TZ with a viewfinder.

The baby-boomers are on the rise - and they're getting blinder by the day!! They have money to spend on cameras. A clever company would tap into this expanding market and produce cameras with viewfinders and good diopter adjustments - aimed at the aging population with money in their pocket!
But they've already done this; many of the more expensive models have optional, top-mount viewfinders available for those who feel the need, and are willing to pay for it and accept the top-of-camera configuration.
What?!! - they don't want to buy and screw on extra "thingys" - they just want to buy it, lift it to their eye, SEE what they are taking and snap the shot!
As I mentioned in a post above, a majority of users just accept LCD-only as "how it is", after using phone-cameras,
Use a phone-camera? Only teenagers use those! I have enough trouble reading txts and phone numbers! :)
My father-in-law took his Clearviewer-equipped ZS7 on an extended cruise to Bora Bora recently, and said a lot of folks asked about the "thing" behind the screen. When showed how it worked, several were amazed that they could actually "see" what they were shooting, instead of what was "normal" for them. So it's become "normal" to get a general idea of what's in your photo, and actually seeing it well is now an extra, a bonus. 8^) So manufacturers don't have to put a good viewfinder on the camera, seeing is an "extra option".

I still remember a comment in the Canon forum some time ago, discussing the need for a better way to see the LCD, and the comment was "What do you need to see for, it's a point and shoot?" referring to the S90, a $400 camera. Not all of us agree with that.

But some of us do like to use these compacts for things beyond snapshots, and we do have options. Top-mount viewfinders for some models, if you like that configuration, or the Clearviewer if you don't (or for models without EVF options), or the Hoodman or similar units if you'd prefer to carry it along. Or bring two pairs of 3.00x diopter reading glasses with you, and just put them on stacked, one over the other, when you need to see what you're shooting.

Or, if you don't want any "accessories", then what you (can) see is what you get, it's that easy.

I think they're covering that with the add-on viewfinders. First, the camera costs more because it's a higher-end model, then another $150-300 for a viewfinder (the optical glass add-on for LX3's listed at $200, fortunately they were in short supply when I got my LX3 and I couldn't buy one 8^).
Well, why don't the manufacturers put clearviewers on them as standard then? I wear glasses for reading only and it's frustrating having to whip them out to see what's on the LCD! Just build a complete package without "extras" to add on. Viewfinder, clearviewer - I don't care as long as I can SEE what I am taking. Heck - I don't care if it's a bit too big for a tight jeans pocket. Tight jeans ain't so flattering on me now anyway!

(aahh, it's a lost battle I fear :()
Damn! - it's a bummer growing older :)
 
Mikedigi wrote:

Interesting! I was the other way round, I had an FZ8 and FZ38 (and bought and sold 3 DSLRs in between) and tried to use the FZ as my take-anywhere camera. But people like Erik Ohlson kept rabbiting on about the TZs (well done Erik!) and a US import ZS7/TZ10 came up cheap on Ebay so I grabbed one.

I was at exactly at that stage 3 yeses ago too when I gave my dslr to my daughter and started using my TZ's . I just fancied a viewfinder after my experience on holiday, so I wouldn't have to carry reading glasses and keep putting them on and taking them off. I suspect I will go back down that route quite quickly because carrying the FZ48 is becoming irritating already! The image quality is no better either and on a few occasions I'm convinced it's not as good
 
(aahh, it's a lost battle I fear :()
Damn! - it's a bummer growing older :)
I agree (about the lost battle), at least for TZ-style cameras on down. Of course, the perfect solution would be a built-in EVF with good resolution...at least 460k, like the LCD. With little or no increase in size of the camera.

Years ago, after owning a Sharp camcorder, I said I'd never buy an LCD only camera again, but it got to be too limiting, so I gave up on that one. I don't want to have to ignore cameras I really like and buy one I don't like, because it has a viewfinder. So few compacts have them now, and most that do are like the G10-12, inadequate optical finders.

Plus, they'd have to give up touch screens, their latest "must have" feature, because with a viewfinder your nose would be focusing and snapping photos 8^)

But getting older isn't so bad, at least considering the alternative...8^)

--
Gary
Photo albums: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse
 
Have you looked at the Clearviewer (clearviewer.com)? I put one on my LX-5 some months ago and it never leaves the camera because it works so well as a replacement for the VF made for the LX-5, for a fraction of the price. Screws into the tripod mount.
 
Have you looked at the Clearviewer (clearviewer.com)? I put one on my LX-5 some months ago and it never leaves the camera because it works so well as a replacement for the VF made for the LX-5, for a fraction of the price. Screws into the tripod mount.
Yes, Geoff, we had been discussing that, exactly, on page one of this thread ;)
I fully understand your sentiments, there, and I felt the same until I got the Clearviewer. I find that although it does add about 9mm to the camera's thickness just behind the lens' about 7mm hump, I find I don't notice the added volume in my front pants pocket. . . . .
I was surprised by your pic of the Clearviewer. I would have thought that the top priority was to shade the LCD , not to magniify it? Like with a four-sided box, open at the rear?

Mike
Very well stated, Mike - a 4-sided box, open, but with a magnifier at the rear. The Magnifier isn't so much to "Magnify", but to allow a person's eye to focus on the LCD.

Here's what I used before I got the Clearviewer - a Kodak slide viewer with the white plastic diffuser removed.

As used, with my TZ-1:





Without the camera [it can still be used to view slides!]:





As you can see, [from the photos on the previous page] the Clearviewer is similar, but screws into the tripod socket, and folds in a more logical manner. The Kodak thing had to be carried separately, and held in place while viewing.

SO the Clearviewer turns the LCD into a big, effective EVF for LOTS less money than the ones Panasonic sells for the LX cameras.

And I have a "TZ" - WITH an "EVF", that I hold right up to my eye like a REAL viewfinder - what I always wanted! :P

-Erik

--
DP Review Supporter.



'He who hesitates is not only lost - he's miles from the next Exit.'
http://www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/
 
I use a ClearViewer on my LX3, but on the smaller LCD of the Canon TX1 I also use another form of slide viewer. It provides a virtual EVF experience, more than doubling the apparent width of the screen, making the tiny icons clearly visible.

So with both cameras I can leave my glasses on and have the viewfinder in focus with my right eye, and at the same time, with my left eye, be aware of what is happening in the distant subject area.









--
Cyril
 
Erik, with that design, unless your left eye is the dominant one your nose will be hitting the LCD. With most people the right eye is dominant, which is why most VFs are on the left side of most larger cameras, so the nose can avoid hitting the LCD. Left eyed professionals look very awkward using most DSLRs!
--
Cyril
 
Erik, with that design, unless your left eye is the dominant one your nose will be hitting the LCD. With most people the right eye is dominant, which is why most VFs are on the left side of most larger cameras, so the nose can avoid hitting the LCD. Left eyed professionals look very awkward using most DSLRs!
--
Cyril
Cyril,

I take it you are referring to my first posting in this thread, of the Photoshopped "TZ-EVF camera".

You are right on both counts: I do have a left-dominant eye, and a "Right-eye" person would hit the LCD - and do all sorts of strange things on a touch screen!

I realized that at the time [may, 2010]. The intent was to show that in all likelihood room for such an EVF could be found in a small camera, and that it could be done without moving all of the controls or taking room away from the LCD, not a "finished design".

What you might call "talking points."

For quite a while before that, I had been suggesting a folding, mirrored built-in EVF on the left utilizing the basic mechanism of the LX3 flash.

Then I found Clearviewer and it all became 'moot'.

Anyway, with the clearviewer and our slide viewers, the nose is quite far enough from the LCD! ;)

-Erik

--
DP Review Supporter.



'He who hesitates is not only lost - he's miles from the next Exit.'
http://www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/
 
Erik, thank you for confirming my assumptions. My memory goes back to cameras of the 30s and 40s, when several low cost models were made with useful OVFs that folded flat against the body. Some, on movie cameras with rotating lens turrets, even had etched markings to indicate the coverage of different lenses. If manufacturers want to keep their models small, I would have thought they might consider a similar, simple, 'retro' addition to their products, to satisfy us odd folks who prefer VFs to LCDs.
--
Cyril
 
You could say that a TZ with a viewfinder is called a Fuji X10.
LOL.
 
You could say that a TZ with a viewfinder is called a Fuji X10.
LOL.
 
No problem, Mike - rather a compliment.

The guy who used to spell it that way on the forum seemed a nice guy,
Thanks for the kind words Erik, I can say the same about you.

Let me add a "+1" to those who ask for a compact camera with an EVF. Though I think it's best in the top left corner. If the LCD has to be smaller, that's not a problem if the EVF is decent. I would even consider buying a camera without an LCD on the back. Just think of all the room for buttons and dials!
--
Just my two öre,
Erik from Sweden
 
No problem, Mike - rather a compliment.

The guy who used to spell it that way on the forum seemed a nice guy,
Thanks for the kind words Erik, I can say the same about you.

Let me add a "+1" to those who ask for a compact camera with an EVF. Though I think it's best in the top left corner. If the LCD has to be smaller, that's not a problem if the EVF is decent. I would even consider buying a camera without an LCD on the back. Just think of all the room for buttons and dials!
--
Just my two öre,
Erik from Sweden
Tak-tak, Ehrik, Jag bode entid i Hammarbyhöjden, men min svensk är "barnspråk".....

....So I post in english ;)

In reality, my original idea was for a "Pop-Up" EVF in the left corner based on the LX3 flash, and having a folding mirror "looking at" a small EVF screen, "looking" up, as in this sketch. The mirror is folded flat on top of the EVF screen in the left-hand sketch:





Shouldn't be too difficult, and then we'd have a true EVF-TZ. I Agree - I'd buy a camera with a smaller LCD or maybe even without an LCD, to have a built-in EVF.

Until then I'm happy with my clearviewer.

-Erik

--
DP Review Supporter.



'He who hesitates is not only lost - he's miles from the next Exit.'
http://www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/
 
Having read nothing but positive reports about the clearviewer I decided it would be stupid to dismiss them just because they didn't initially appeal to me so I've ordered one. I think my decision was made easier following a weekend away where I realised lugging even a lightweight FZ 48 around was a p.i.t.a. I think the image quality is no better than my TZ8 as well.
 
Having read nothing but positive reports about the clearviewer I decided it would be stupid to dismiss them just because they didn't initially appeal to me so I've ordered one. I think my decision was made easier following a weekend away where I realised lugging even a lightweight FZ 48 around was a p.i.t.a. I think the image quality is no better than my TZ8 as well.
You are going like it Dave. I have one on my Zs3 all the time. My zs has almost become a replacement for my, dare I say, FZ50. No one curse me, please!!! ;-)
Daniel
--
http://danielsonkin.smugmug.com/
 
Having read nothing but positive reports about the clearviewer I decided it would be stupid to dismiss them just because they didn't initially appeal to me so I've ordered one. I think my decision was made easier following a weekend away where I realised lugging even a lightweight FZ 48 around was a p.i.t.a. I think the image quality is no better than my TZ8 as well.
You are going like it Dave. I have one on my Zs3 all the time. My zs has almost become a replacement for my, dare I say, FZ50. No one curse me, please!!! ;-)
Daniel
--
http://danielsonkin.smugmug.com/
Well then - my clearviewer just arrived. I fitted it to the TZ and I'm basically blown away! This is a total revelation and means I can now consider buying one of the smaller 4/3rds cameras that I dismissed out of hand due to them having no VF. Many thanks Daniel and particular thanks to Erik Ohlson, whose enthusiasm for the clearviewer prompted me to try one
 
Having read nothing but positive reports about the clearviewer I decided it would be stupid to dismiss them just because they didn't initially appeal to me so I've ordered one. I think my decision was made easier following a weekend away where I realised lugging even a lightweight FZ 48 around was a p.i.t.a. I think the image quality is no better than my TZ8 as well.
You are going like it Dave. I have one on my Zs3 all the time. My zs has almost become a replacement for my, dare I say, FZ50. No one curse me, please!!! ;-)
Daniel
--
http://danielsonkin.smugmug.com/
Well then - my clearviewer just arrived. I fitted it to the TZ and I'm basically blown away! This is a total revelation and means I can now consider buying one of the smaller 4/3rds cameras that I dismissed out of hand due to them having no VF. Many thanks Daniel and particular thanks to Erik Ohlson, whose enthusiasm for the clearviewer prompted me to try one
So Glad that you like it Dave. You know, Gary R. is the developer. So he deserves a hearty thanks too. What I appreciate about him is that he doesn't use this forum to push his product (which is against the rules, but that doesn't stop some people). He doesn't need to with so many happy customers. Enjoy your TZ with it's new viewfinder. :-)
Take care,
Daniel
--
http://danielsonkin.smugmug.com/
 
Having read nothing but positive reports about the clearviewer I decided it would be stupid to dismiss them just because they didn't initially appeal to me so I've ordered one. I think my decision was made easier following a weekend away where I realised lugging even a lightweight FZ 48 around was a p.i.t.a. I think the image quality is no better than my TZ8 as well.
You are going like it Dave. I have one on my Zs3 all the time. My zs has almost become a replacement for my, dare I say, FZ50. No one curse me, please!!! ;-)
Daniel
--
http://danielsonkin.smugmug.com/
Well then - my clearviewer just arrived. I fitted it to the TZ and I'm basically blown away! This is a total revelation and means I can now consider buying one of the smaller 4/3rds cameras that I dismissed out of hand due to them having no VF. Many thanks Daniel and particular thanks to Erik Ohlson, whose enthusiasm for the clearviewer prompted me to try one
So Glad that you like it Dave. You know, Gary R. is the developer. So he deserves a hearty thanks too. What I appreciate about him is that he doesn't use this forum to push his product (which is against the rules, but that doesn't stop some people). He doesn't need to with so many happy customers. Enjoy your TZ with it's new viewfinder. :-)
Take care,
Daniel
--
http://danielsonkin.smugmug.com/
Well said, Daniel.

I guess the only thing that keeps me from saying more than I already do about the Clearviewer is that it already embarrasses me that I mention it so much.

I only do it because this is exactly what these "TZ Type" cameras [of all brands] need - a decent viewfinder.

Saudidave : so glad you like it!

It's always strange to recommend something and hope the person is OK with it. We have probably all done that with a restaurant or the like, only to find that the person we suggested it to had a bad experience.

I do "rabbit on" about this & the Plastic Bag thing -- but only because I think these actually are valuable ideas that can make real change to the camera's uses.

-Erik

--
DP Review Supporter.



'He who hesitates is not only lost - he's miles from the next Exit.'
http://www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ [email protected]
 
So Glad that you like it Dave. You know, Gary R. is the developer. So he deserves a hearty thanks too. What I appreciate about him is that he doesn't use this forum to push his product (which is against the rules, but that doesn't stop some people). He doesn't need to with so many happy customers. Enjoy your TZ with it's new viewfinder. :-)
Take care,
Daniel
--
http://danielsonkin.smugmug.com/
Daniel, I've already emailed him directly to thank him.

P.S. Do you know anyone who is looking for an FZ48, about a month old and virtually unused? Mine's on ebay this weekend!
 
Saudidave : so glad you like it!

It's always strange to recommend something and hope the person is OK with it. We have probably all done that with a restaurant or the like, only to find that the person we suggested it to had a bad experience.

I do "rabbit on" about this & the Plastic Bag thing -- but only because I think these actually are valuable ideas that can make real change to the camera's uses.

-Erik
Erik

Thanks for rabbiting on - It was your enthusiasm for it that convinced me it was worth a try. - Dave
 

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