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Is it possible to dislike the A77?

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kiet

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I know I will get flamed for this but…

I do not like the A77. I don’t like at all compared to Canon’s 7D. After 4 days and nearly 1500 shots I find the A77 very unappealing.

Disclaimer: I have been a Canon user since 2000 and before that I used a combination of Nikon and Minolta. I currently own a 7D and 5D II.

I don’t like the A77 on 3 fronts: ergonomics & design, responsiveness, and image quality.

1) Ergonomics and design. The number of buttons dials and joystick is dizzying. The worst thing is the focus selector. You need to flip the camera around to select the focus mode. With a big lens attached this is extremely annoying.

2) Responsiveness. My camera is on firmware 1.0.3 and the dial selector response is unacceptably slow for sport photography.

3) Image Quality. At ISO 400 and under it’s as clean as any other DSLR. Above 640 there are huge difference in output base on which RAW converter you use.

My overall comparison to the 7D is it takes longer to fiddle with the buttons and dials to get the right settings, it takes longer to get the camera to register setting changes, and it takes more effort to get clean outputs above ISO 640.

As a standalone DSLR it’s pretty good if you can tolerate the shortcomings. For those you already own a Canon or Nikon these flaws will annoy you to no end.
 
kiet said:
I know I will get flamed for this but…

I do not like the A77. I don’t like at all compared to Canon’s 7D. After 4 days and nearly 1500 shots I find the A77 very unappealing.

Disclaimer: I have been a Canon user since 2000 and before that I used a combination of Nikon and Minolta. I currently own a 7D and 5D II.

I don’t like the A77 on 3 fronts: ergonomics & design, responsiveness, and image quality.

1) Ergonomics and design. The number of buttons dials and joystick is dizzying. The worst thing is the focus selector. You need to flip the camera around to select the focus mode. With a big lens attached this is extremely annoying.

2) Responsiveness. My camera is on firmware 1.0.3 and the dial selector response is unacceptably slow for sport photography.

3) Image Quality. At ISO 400 and under it’s as clean as any other DSLR. Above 640 there are huge difference in output base on which RAW converter you use.

My overall comparison to the 7D is it takes longer to fiddle with the buttons and dials to get the right settings, it takes longer to get the camera to register setting changes, and it takes more effort to get clean outputs above ISO 640.

As a standalone DSLR it’s pretty good if you can tolerate the shortcomings. For those you already own a Canon or Nikon these flaws will annoy you to no end.
Click to expand...
So may I ask, what compelled you to actually buy the a77 if you are happy with your Canon gear and what feature(s) initially attracted you to the a77?

Best regards,
Jon
 
Your opinion is very objective and even though I would like to argue against it, I will not since I never owned a Canon 7D. All I know is that I love my A77 for exactly for the opposite reasons that you dislike yours.
--
  • May the good light always be with you! - Karl: A77 - (8/10-20/18-250/50-500mm)
 
There is no such thing as the perfect camera, what works for me might not work for you. I find the camera easy to use (coming from the a700) and responsiveness is perfectly fine for me even on slower responsive machines I tend to get used to the delay and work with it (I do not do sports, so no idea on that), might be if you cross use multiple camera's its an issue.

If it does not work for you, or you can't get used to it I'd replace it, after all its only a tool and it should work for you.

Main question of course, do the drawbacks outweigh the benefits...something only you can answer.

Happy shooting!

--
Shamelessly promoting my favourite painters website (my wife's :) )
http://EdithsArt.nl
 
A few quick thoughts:
  • Ergonomics. This is a tough one when switching from one system to another. I happen to love the layout of the A77, but I also find myself frustrated, not by the camera, but by my own old habits that I'm slowly breaking. I was so used to my previous Nikon. With time, the new way becomes habit and the previous way will feel wrong. I've only had my A77 for a week, and I just sold my Nikon today, but already, my Nikon was starting to feel clumsy - not because it's poorly designed. It's just that I'm starting to feel used to the A77. These things take time.
  • Responsiveness: Yup. I'm convinced this will be addressed with the rumored firmware 2.0.
Keep in mind, every camera will have things that you'd wish were different. On my Nikon D7000, I hated where they put one of the rubber latch doors.... it was right under where my fingers fit around the grip. I was constantly flicking it open. Drove me nuts.
--
This is the world, the way I see it: http://twenty200.com
 
kiet said:
I know I will get flamed for this but…

I do not like the A77. I don’t like at all compared to Canon’s 7D. After 4 days and nearly 1500 shots I find the A77 very unappealing.

Disclaimer: I have been a Canon user since 2000 and before that I used a combination of Nikon and Minolta. I currently own a 7D and 5D II.

I don’t like the A77 on 3 fronts: ergonomics & design, responsiveness, and image quality.

1) Ergonomics and design. The number of buttons dials and joystick is dizzying. The worst thing is the focus selector. You need to flip the camera around to select the focus mode. With a big lens attached this is extremely annoying.

2) Responsiveness. My camera is on firmware 1.0.3 and the dial selector response is unacceptably slow for sport photography.

3) Image Quality. At ISO 400 and under it’s as clean as any other DSLR. Above 640 there are huge difference in output base on which RAW converter you use.

My overall comparison to the 7D is it takes longer to fiddle with the buttons and dials to get the right settings, it takes longer to get the camera to register setting changes, and it takes more effort to get clean outputs above ISO 640.

As a standalone DSLR it’s pretty good if you can tolerate the shortcomings. For those you already own a Canon or Nikon these flaws will annoy you to no end.
Click to expand...
Um. No.

I came from a canon 7d to the a77 and would never consider going back. You can't remember 4 options for the focus select dial? After a wweek I don't have to rremove my eye from the vviewfinder to ddo anything. The buttons are like shortcuts on a computer desktop, taking you straight to given options. Do you use a PC with only "my computer" as an icon? If your intimidated by remembering what a few buttons do, how the hell do you use a modern cell phone?

Your comparing RAW output from the a77 to cameras that have been out for years? Seriously? Christ, the a77 just got raw support a few weeks ago. It'll get better. In the meantime read the forums hhere talking aabout the JPEG engine, and dont give mme tthat raw BS about you can do this or that with raw that you can't with JPEG. I've been sshooting canon for over 15 years and have always done my own photo PP- there is little that can be done to a raw that can't be achieved on a JPEG with the a77. So instead of judging raw output of the camera based on results from converters that are literally weeks old, mess with JPEG PP. And give the converters time to catch up.

Oh and you know you have mode recall rright? How does using this tske longer to register settings? Set up a mode for each type of sport you shoot and viola, no settings to register when you go to shoot. I am a sports photographer, shooting everything from horse jump competitions to soccer. I find the a77 perfectly responsive enough for any sports that I've shot, and great for bird photos, which are generally much faster than ssports.

Excuse typos and double lletters- typing on a tablet touchscreen and got tired of correcting errors.

Landon
 
Err0xx said:
I came from a canon 7d to the a77 and would never consider going back.

I find the a77 perfectly responsive enough for any sports that I've shot, and great for bird photos, which are generally much faster than ssports.
Click to expand...
That's interesting because I'm a 7D user, and plan on buying the A77.

I shoot aviation and motor sports, so I believe the 24mp would allow for a lot of cropping, and still maintain good IQ. Is this a big advantage for you, in your sports shooting?

I have the 7D, 70-200 f2.8 IS II, and 300 f2.8 IS. I'm very satisfied with my Canon gear, but I'd like to see how the A77 and 70-400G perform. On the used market is the Minolta 300 f4 HS, which I have an interest in. It's said to be a stellar lens.

Who knows, maybe I'll buy the A77 and never go back. ;)
 
jonikon said:
So may I ask, what compelled you to actually buy the a77 if you are happy with your Canon gear and what feature(s) initially attracted you to the a77?
Click to expand...
I am always looking for better tools for my craft: I have no brand loyalty whatsoever. I posted my little editorial because I felt that people tend to defend their purchase decision at the cost of the product’s shortcomings. I am not saying the A77 is inferior to the 7D or any other camera, I just happen to dislike it... A LOT. If I thought the 7D was perfect I wouldn’t have bought the A77. I can go on and on about all the things I dislike about the Canon but this is not the forum for that. In short, I dislike the 7D less than the A77.

Yes, no camera is perfect but I think people tend to overlook the shortcomings in order to justify their purchase.

BTW, this is my second experience with Sony. The other was an A900 which I later traded for a Canon 5D II due to better noise performance and smaller size.
 
kiet said:
Yes, no camera is perfect but I think people tend to overlook the shortcomings in order to justify their purchase.
Click to expand...
Or it could be that people are different in what works for them. Ingrained habits are the worst enemy of learning new gear, and you've got plenty of those - and your gripes mostly are with having to change how you do things and learn a new tool.

It's perfectly reasonable to dislike a tool because it's different from what you're used to and hard to get to grips with. What isn't reasonable is to from this conclude that others are "justifying their purchase" when they do not share your dislike.

That's a childish reaction, not that of a professional.

Jesper
 
BigBen08 said:
Err0xx said:
I came from a canon 7d to the a77 and would never consider going back.

I find the a77 perfectly responsive enough for any sports that I've shot, and great for bird photos, which are generally much faster than ssports.
Click to expand...
That's interesting because I'm a 7D user, and plan on buying the A77.

I shoot aviation and motor sports, so I believe the 24mp would allow for a lot of cropping, and still maintain good IQ. Is this a big advantage for you, in your sports shooting?

I have the 7D, 70-200 f2.8 IS II, and 300 f2.8 IS. I'm very satisfied with my Canon gear, but I'd like to see how the A77 and 70-400G perform. On the used market is the Minolta 300 f4 HS, which I have an interest in. It's said to be a stellar lens.

Who knows, maybe I'll buy the A77 and never go back. ;)
Click to expand...
I think that the IQ is a huge advantage. the color accuracy reproduction is stellar and I like to print big. being able to read the underarmour symbol on the jersey of a football player diving for the end zone is wonderfully satisfying to me. especially when viewed on an 18" or larger print. I HIGHLY recommend a fast 95mb/s UHS-I card for 12 fps shooting. there is a link in a forum on here for a 64gb one for $226. good price for that speed and space and well worth the investment. I have a 95mb/s card and can shoot all day doing 5-8 shot bursts at 12fps speed. the Sony 70-400g is a STELLAR lens and you will fall in love with the a77's in-body lens stabilization. I love using non stabilized lenses with my can-do steadyshot is great. any questions feel free to ask. I don't miss my 7d even a little. sold 8 canon lenses jumping ship to Sony and don't regret it for a second.

Landon

EDIT: The shot I used in my example of being able to see the underarmour symbol perfectly is an 80% crop printed on 20" portrait photo paper. that kind of minor detail on an image blown up that big would be hard to get on a moving subject without the a77's stellar IQ. I can imagine this cam would be crazy good for motorsports.
 
theswede said:
It's perfectly reasonable to dislike a tool because it's different from what you're used to and hard to get to grips with. What isn't reasonable is to from this conclude that others are "justifying their purchase" when they do not share your dislike.
Click to expand...
This is the type if response that starts unnecessary flame wars so let me say that you are absolutely right and I concede to all your points.

It is absolutely stupid of me not to want to look in front of the camera to change focus mode. And I can’t believe they don’t have more dials and buttons in the back of the camera. WHERE IS THE PRINT BUTTON?!

I am sure Sony intentionally designed the lag in the dial because most of the time I am unsure of the setting I want to change to and need a moment to think about it. The shot I missed I didn’t want anyway.
Lastly who cares about RAW. You can’t post RAW on Facebook anyway.

As you concluded it’s me who can’t adapt to the camera.
 
kiet said:
It is absolutely stupid of me not to want to look in front of the camera to change focus mode.
Click to expand...
S,A,C,M.

Takes probably an hour of using the camera to get used to it, then you can change focus mode in half a second at any time while keeping the camera at eye-level. With my previous camera I had to take the camera down, enter a menu, select focus mode, select what I wanted.

Not to mention that one of those pesky buttons on the back right under your thumb allow you to switch between AF and MF in less time than what you need to think about it :D

About responsiveness I fully agree, it's frustrating.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kilrah/
http://www.youtube.com/user/kilrahvp
 
kiet said:
I know I will get flamed for this but…

I do not like the A77. I don’t like at all compared to Canon’s 7D. After 4 days and nearly 1500 shots I find the A77 very unappealing....

1) Ergonomics and design. The number of buttons dials and joystick is dizzying. The worst thing is the focus selector. You need to flip the camera around to select the focus mode. With a big lens attached this is extremely annoying.
Click to expand...
Sounds like simply a lack of familiarity with that type of UI - the same reason why whenever I've tried a Canon camera I wince and say "why bother?" All a-mount cameras of 7 and higher series since the maxxum 7 have had the same Focus mode sequence: M -> AF-C -> AF-A -> AF-S. I find that very easy to remember (I'm no where near a camera now), and very easily make the correct setting without taking my eye from the VF. With the A77 EVF showing the changes the learning curve should drop to almost nothing.

My complaint with the A77 is that Sony removed some of the direct setting switches - the metering mode switch and the SSS switch - from the body. And in both the A700 and A77, they removed the 3 user defined memories from the mode dial turning a one step operation into a multi step operation.

With the A700, there was no way to switch from memory 1 to memory 2 without 2 mode dial movements plus having to look at the back of the camera to select 1,2, or 3. At least the EVF on the A77 allows that second selection to be made with your eve to the VF.

The A850 and A900 operate like the Minolta Maxxum 7 - where all three memories are on the mode dial and changing from 1 to an other is a simple click of the mode dial. With my 7 I used to shoot in dark venues and change 7 or 8 settings with one click without taking the camera from my eye.
kiet said:
2) Responsiveness. My camera is on firmware 1.0.3 and the dial selector response is unacceptably slow for sport photography.
Click to expand...
The delay in responding to changes in settings that I have read about would drive me crazy. Hopefull, they will fix that in firmware.
kiet said:
3) Image Quality. At ISO 400 and under it’s as clean as any other DSLR. Above 640 there are huge difference in output base on which RAW converter you use.
Click to expand...
I haven't tried so I can't comment.
kiet said:
My overall comparison to the 7D is it takes longer to fiddle with the buttons and dials to get the right settings, it takes longer to get the camera to register setting changes, and it takes more effort to get clean outputs above ISO 640.

As a standalone DSLR it’s pretty good if you can tolerate the shortcomings. For those you already own a Canon or Nikon these flaws will annoy you to no end.
Click to expand...
And likewise one of the reasons I haven't switched to Canikon (going back to 2000 when I seriously evaluated all the options as well as a couple of more recent attempts), is that I find their UI to be totally annoying. Some people like one type of UI and some like a different. My problem with Sony is that they seem to be trying to have both in one camera, and are taking away direct controls that I find useful for still photography.

tom
 
kiet said:
This is the type if response that starts unnecessary flame wars so let me say that you are absolutely right and I concede to all your points.
Click to expand...
You fired the first shot by claiming that those who do not share your dislikes (or aren't particularly bothered with them) are "justifying their purchase". That's a very strong, aggressive statement right in the face of those who enjoy using their new tool. If you consider getting called on that starting an unnecessary flame war, consider it started. =)
kiet said:
It is absolutely stupid of me not to want to look in front of the camera to change focus mode.
Click to expand...
If you have to look, you don't use it much, and then it's not much of an issue, is it?
kiet said:
And I can’t believe they don’t have more dials and buttons in the back of the camera. WHERE IS THE PRINT BUTTON?!
Click to expand...
No idea. Why do you want one?
kiet said:
I am sure Sony intentionally designed the lag in the dial because most of the time I am unsure of the setting I want to change to and need a moment to think about it. The shot I missed I didn’t want anyway.
Click to expand...
The lag is the one thing which is probably pretty universally disliked. I sincerely hope Sony can improve it in a firmware update. If they can't, it's an annoyance for many, but (hopefully) an obstacle for few.
kiet said:
Lastly who cares about RAW. You can’t post RAW on Facebook anyway.
Click to expand...
I think the people who offer RAW converters care about RAW, and still have to get their act together on the new format from the A77. I expect rather amazing leaps in what can be squeezed out of the RAW files in the following month or two, now that the material to work from is starting to appear. It's not like you can make RAW converters without, wait for it, raw material. He he.
kiet said:
As you concluded it’s me who can’t adapt to the camera.
Click to expand...
Can't, won't, haven't put enough time on it, whatever. It's the absolutely most common source of frustration with new tools, and the most common source of negative reviews. Ok, the lag times have nothing to do with that, and the RAW converters aren't mature.

Jesper
 
I personally think your just "baiting for an argument,
As you said earlier;

"This is the type if response that starts unnecessary flame wars so let me say that you are absolutely right and I concede to all your points.

It is absolutely stupid of me not to want to look in front of the camera to change focus mode. And I can’t believe they don’t have more dials and buttons in the back of the camera. WHERE IS THE PRINT BUTTON?!

I am sure Sony intentionally designed the lag in the dial because most of the time I am unsure of the setting I want to change to and need a moment to think about it. The shot I missed I didn’t want anyway.
Lastly who cares about RAW. You can’t post RAW on Facebook anyway.

As you concluded it’s me who can’t adapt to the camera."

Plus in your original thread, your last sentence was to the effect of Canon/Nikon owners wouldn't "put up" with the A77 for a minute.

It's funny you posted this today of all days, as I just went to the town my cousin lives in, who also has a 7D, and sold his 5D M2 while it was still worth money, in anticipation of Canons next FF. I brought MY A77 & 70-400G for him to play with (for 4 hrs.) while I looked at flooring, and when I got back he not only raved about it (which could be mistaken as courteous) but, opened up his notebook, went to his email & showed me his "A77 body/kit lens order confirmation from Amazon! Then told me he's dumping his 7D, and going to wait and see what Canon is going to offer in FF besides whatever the 7K model (he knew) they just announced. by the way -- he's more Canon loyal than Harley riders are to their bikes.

I just don't think yours is an "just trying to be informative" thread, as you were to eager to get "in the mix" when questioned. Maybe craigslist could help you out of your woes, and the 7D forum would be more than accomadating to your concerns.

Also, all of your concerns have been talked about from day 1 in countless threads, so, either you didn't do your homework, don't want it to "measure up", or simply can't handle "the buttons" I.E. focus mode dial -- that I've NEVER had to turn the Camera to change, -- but I am on my 3rd Alpha, and know how to operate it. Maybe you should give it a month of dedicated use (if you truly want it to succeed) and post again one you "know the Camera", then if you still don't like it -- sell it!
Mike V.
 
The majority of your complaints deal with the UI and I would predict that they would lessen and likely disappear as you got used to it. It is kind of like moving between a PC and a MAC - things are different but not necessarily better (OK - the MAC's UI tends to be better ;)).

I don't have an A77 but I do have an A700 which is very similar and I love the handling and controls (although I have never shot a Canon 7D so I can't compare them).
--
Rick
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fjbphotos/
 
and love what you want. If the IQ on the A77 over ISO 400 does not rock your boat then move on to something that does. I too feel that the high ISO from the A77 is questionable but I have also seen some nice pictures from the cam too.

Lastly, we all chose some camera over other and reject many in the process. I recently purchased the A33 and may add the A65 but in the process, I tried the A35, A55 and A580.

Now imagine ALL of us posting threads of cameras we rejected or passed over for myriad of reasons but the question is WHO CARES?

--
Nick P
 
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