There will be no D800 for quite a while

What is mental is the idea that 'pixels' are expensive.
No one has said that "pixels" are expensive.
Larger chips are, though.
Top of the line, however, is expensive, because some people have to have it, and it would be criminal for Nikon to give it away at less than market price. It would be a gross betrayal of trust by the management of the company on its shareholders.
It's a little more complicated than just "it's expensive because some people have to have it." There are things in top-of-the-line cameras that do cost more money. No, not always 5x or 8x the price of say a 3100 or whatever the low-end body is now, but certainly more.
D300 vs D2x anyone?
The D2X was expensive because it was top of the line at the time of its introduction.
It also cost more to make then, and it's body was a higher quality than the D300 body.
FX replaced DX in the high end (for most applications) and so the price of the DX offerings were reduced since it could no longer claim top of the line status.
1) DX (and FX) cost less to make now, and will cost even less in the future.

2) FX costs more than DX to make. The suggestion that it's just a pricing game isn't entirely accurate. Pricing is a part of it, but certainly not all of it.
The D3s is less expensive than the D3X not because it has fewer pixels but because it's vastly more popular. Greater volume => lower price.
I'm sure that's a part of it. I'd be curious about yields too. And, I doubt sony gave the chip to nikon at cost.
 
D
The D800 is quite a ridiculous rumour, don't you think?
no.
I mean, think about it. A camera with 50% more pixels than the flagship D3X, just as fast and with much higher ISO, all in a consumer body a third the price.
Let's start with "fast"--what do you mean by "just as fast"? Because that doesn't sound like a consumer body. High-end AF doesn't sound consumer. Top-end video specs doesn't sound consumer. Generous battery life doesn't sound consumer. The D700 was not a consumer camera. It was priced much more within the reach of "consumers," but it is a fully pro, workhorse camera. The D800 would very likely follow that path. And to that end, it won't be 1/3rd the cost. Half would probably be a minimum. I'd be surprised if a D800 at 36 MPs or thereabouts were any less than 4K. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see 4.5K MSRP.
It would instantly make the all the top current cameras obsolete (D3S, D300S, D400, D4X), at a fraction of the price,
It obsoletes cameras that don't even exist yet? Wow. I can hardly wait to see this thing. Seriously, The D4 market will continue to exist and will be served with a D4 camera that is different and better suited to that market. That is a different group of users than the D800 group, and the D800 won't obsolete their needs.
 
Canon 5dII ... more attractive to most buyers.
You're kidding, right? Nothing wrong with the 5D MkII, it's a great camera. But the D700 absolutely blows the 5D away in every way except # of MP's and video. The video crowd, though vocal, is a small group. The 5D's MP's are needed by certain studio and landscape photographers. Combined, I don't know you can say video, and some percentage of studio\landscapers are "most buyers".

Canon has yet to launch anything to close to the D700, and that is why thousands of Canon shooters gave up hoping for a one when the MkII was announced, and switched to Nikon. There seems to be as many if not more Canon shooters lamenting that the MkII is no D700 as there are Nikon shooters complaining that the D700 is not a 5D MkII.

The reality is these cameras are very different tools designed for different purposes. Both are great at what they were designed for, and anyone who buys one, when what they need is the other, and then complains about it, is a fool.
 
It would be a gross betrayal of trust by the management of the company on its shareholders.
Possibly, and I'm sure the shareholders would give the Nikon management a standing ovation if they'd succeed in taking the the 'pros' from behind yet again based on exclusive MP count for masochists that let themselves be chastised by their lens mount.

The reality though is that their funky 'soccer mom camera' shoots 72MP in FF terms at D3s noise levels. So I truly hope that they, for once, create a reasonable sized (read D700) camera at a reasonable price (read D700) with that amateur tech (read V1) inside. Which comes down to a D700 with 72MP and D3s noise levels when scaled down to 12MP.

--
Philip

 
The D3s is less expensive than the D3X not because it has fewer pixels but because it's vastly more popular. Greater volume => lower price.
This is not accurate at all. You must not have been shooting Nikon when the D3 and D3X were released -- or you ignored a couple major incidents when they occurred.

The D3 was released when the yen was weak against the USD and other currencies. As the world fell into a recession the yen became stronger against other currencies. Additionally, Nikon had big losses from the bankruptcies of major retailers such as CompUSA, which owed them $15M.

Their greedy manager response to these two conditions was to pass their loss on to their customers.

Instead of pricing the D3X fairly at $5,495 or less Nikon released the camera at an astounding $8,000 rip off price.
 
Their greedy manager response to these two conditions was to pass their loss on to their customers.
What then was the reason for the $8000 price of the 1Ds, the 1Ds Mk II, the 1Ds Mk III, and the $6700 (?) price of the 1D X? It doesn't seem to depend much on economic conditions.
Instead of pricing the D3X fairly at $5,495 or less Nikon released the camera at an astounding $8,000 rip off price.
Actually Nikon's official response is (quoting from memory since I don't have the article with me) this: they looked at competing products such as the 1Ds Mk III, which was priced at around $7000, and medium format cameras and simply priced the D3X at a point where they thought it was fairly priced considering the features and image quality and the competition's products. It is a specialized product for a small market of professionals who must have it.

Economic conditions have little to do with the pricing. +-10% maybe. In any way it was 8000 EUR when new, and today it sells for 6000 EUR so the price has come down due to it no longer being the newest model (though still Nikon's only high resolution FX camera).

The D3 was also priced against competing products which was the 1D Mk II or III (don't remember which), and since it was full frame and produced better image quality it was a bit more expensive. But not unduly more expensive. By the way today the 1Ds Mk III is more expensive than the D3X, and significantly so. This is probably because the Nikon product is selling a bit better as it is the only high resolution FX model in Nikon's lineup whereas the 1Ds Mk III has to share the market with the 5D Mk II.

Look at the pricing of the D3 and D700 - which are almost identical cameras except for the housing. The other is half the price of the latter. This "other half" is just based on the lower volume of sales of the D3 chassis cameras (since most amateurs don't want a big durable casing like that) and the fact that it's a professional market where the customer is willing to pay more and expects to get a bit better sealing and robustness. And of course the fact that when the D3 was new, there was no D700. You could say that the difference in price between D3 and D700 was just a lot of hot air, but the reality of it is that a company has the legal obligation to make money for its shareholders . That's why they ask as much as they can for a product intended for a market which really needs it (i.e. the D3s, D3X etc.) For consumer products such as the D700 they sell it for less since the market can pay less. Nothing here has to do with how many pixels it has. And the price fluctuations due to economic conditions are minor.
 
Great post, but the question for several years has been why not put the D3x sensor in a D700 body. Minimal R&D, maximize payback from existing technology before future developments pass them by. Nikon could have set almost any price up to that of the D3s, and they likely could have sold all that they could produce. And D3x bodies have always been limited - you can't make money on what you don't have available to sell.

There are a lot more buyers in the $3-5k range than $8k - why leave the money on the table?
 
Great post, but the question for several years has been why not put the D3x sensor in a D700 body.
I do not have the answer to that. I suspect that Nikon decided that four FX cameras in production at the same time is too much in the current economic climate.
 
Great post, but the question for several years has been why not put the D3x sensor in a D700 body.
I do not have the answer to that. I suspect that Nikon decided that four FX cameras in production at the same time is too much in the current economic climate.
They also did not update the D700 to the D3S sensor technology. It would have been easy to do technically. If the manufacturing price would be the same, I guess that Nikon would have upgraded the D700.

I suspect (but have no proof whatsoever) that the D3X (and maybe the D3S) contain something expensive, e.g., a special microlens arrangement or CFA, in addition to the basic sensor silicon. That would explain image quality differences (from D3X to Sony A900) and between D3S and D3. There are almost certainly differences in the CFA. There could also be expensive ADC designs (e.g., needing manual calibration) that could not be transferred to D700 price levels.
 
Great post, but the question for several years has been why not put the D3x sensor in a D700 body.
I do not have the answer to that. I suspect that Nikon decided that four FX cameras in production at the same time is too much in the current economic climate.
They also did not update the D700 to the D3S sensor technology. It would have been easy to do technically. If the manufacturing price would be the same, I guess that Nikon would have upgraded the D700.

I suspect (but have no proof whatsoever) that the D3X (and maybe the D3S) contain something expensive, e.g., a special microlens arrangement or CFA, in addition to the basic sensor silicon. That would explain image quality differences (from D3X to Sony A900) and between D3S and D3. There are almost certainly differences in the CFA. There could also be expensive ADC designs (e.g., needing manual calibration) that could not be transferred to D700 price levels.
More likely it's just product differentiation.

--
Philip

 

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