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The problem with the X10: daylight sensor resolution the weakest link

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I disagree. I think it was an acceptable compromise, just like it was when the manufacturers finally backtracked on resolution to get faster sensors in P&S...going from 16Mp back to 12Mp. I used to be quite impressed with the pics out of my 3.1Mp Canon D30...even have a 12x9 print on the wall (printed on an Epson) from it and everyone comments on how sharp it is.
 
LOL! Of all you can blame on the camera, the sensor is what you think the weakest?

You are expecting to much my friend. You should have bought the X100 if you are looking for more than this.

Try to test your best premium P&S camera side by side with the X10 and see which one is weaker.

-=[ Joms ]=-
 
I too would disagree. Theres a lot you could have done with these images had you shot them with the correct settings on the camera. You should have mentioned what mode you were using, what metering and other important items. At least then people would know where to start.

You appear to be a good distance from your area of interest. As the x10 doesnt have a larege telephoto function I would say thats pretty good.
Did you use spot metering , which would be best for telephoto.

All the images look underexposed as well, so I think its most likely that you need to practice using different settings.
--
Love dat Fuji :P
http://akiwiretrospective.blogspot.com/
Fuji HS20EXR
Fuji HS10,
Pentax K1000, Pentax sf7, Pentax zx-50
 
I would argue that 12MP is too much for such a small sensor. The low light performance I've seen so far is IMO quite good for such a small pitch.
--
Ken in Illinois
http://www.pbase.com/kjford
 
jcmarfilph said:
Try to test your best premium P&S camera side by side with the X10 and see which one is weaker.

-=[ Joms ]=-
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I'm actually going to do just this when I get my X10, against my S90. Won't be soon, though, I'm not planning on getting the camera until Christmas-ish.
 
HeavyDuty said:
I would argue that 12MP is too much for such a small sensor. The low light performance I've seen so far is IMO quite good for such a small pitch.
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Hmmm... 10MP is fine on the XZ-1, so I think 12 MP should be OK on the X-10.

Problem IMO is the sensor technology itself - CCD/EXR array instead of CMOS/Bayer array. EXR is a solution looking for a problem. The EXR benefits are in any case only available if you shoot JPEG, Raw will get the worst of all worlds including inferior resolution compared an equivalent MP Bayer array.

The sensor is what is stopping me from getting too excited about this camera, otherwise it looks like the perfect compact.

--
Mike
http://flickr.com/rc-soar
 
Whats the problem with the images ?? Its a point and shoot camera with a cool looking body, great ergonomics and cost $600

What are people expecting ? A leica M9 or something for that money ??

This camera is nothing more than a fancy point and shoot, and its images are just like one would expect from a point and shoot camera.

If you've never been a fan of P&S image quality before, then the X10 isn't going to change that and isn't for you

Plenty of other higher resolution cameras if thats what important to you.

If however you want a cool looking and great handling point and shoot, and can again, accept its a point and shoot, its a great camera
MBell said:
The lack of resolution in daylight shots over and above point and shoots lets the camera down: fuji ought to have cracked making it 16mp or put in a bigger sensor. At these prices (£530) the sensor is the weakest link....



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--
http://www.millsartphotography.com
 
I suspect there will eventually be RAW processing that will take advantage of this sensor. It might not be worth it, or necessary if Fuji does a really good job with the jpeg processing.
Model Mike said:
HeavyDuty said:
I would argue that 12MP is too much for such a small sensor. The low light performance I've seen so far is IMO quite good for such a small pitch.
Click to expand...
10MP is fine on the XZ-1, so I think 12 MP should be OK on the X-10. Problem though is the sensor technology itself - CCD/EXR array instead of CMOS/Bayer. Presumably the XR benefits are only available if you shoot JPEG. If that's the case, it seems to me if you shoot raw you get the worst of all worlds including less resolution compared with a Bayer array. It's sensor may be what stops me getting what looks otherwise like a perfect compact.

--
Mike
http://flickr.com/rc-soar
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I agree. It's mystifying to me that people are continuing to expect professional quality from this camera. For what it is, the X10 is amazing. I wish people would stop looking for something that was never intended to be there in the first place.
 
I'm totally confused on whether or not raw is available when shooting with the EXR modes. I've seen people respond with both yes and no to this question. Someone posted a manual showing that raw is available with the EXR modes.

I see so many different responses that I'm not sure though.

Can anyone verify any of this with fact and not just hearsay?
 
Daniel Lauring said:
Model Mike said:
Daniel Lauring said:
I suspect there will eventually be RAW processing that will take advantage of this sensor.
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As I understand it, a Raw converter can't restrospectively alter the EXR shooting mode (SN or DR mode), that's something which has to be decided before the shot is taken.
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RAW is just supposed to be the values at the sensor location. How that is interpolated comes later.
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To a point. I suppose that both EXR SN mode and EXR HR mode photos could be produced from the same RAW files, but not EXR DR mode photos. That's because during DR mode operation, the two sets of photosites use different shutter speeds, half of them collecting fewer than the usual number of photons as protection against blown highlights. There's no way to collect (approximately) 2x or 4x the number of photons retroactively, after the fact, in order to create what an SN or HR mode setting would have produced.
 
millsart said:
Whats the problem with the images ?? Its a point and shoot camera with a cool looking body, great ergonomics and cost $600
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You got many useful (and some useless) posts on these issues here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1012&thread=39731297

You've answered the "too soft" "smeary," "horrible colour," "no bokeh," "no DOF," "useless OVF," "unreliable," "unpocketable," and "wouldn't buy one even if" whiners admirably. Thanks. ;)
--
X100, X10 soon, E-PL2, 35mm gear etc.
 
I see nothing wrong with these shots you trying to have a super-zoom camera by cropping the hell out of it. The news paper shot is sharp in the centre and loses a bit on the outer circle which may can be resolved in macro mode. This camera after all has a lot DOF and may have some different characteristic in certain situation to its brother premium P/S
 
Billx08 said:
[...] I suppose that both EXR SN mode and EXR HR mode photos could be produced from the same RAW files [...]
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I suspect that SN mode is achieved during the demosaicing process, using knowledge of EXR's unique RGB array. In which case, Raw + SN mode would only be possible using Fuji's bundled raw processor, so for example Lightroom users would be left in the cold as regards both SN and DR modes.

Hopefully the CMOS sensor (not CCD as I thought) will be good enough even in DR mode! (If it's as good as the XZ-1 I'd be persuaded to switch, simply for the handling benefits.)
--
Mike
http://flickr.com/rc-soar
 
Hello,

It says in the manual that you should be able to shoot in RAW in all the EXR modes but I just can't enable it :(

That's a shame.

Cheers,
 
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