is an area where Panasonic has sort of almost but not really entered lately with the AG-AF100, and Sony has to my knowledge only shown protoptypes (aside from the VG10/VG20 which seem more like expensive prosumer gear to me).
Click to expand...
It os a market in which Sony is already one of the dominant players, just you haven't looked at the right bit of Sony's product range. You've been looking at the broadcast camera range, not the cinema camera range. Have a look here: http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/content/name/ssw-bc-35mm-2010
you will see a range including:
http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/content/name/ssw-bc-35mm-2010
F65, 8k 35mm camera up to 120FPS
F35, 1080p 35mm camera

Sony's knowledge of this market area is not surprising, since they are one of the major cinema projector suppliers and also a major film production company
http://www.sonypictures.com/corp/corporatefact.html
Kind of helps their access to marketing info.
Grevture said:
The pro film business is a small market, albeit probably with high margins, but I doubt Nikon would have any business there aside from what they indirectly have done in the past - lenses. Think of all the 300/2 which has been converted to PL mount ... I think what would make sense for Nikon would possibly be something like a PL mount version of the say the 14-24 with constant t-value and a aperture without distinct stops and physically built to fit standard focus pullers (like what Schneider and others do with their PL lenses). And possibly some other lens designs they have developed anyway.

But making a pro video/film cam ... That area is just way to busy with much more experienced competitors anyway.
Click to expand...
I agree, unless they have a game changer on their hands. One of which would be a route to doing away with the focus puller. Don't kid yourself that production companies wouldn't welcome the reduction in the size of camera teams. The problem is that AF and power focus technology as currently specced just doesn't suit the way production teams work.

However, I think the job of focus puller could be easily automated, and if that was done, then the value of such a system would be quite large (it would eliminate a salary).
--
Bob
 
bobn2 said:
Grevture said:
bobn2 said:
I think Canon's recent two releases are a salutary lesson for those saying 'Nikon should do this' (or that). The 1D X is the kind of tame incremental upgrade to the D3s that Nikon should not be making. And the C300 is a lesson about how not to enter a new market area which is already crowded. What Canon has done is see the unexpected success of the 5DII as a movie camera, had a quick look at the products on offer in that market. Then it's said to itself 'I could do that' and produced a 'me too' product. This is a problem. For a start, by the time it's come out it's rather less than 'me too', since the competition has moved on from when Canon said 'I could do that'. The problem with being a new entrant in a market is that you'll have little familiarity with the dynamics of that market, and can easily make specification changes of that type.

If Nikon were to enter the video camera market, it would have to do it in a way similar to apple entered the already packed mobile phone market, with a package which offers something different and changes the game. Exactly what that would be, I don't know because I'm not involved in professional film making, but I have a feeling that the ability to shoot 24MP at 25FPS could be utilised to change the game somewhere.
Click to expand...
A for video, I happen to think Canons relese is at least somewhat logical. They are a fairly big player in the pro video segment (together with the dominant ones, Panasonic and Sony), but has so far not made much of an impact on the pro filming business where brands like Arri has ruled for a long time, but is now under threat from Red and possibly others I know little about. This is an area where Panasonic has sort of almost but not really entered lately with the AG-AF100, and Sony has to my knowledge only shown protoptypes (aside from the VG10/VG20 which seem more like expensive prosumer gear to me).
Click to expand...
It os a market in which Sony is already one of the dominant players, just you haven't looked at the right bit of Sony's product range. You've been looking at the broadcast camera range, not the cinema camera range. Have a look here: http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/content/name/ssw-bc-35mm-2010
you will see a range including:
http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/content/name/ssw-bc-35mm-2010
F65, 8k 35mm camera up to 120FPS
F35, 1080p 35mm camera

Sony's knowledge of this market area is not surprising, since they are one of the major cinema projector suppliers and also a major film production company
http://www.sonypictures.com/corp/corporatefact.html
Kind of helps their access to marketing info.
bobn2 said:
The pro film business is a small market, albeit probably with high margins, but I doubt Nikon would have any business there aside from what they indirectly have done in the past - lenses. Think of all the 300/2 which has been converted to PL mount ... I think what would make sense for Nikon would possibly be something like a PL mount version of the say the 14-24 with constant t-value and a aperture without distinct stops and physically built to fit standard focus pullers (like what Schneider and others do with their PL lenses). And possibly some other lens designs they have developed anyway.

But making a pro video/film cam ... That area is just way to busy with much more experienced competitors anyway.
Click to expand...
I agree, unless they have a game changer on their hands. One of which would be a route to doing away with the focus puller. Don't kid yourself that production companies wouldn't welcome the reduction in the size of camera teams. The problem is that AF and power focus technology as currently specced just doesn't suit the way production teams work.

However, I think the job of focus puller could be easily automated, and if that was done, then the value of such a system would be quite large (it would eliminate a salary).
--
Bob
Click to expand...
and it could easily be done ! Just take the autofocus inside a system and attach
it to an I pad or phone and make a graph along a take that adjusts the focus
along a timeline......no need for big and expensive focal puller rigs....
Peter
 
bobn2 said:
Grevture said:
A for video, I happen to think Canons relese is at least somewhat logical. They are a fairly big player in the pro video segment (together with the dominant ones, Panasonic and Sony), but has so far not made much of an impact on the pro filming business where brands like Arri has ruled for a long time, but is now under threat from Red and possibly others I know little about. This is an area where Panasonic has sort of almost but not really entered lately with the AG-AF100, and Sony has to my knowledge only shown protoptypes (aside from the VG10/VG20 which seem more like expensive prosumer gear to me).
Click to expand...
It os a market in which Sony is already one of the dominant players, just you haven't looked at the right bit of Sony's product range. You've been looking at the broadcast camera range, not the cinema camera range. Have a look here: http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/content/name/ssw-bc-35mm-2010
you will see a range including:
http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/content/name/ssw-bc-35mm-2010
F65, 8k 35mm camera up to 120FPS
F35, 1080p 35mm camera
Click to expand...
Ah, thanks! I am aware of their role in the broadcast world (since I occasionally shot stills in that world), but I was rather unaware of their cinema products. But go figure.
bobn2 said:
Sony's knowledge of this market area is not surprising, since they are one of the major cinema projector suppliers and also a major film production company
http://www.sonypictures.com/corp/corporatefact.html
Kind of helps their access to marketing info.
Click to expand...
Agree, and I really think Sony has been clever here - they try to earn money through the entire production chain of media consumption (in general terms) - music, movies, TV, and of course adverstising - from cameras, camera components all the way down to memory cards and all the way up to signing and promoting artists and with plenty of products along the chain.
bobn2 said:
bobn2 said:
The pro film business is a small market, albeit probably with high margins, but I doubt Nikon would have any business there aside from what they indirectly have done in the past - lenses. Think of all the 300/2 which has been converted to PL mount ... I think what would make sense for Nikon would possibly be something like a PL mount version of the say the 14-24 with constant t-value and a aperture without distinct stops and physically built to fit standard focus pullers (like what Schneider and others do with their PL lenses). And possibly some other lens designs they have developed anyway.

But making a pro video/film cam ... That area is just way to busy with much more experienced competitors anyway.
Click to expand...
I agree, unless they have a game changer on their hands. One of which would be a route to doing away with the focus puller. Don't kid yourself that production companies wouldn't welcome the reduction in the size of camera teams. The problem is that AF and power focus technology as currently specced just doesn't suit the way production teams work.

However, I think the job of focus puller could be easily automated, and if that was done, then the value of such a system would be quite large (it would eliminate a salary).
Click to expand...
I really do not belive in AF in a traditional sense ever being much of a factor in the cinema world, maybe to some extent in the broadcast realm. Focus is such an integral part of the creative process it is hard to fully automate as we can do within still imaging.

I rather belive in what you and Peter ("Rayman") say about making focus semi-automatic and programmable - " three seconds with focus at distance A, then quicklly shift to distance B, stay for 1 second and then slowly pull towards distance C ". But AF as we use it today for stills ... Way to unpredictable :)

And back to what Nikon could do ... I think high end broadcasting and cinema is rather areas where Nikon could and should do what they have done for say large format photography - make lenses and possible other parts and products they have expertise in, but leave the heavy investments to those already entrenched in that business.

Nikon can and never should ignore video - it is going to be an integral part of any consumer imaging device (being a P&S, DSLR, mirrorless or whatever comes next) and also in most pro and enthusiast still cameras. But I doubt they will ever enter the pro video/cinema world for much the same reason I doubt Pentax, Oly, Samsung or Panasonic will ever enter the pro still photo world - pro markets are inherently conservative (much due to the heavy investments in accessories). This is why Canon and Nikon will be so hard to dislodge from the pro still market, and this is why companies like Sony, Arri, Panasonic and others will be hard to dislodge from the pro video/cinema market. Red has managed to squeeze in as a newcomer, but that was because they seem to have realised the potential of digital imaging before some of the major players. And that ship has by now sailed.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every moment of it!

By the way, film is not dead.
It just smell funny
 
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