Tthe Brick & mortar camera shop of yesteryear

it's NOT the same as online book stores. You don't want to read the book at the store before buying it online at a lower price. But you do want to "test drive" the camera at the camera store prior to ordering it from the internet. We tend to use the shop as the showroom for internet sellers, to gather advice and recommendations prior to seeking that low online price.
Sorry - I think that's reprehensible. If I go to try out a camera (or other piece of kit) I will buy it from them unless their price is ridiculously more than online. And if it is, I'll give them the chance to compete (not necessarily match) it. After all, they have the overheads of the shop, taxes, staff and of having the kit to display and it all needs to be paid for. And unless we, the purchasers, support them, they won't be there tomorrow.
 
it's NOT the same as online book stores. You don't want to read the book at the store before buying it online at a lower price. But you do want to "test drive" the camera at the camera store prior to ordering it from the internet. We tend to use the shop as the showroom for internet sellers, to gather advice and recommendations prior to seeking that low online price.
Sorry - I think that's reprehensible. If I go to try out a camera (or other piece of kit) I will buy it from them unless their price is ridiculously more than online. And if it is, I'll give them the chance to compete (not necessarily match) it. After all, they have the overheads of the shop, taxes, staff and of having the kit to display and it all needs to be paid for. And unless we, the purchasers, support them, they won't be there tomorrow.
Interesting... because it seems to me that B&H has "overhead", pays "taxes", and likely a higher payroll expenditure than the typical camera shop- yet still they offer (like Cameta Camera, and others) an option for potential customers to make purchases online; that allows them access to a global market instead of a local only market.

What I think is ridiculous is supporting a business practice that is antiquated just for the sake of supporting it even though it no longer makes sound business sense.

I can browse, order, and receive equipment from B&H without ever leaving my desk. I can also (at 2am) print out a return ticket for any defective item, have UPS pick it up, and have a replacement item placed on my doorstep, "will call" customer pickup, etc., without having to say much to anyone.

The question that has been burning in my mind for over 10 years is that.... a teenager can have a web site where people use their credit cards to purchase items, and where the customer can browse the goods being sold... why won't grown men and women running a freaking mom/pop camera store do the same thing?

... Kinda like asking me to feel sorry for a 15 year old sitting in his drive way, next to a lawn mower filled with gas, complaining that he doesn't have enough money to go see a movie. Meanwhile the neighbors up and down his street have overgrown lawns.

He knows the opportunity is there. He sees other kids mowing lawns. Yet he sits there in his driveway and does nothing but whine and b_ ch.

I'd rather spend resources in helping those who are honestly trying hard to help themselves.
--
Teila K. Day
 
it's NOT the same as online book stores. You don't want to read the book at the store before buying it online at a lower price. But you do want to "test drive" the camera at the camera store prior to ordering it from the internet. We tend to use the shop as the showroom for internet sellers, to gather advice and recommendations prior to seeking that low online price.
Sorry - I think that's reprehensible. If I go to try out a camera (or other piece of kit) I will buy it from them unless their price is ridiculously more than online. And if it is, I'll give them the chance to compete (not necessarily match) it. After all, they have the overheads of the shop, taxes, staff and of having the kit to display and it all needs to be paid for. And unless we, the purchasers, support them, they won't be there tomorrow.
Interesting... because it seems to me that B&H has "overhead", pays "taxes", and likely a higher payroll expenditure than the typical camera shop- yet still they offer (like Cameta Camera, and others) an option for potential customers to make purchases online; that allows them access to a global market instead of a local only market.
I think the point you're missing is the reprehensible act of someone going into a B&M store, using the stock avalible to "try out and examine" the cameras they are considering and then leave to order the same camera from somewhere else, leaving the store owner with nothing to show in terms of a sale.
The choice of selling online or not has nothing to do with it.
 
its not digital that brought the brick and mortar stores down but the fact that you can buy from home on the internet and wait for your item to be shipped to your house. i guess you are right in a way as thats the digital revolution. r
I still wonder about the amount of camera shops closing in the recent Digital world. An example in the long Island area, is a second generation shop that had been in the quiet but exclusive town of "Great Neck" They were a landmark, had been there from the early 60's. It was still two partners, yet younger, when they moved a few towns over about 10 years ago. One partner was like my best friend and the other one I tolerated. Eventually, a few years back, they closed down the new store, and my friend opened a somewhat different kind camera store, A new kind of camera store that's also a school and a photographic museum, as he is a "Master Photographer" I'm glad that he survived, he's a guy you can trust, full of Skill, his work is unmatched! There are no counters, just a couch and some chairs on two levels. You can buy what you need, learn how to use it and also make a friend. A friend you can trust!

Through the years, their prices were competitive, they never steered you wrong and their customers were all friends as well/ What they agreed on was that it was "Digital" that changed their business, as I have heard so many times before from many camera shop owners. Although we all complain about something, we can't deny that this is a very interesting time to be in photography. We can shoot pictures at an event, and have them in the office within a few seconds. Everyone is walking around with a camera, even if it's in their phone. There are cameras on every street, stoplight, and some that catch speeders. The technology is nothing short of amazing. So why is it that so many shops closed and blamed it on digital. In Manhattan, it's obvious, but not everyone wants to buy that way. I know I'm still doing pretty much the same, Shooting photo's, writing a story and sending it in to the office. On saturday, I find myself looking at more photographic equipment. Even though they sell cameras in the appliance store to the candy store, it's not what we use. We still need "real equipment" Is it just an excuse, that Digital put them out of business? I never processed film at the camera shop, so I don't see the difference, If anything, there's more cameras & equipment available by the day. I for one, like to go to the camera specialty store. And to be abled to take a class there, even the better. But I don't see digital bringing it down, in fact I think it's just the opposite. Pictures on my computer, my tv, rotating pictures in a frame, pictures of speeders, thieves, and the best portrait work ever. It took some time to admit it, but I think Digital saved photography! ....Joe Prete
 
I think the point you're missing is the reprehensible act of someone going into a B&M store, using the stock avalible to "try out and examine" the cameras they are considering and then leave to order the same camera from somewhere else, leaving the store owner with nothing to show in terms of a sale.
The choice of selling online or not has nothing to do with it.
Selling online has everything to do with it, because that's why this thread came about in the first place. Lastly, B&M shops are crying foul when online shops with nice return policies have the same problem (worse actually depending on how you look at it); people order two or three new lenses, shoot with them for a few weeks, then return two of them taking advantage of return policies.

B&M stores aren't the only ones dealing with the same 'ole business problems that dress shops have endured for ages. B&M stores are mostly the only stores left whining without actually doing something to arrest the problem.

Someone mentioned book stores- Yes, people do go into book stores, read a lot of the book, manual, test taking guide, etc., and then go home and look up the ISDN online and buy the book for $20 less. Ok, so what else is new? ... as if the camera store is the only one experiencing such practice.
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Teila K. Day
 
Well don't come crying to us when you can no longer stop on your way home from work to buy groceries, a box of nails, beer or whatever else you enjoy shopping for locally. I don't agree with buy, try and return mentaliity be it cameras, clothing or books.

Borders did move with the times, online sales, ebooks, ebook readers, liberal return policies, but the browse and not buy, I'll get it cheaper elsewhere folks drove them out of buisness.

Once all the B&M stores have closed and everyone is buying online..where will people work? Will we all be part of a giant online company where we become either factory workers for the suppliers, assuming there are any factories left in this country, or will everyone be delievering things to the buyers?

The points made, and argued in this thread have affected me personally.

I have patronized my local B&M photo store and saw them move with the times to the point of doing online photo processing from digital files emailed to them and offering an inhouse photo studio that could be rented by the hour. they routinely offered to try and match online prices and to order whatever you wanted, without penalty if after trying it you changed your mind. When they closed, so did a good quality local processing lab.

When Border's closed my daughter, her husband aqnd her best friend were all phased out of jobs.

This entire trend is too close to what happens to local economies when jobs go overseas, or south of the border. My home state of Rhode Island went into a deep economic decline when NAFTA happened. Suddenly the entire jewelry industry, RI's largest economic factor at the time, cllosed their factories and moved operations to Mexico.

So enjoy moving with the times and living your online world the next time you want to buy tires for your car and can't find them locally.
 
So enjoy moving with the times and living your online world the next time you want to buy tires for your car and can't find them locally.
Not to mention what do we do with those tires after UPS leaves those tires on our front porch while we are at the unemployment line (and assuming they are still there since they will leave them on our front porch even though we aren't home) . . .

Will the internet somehow mount these tires on our car rims for us?

People like Teila can't see beyond the end of their own noses . . .

--
J. D.
Colorado
  • "If your insurance company tells you that you don't need a lawyer . . . hire a lawyer!"
 
B&H can maintain ONE physical outlet in NYC, because there is a huge population base of photographers and photo hobbyists. Their B&M store is also subsidized by online sales. Smaller operations cannot compete online--the larger the business, the larger the discount, economies of scale, etc. The current situation is that only the very strongest stores can continue to exist. Others, even those who do a good job, simply do not have the customer base--ESPECIALLY if that base uses them as somewhere to do the 'touchy-feely' stuff, and then buy online.
--
http://www.artisticlens.com
http://www.artisticlens.com/blog
 
So enjoy moving with the times and living your online world the next time you want to buy tires for your car and can't find them locally.
So who will even need cars? I live at my place of employment and am within walking distance of shopping. Neeless to say, I love shopping for camera gear online.
 
Well don't come crying to us when you can no longer stop on your way home from work to buy groceries, a box of nails, beer or whatever else you enjoy shopping for locally. I don't agree with buy, try and return mentaliity be it cameras, clothing or books.
I don't agree with try-and-return mentality either. I just truthfully pointed out that online stores with great return policies experience people "trying before they buy" just like B&M stores do.
Borders did move with the times, online sales, ebooks, ebook readers, liberal return policies, but the browse and not buy, I'll get it cheaper elsewhere folks drove them out of business.
Sounds like Borders needed to get with the times long before they tried to, especially with all of their stores out there sucking them dry. You can't sit and watch progress, then decide at the last minute that you want to get with the program after years of old business practices.
I have patronized my local B&M photo store and saw them move with the times to the point of doing online photo processing from digital files emailed to them and offering an inhouse photo studio that could be rented by the hour. they routinely offered to try and match online prices and to order whatever you wanted, without penalty if after trying it you changed your mind. When they closed, so did a good quality local processing lab.
In areas that I've lived, you can't run a business doing "online photo processing from digital files" (most people couldn't care less about that offering nor studio rentals) + offering a small selection of cheap camera equipment. You have to offer what people want to buy at a competitive price and high profit stuff that people are willing to buy at your price point which must be comparable, or reasonable in the minds of the buyer.

Online photo processing from digital files isn't exactly "moving with the times", that's merely an ancillary offering that most people shooting digital will never use.

How many camera stores in your area offer 24/7 ordering and competitive prices that are w/in a few bucks of B&H or cheaper? Don't say cheaper can't be done, because I've found Cameta Camera to be cheaper than B&H on many occasions; they have a great return policy, offer a nice selection of products that the avid hobbyist or professional might be interested in buying. Non in my area.
When Border's closed my daughter, her husband aqnd her best friend were all phased out of jobs.
I'm truly sorry to hear that, along with others that are out of work.
This entire trend is too close to what happens to local economies when jobs go overseas, or south of the border. My home state of Rhode Island went into a deep economic decline when NAFTA happened. Suddenly the entire jewelry industry, RI's largest economic factor at the time, cllosed their factories and moved operations to Mexico.
Hmmm.. WHY did they go overseas specifically? That's the answer...it's not just NAFTA that's at play here. NAFTA is often a scape goat for tax-the-hell-out-of-our-local businesses right here at home for years. I firmly believe that I should be able to run my business how I want to without the U.S., State Gov., or a Union telling me that I have to pay someone $20hr to sweep the floor. There's so much business expense and strangling going on in this country between the Fed and local govts, that it's not even funny. Take that element out of the equation, and you'll see a significant number of businesses back on U.S. soil. When I lived in New Orleans you'd see the UPS truck on Canal street with a wad of parking tickets under the windshield wiper- We all know that the UPS truck isn't stopping for tea, and will be underway in a matter of minutes, but the city saw fit to fine the stew out of the truck(s) for "parking" on the side of the street as if the UPS guy was suppose to pick the truck up, fold it, and put it in his pocket for each delivery on the busy street. That's one example, but administrative costs are easily negated by moving a business away from the governments (local/fed) that financially **** them, who typically squander a large % of the taxes collected... but that's another thread right?
So enjoy moving with the times and living your online world the next time you want to buy tires for your car and can't find them locally
Where have you been for the last 25 years? I started buying Z-rated tires over the telephone back in the 80's (back when I drove faster than I should), because there wasn't a market "locally" worth keeping them in stock. What you're whining about is the same thing people were whining about during the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's... when cars were being painted with machines. Machines started sorting mail, tomatoes, freight; replacing farm hands and other manual labor. You're singing the same song that's been sung for decades.

Guess we should tell our Fed Gov., to move backwards and hire thousands of people to manually print, sort, stock, and distribute publications as opposed to saving paper and resources and having people pull PDFs from a single web site right?

Offer me something in your store that I find "special"... something that moves me and entices me to buy. A lot of stores do that! ... but a book store offering the same edu. book that I can get on my iPad for far less from a dedicated site with little overhead doesn't cut it.

--
Teila K. Day
 
B&H can maintain ONE physical outlet in NYC, because there is a huge population base of photographers and photo hobbyists. Their B&M store is also subsidized by online sales. Smaller operations cannot compete online--the larger the business, the larger the discount, economies of scale, etc. The current situation is that only the very strongest stores can continue to exist. Others, even those who do a good job, simply do not have the customer base--ESPECIALLY if that base uses them as somewhere to do the 'touchy-feely' stuff, and then buy online.
Just curious... does Cameta Camera in NY turn a profit?

Lastly, a significant number of orders to B&H don't even come from the state of NY, let alone NYC.
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Teila K. Day
 
The largest photographic market in the world can support a number of stores. No second B&H or Adorama in the 'burbs, though. Certainly nothing even close in most of the world.
You just touched on something that a lot of stores just don't get. You can't stick a MF ("medium format") ;) store in Zanesville, OH and expect to survive on sales, rentals, and studio space. By the same token, you can't operate a camera store that offers only L'cheapo stuff and expect to be able to pay $6,500 monthly rent on a building, taxes, payroll, insurance, etc... it just doesn't make sense unless you have a constant flow of casual shooters buying from your store.

I think stores like PPR in Atlanta have the right idea. Kinda specialize in what you do. When you walk into PPR it doesn't feel like you walked into Ritz Camera or a store filled with stuff that a serious hobbyist or commercial shooter would never bother with.

At least PPR has regular sales online where those inclined can make their purchase without making the trip to ATL.

On the flip side, basic camera stores that operate in high traffic tourist areas make sense.
--
Teila K. Day
 
Eventually humans will no longer be born with legs; we can just sit at home to order everything off of the "all mighty" internet and have it delivered. That is the next step in "evolution" haha

--
http://www.ernestmatteo.com
 
Well don't come crying to us when you can no longer stop on your way home from work to buy groceries, a box of nails, beer or whatever else you enjoy shopping for locally. I don't agree with buy, try and return mentaliity be it cameras, clothing or books.

Borders did move with the times, online sales, ebooks, ebook readers, liberal return policies, but the browse and not buy, I'll get it cheaper elsewhere folks drove them out of buisness.
Borders bit it because they refused to compete where they had to. Every time I went there to buy a book it was list price. Whatever the publisher stamped on the inner jacket was what Borders charged. A book that I can get from Amazon for $17 costs me $29 at borders.

I have a similar issue with Best Buy: Why is everything Mfg. List price? Can't these people make a little effort at a discount? The B&M stores are going belly up (if that is indeed true) because they don't even make an effort to be competitive on price (or service for that matter). And… Why is it that every time I go into that place it seems that I know ten times as much about the thing I am trying to buy than the floor guy does? I end up educating them.

There is an old saying that goes something like this: “If you don’t take care of the customer, somebody else will” Borders didn’t and Amazon did.
Once all the B&M stores have closed and everyone is buying online..where will people work? Will we all be part of a giant online company where we become either factory workers for the suppliers, assuming there are any factories left in this country, or will everyone be delievering things to the buyers?

The points made, and argued in this thread have affected me personally.

I have patronized my local B&M photo store and saw them move with the times to the point of doing online photo processing from digital files emailed to them and offering an inhouse photo studio that could be rented by the hour. they routinely offered to try and match online prices and to order whatever you wanted, without penalty if after trying it you changed your mind. When they closed, so did a good quality local processing lab.

When Border's closed my daughter, her husband aqnd her best friend were all phased out of jobs.

This entire trend is too close to what happens to local economies when jobs go overseas, or south of the border. My home state of Rhode Island went into a deep economic decline when NAFTA happened. Suddenly the entire jewelry industry, RI's largest economic factor at the time, cllosed their factories and moved operations to Mexico.

So enjoy moving with the times and living your online world the next time you want to buy tires for your car and can't find them locally.
--
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/26158506@N07/
 
I'm thinking that if you find Costco and Walgreens colors better than most other experienced photo labs . . .

Then you must be colorblind!

Or you photoshopped your images on an unbalanced computer monitor at home that somehow matches Costco's and Walgreens well known off-color printing!

I just don't buy your story . . . sorry!

--
J. D.
You have posted that you sell cameras in a camera store. Does it offer photofinishing? Do you blame your customers as well?

It seems you can't admit there are some bad chain camera stores who are screw-ups. If you always blame customers and never entertain there may be a problem, you won't have customers for long, as was pointed out. The fact that the store went out of business indicates that maybe they, not the customer had the problem.
 
Doug the stalker is back!

Sorry . . . I'm not biting.

--
J. D.
Colorado


  • "If your insurance company tells you that you don't need a lawyer . . . hire a lawyer!"
 
Jessops have removed the counters so that the staff can mingle sociably with prospective customers. And they have new shirts that make the staff look like members of a motorsports team.
So all's well again.
Roy
 

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