Sony Memory Stick - RIP

why would they want to introduce CF?

they are more profitable with MS and they do the job for the large majority of consumers. they do stand to maintain just as much loyalty to MS users as CF users do...however, I don't think a simple inexpensive memory card would keep someone from owning the camera. just like MPG's....3MPG isn't going to win me over from buying an SUV of one brand to another.

in the end...why would sony intro CF? I'm sure they did their homework on sales reports and reviews in deciding what to do.

Jason Busch said:

Rodger,

If Sony is not trying to monopolize the memory market and keep
their customers so that they only buy SONY ONLY, then why haven't
they implemented CF in their cameras?

Especially with the 717.

Any free-market digital camera manufacturer puts CF in their
cameras, because it's more versatile and flexabile this way.
Olympus lied to everyone that SmartMedia was the end-all in
technology, and so has Sony. These two manufacturers make me sick.
Sony just makes me puke when it comes to memory-required devices.
Olympus at least allowed CF & SM in their prosumer cameras.

Sony Fans will fight to the death even in the midst of obvious
defeat. It's just one of those things. Kind of like a woman who has
nothing else going for her other than looks and popularity. She
could be the dumbest woman on the planet and the most inconvenient
and inconsiderate woman ever, but some guys will just love the gal
and defend her to the death.

Well, go for it Sony Fans. You have the most inconsiderate and dumb
woman in town.

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Click to expand...

Tim Lauro said:

why would they want to introduce CF?

they are more profitable with MS and they do the job for the large
majority of consumers. they do stand to maintain just as much
loyalty to MS users as CF users do...however, I don't think a
simple inexpensive memory card would keep someone from owning the
camera. just like MPG's....3MPG isn't going to win me over from
buying an SUV of one brand to another.

in the end...why would sony intro CF? I'm sure they did their
homework on sales reports and reviews in deciding what to do.

Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, I actually like Sony, as long as I don't have a product that has their memory sticks.

Well, I suppose that the MS situation is an example of consumers who don't know much about digital photography. The 717 puts out large MP images, and they expect everyone to get by with a 256MB or less memory stick? CF is selling cheap, and has a much higher capacity. I guess I'm missing the point that Sony consumers are content with what they have and are at the bottom of the digital photograph totem poll. If it was me, I would be demanding larger size memory sticks at the least, and demanding a CF slot on my sony equipment.

In your SUV example. You mean to tell me that if an SUV had a rating of 3MPG and another had a rating of 10MPG, you would still buy the 3MPG, all other features being equal?

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Tim Lauro said:

why would they want to introduce CF?

they are more profitable with MS and they do the job for the large
majority of consumers. they do stand to maintain just as much
loyalty to MS users as CF users do...

Click to expand...

"maintain just as much loyalty", what does that really mean ? As
near as I can see, it means they are Sony, and they make lots
of different consumer electronic products, so they can try to
lock consumers into their own proprietary memory storage format,
rather than using the common shared format, Compact Flash, that
other companies have worked together to create.

pdqgp said:

however, I don't think a
simple inexpensive memory card would keep someone from owning the
camera. just like MPG's....3MPG isn't going to win me over from
buying an SUV of one brand to another.

Click to expand...

I don't like the idea of a big company trying to gain marketshare
by exploiting their size in the marketplace, rather than using a
common shared format, and that would keep me from owning
the camera.

pdqgp said:

in the end...why would sony intro CF? I'm sure they did their
homework on sales reports and reviews in deciding what to do.

Click to expand...

With all respect, Tim, I think that you are suggesting that large
companies never make marketing mistakes.

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9910/04/mem.stick.idg/
256 MB Memory Stick by 2001

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-268460.html?legacy=cnet&tag=mn_hd
Still announcing bigger sizes!

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0%2Caid%2C51245%2C00.asp
256 MB in 2002/1GB 2003

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-931071.html
New Memory Stick Duo announced!

And now presenting "MEMORY STICK PRO".

Okay, so now we've seen that none of Sony's different versions of memory sticks can be used in different devices...People seem to be forgetting the MP3 players, Handheld PDA's and everything else under the sun that Sony marketed based on the fact that "larger memory coming to a theater near you soon!"

This is a big oops. Everybody has been saying for years to stay away from devices that use a proprietary memory system. Sony's marketing has been saying for almost three years that larger memory sticks are coming. I wonder who will be the first with a lawsuit...lol. And the same thing is going on with the new XD disk.

Very good cameras and devices, even better marketing to get you to buy their stuff on a wish and a prayer with the "hope" of expandability in the future. My hat's off to the Sony marketing and sales department. Now how much money do you think they made on this???

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I also have a problem with the other formats but Sony is the only one that makes a camera that uses MS. Sony has a past history of trying to control a market place and I don't fault Sony for trying, but sometimes they don't have their customer's best interests in mind. Just think if ever manufacture had their own format for DVD and CD's, what a mess the the movie and music industry would be in. There are a lot of companies that make CF cards and bar none CF far surpasses any other card on the market today for speed and capacity. If Sony was not bent on trying to control the market on storage cards and had the consumer in mind then they would market their own brand of CF and try to improve on that, make the Sony CF card the best. There should be one standard format and CF has proven at this point to be the best of the lot. When Sony used the Floppy disk it was a good idea because everyone had floppies. The CD concept is good but tends to make the camera a little larger then need be. Sony makes some excellent cameras and I would look at them for a second point and shoot camera if it where not for the MS. I will be getting the Canon G3, it's an excellent camera, takes CF and the same battery as my Canon D60. People are not buying Sony cameras because of the MS, they are buying because of the quality of camera they build, but people are not buying Sony because of the proprietary MS, I think they would sell more if they went CF.

Tom

Rodger Carter said:

Nothing wrong with that, and I don't know what Sony's technical
problems are with their memory card that prevents them from keeping
up with the capacity of other types, but there are now numerous
media storage formats on the market and Sony seems to be the only
manufacturer who is criticized for having the audacity to bring a
competing product to the marketplace. I thought we operated under
the free enterprise system, but according to certain mental
midgets, this applies to everyone except Sony. By reading the
posts they’ve been putting out every since Sony introduced
the MS, you’d think Sony had accused their mothers of being
ladies of the evening and themselves of being persons of uncertain
parentage (more blame due to me for that than to Sony). They all
seem to be personally insulted that Sony would dare to market a
memory card that competes with whatever memory card their niche
player camera uses. The fact that Sony is behind many (possibly
the majority) of electronic innovations at work in the marketplace
today doesn’t seem to enter their thought processes (such as
they are), but no, Sony is a criminal organization, along with Al
Qaeda, out to destroy civilization as we know it today as proven by
the fact that they marketed the MemoryStick, and worse yet,
haven’t produced one that costs more than the cameras they
are used in so that their owners can brag “mine is bigger
than yours.” I get the distinct impression that this
obsessive need to brag abut size has a lot to do with a certain
part of their anatomy that is not apparent without close
inspection, if you catch my drift.

Rodger

Click to expand...

--
Tom

But Sony keeps selling em regardless. 3rd best selling memory card this year. That has to be simply phenominal for a proprietary system. Obviously there are a lot of people prefer Sony . Sony is raking up sales and it is likely to continue. They are the leader of innovation and know what sells.

The pundits on this forum ought to take their heads out of their a$$ and think about how the forums don't amount to a drop on the bucket with regards to camera or any electronic devices sales. They are so wrapped up in Dpreview they have lost touch with reality and the world off line. hahahahah
John

WP said:

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9910/04/mem.stick.idg/
256 MB Memory Stick by 2001

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-268460.html?legacy=cnet&tag=mn_hd
Still announcing bigger sizes!

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0%2Caid%2C51245%2C00.asp
256 MB in 2002/1GB 2003

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-931071.html
New Memory Stick Duo announced!

And now presenting "MEMORY STICK PRO".

Okay, so now we've seen that none of Sony's different versions of
memory sticks can be used in different devices...People seem to be
forgetting the MP3 players, Handheld PDA's and everything else
under the sun that Sony marketed based on the fact that "larger
memory coming to a theater near you soon!"

This is a big oops. Everybody has been saying for years to stay
away from devices that use a proprietary memory system. Sony's
marketing has been saying for almost three years that larger memory
sticks are coming. I wonder who will be the first with a
lawsuit...lol. And the same thing is going on with the new XD
disk.

Very good cameras and devices, even better marketing to get you to
buy their stuff on a wish and a prayer with the "hope" of
expandability in the future. My hat's off to the Sony marketing
and sales department. Now how much money do you think they made on
this???

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Click to expand...

johnd1 said:

The pundits on this forum ought to take their heads out of their
a$$ and think about how the forums don't amount to a drop on the
bucket with regards to camera or any electronic devices sales.
They are so wrapped up in Dpreview they have lost touch with
reality and the world off line. hahahahah

Click to expand...

One could equally argue that MacDonald's is a very popular restaurant,
so we should all eat there at least once a week.

WP said:

... I wonder who will be the first with a
lawsuit...lol.

Click to expand...

This concept of a "lawsuit" seems to come up in the Sony bashing threads once in a while. Im curious, can someone who is of legal expertise explain to me just how a lawsuit of such would come about? Last time I checked there is no law against not bringing a product to market no matter how much you promise it. I seriously doubt in any of Sony's advertising you will find the words, "If you will just buy our MS products, we will introduce larger capacity memory sticks." Press releases are simply that, press releases. They do not constitute a contractual agreement.

It appears some aren't familiar with the term "vaporware". Products that are promised yet never delivered. This has been going on forever. If every company that promised a product and didn't deliver were to end up in court over it, half the top companies in business today would be out of business.

I really do find all this bashing amusing as I have seen it go on in the computer industry for years. Brand loyalist slamming other brands. What I have never exactly understood is what makes loyalist hate other brands so much they have to go to great lengths of bashing. Do these loyalist not have what they want? Why worry about what some other group is doing? And for the Sony loyalist who seem to feel betrayed, either live withing the parameters Sony is providing or move on to brandwise to something you think fits your digital paradigm.

What is really going to be humorous is "if and when" these new MS come out, they actually work fine in the newer Sony stuff; i.e. products to have came out in the last year or so. In another post I mention there is no set word they won't. If that happens what will all the noise have been for then?

Happy holidays and good cheer,
Maurice

Maurice Smith said:

WP said:

... I wonder who will be the first with a
lawsuit...lol.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Maurice Smith said:

This concept of a "lawsuit" seems to come up in the Sony bashing threads once in a while. Im curious, can someone who is of legal expertise explain to me just how a lawsuit of such would come about?

Click to expand...

You actually want to ask how a lawsuit can develop? In the US, lawsuits are brought and won not entirely based on logic or common sense. And lawsuits are brought about in other countries based on the same premise and even more. So, in other words, a lawsuit could easily be brought against Sony. It's just a matter if the Jury would be smart enough to understand what Memory Sticks are. That's the problem. Brains. Many consumers lack it, and Sony knows it.

Sony runs to the bank laughing, because they are well aware of stupid consumers and how many will by Sony anything. I worked in retail and this phenomenon still occurs today. Sony has exceptional mass-marketing capabilities which flood the consumer's mind with what to buy, but not why they should buy it or if it is a wise choice.

Sony makes some great equipment, but most of it is cr@p. I know from experience. You have to buy their top of the line equipment to get great quality. The other 95% of their product line is just made with a gratuitous amount of buttons that few consumers will ever use but feel the more buttons the better it must be.

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Jason Busch said:

Jason Busch said:

Maurice Smith wrote:

... Im curious, can someone who is of legal expertise explain to me just > > how a lawsuit of such would come about?

Click to expand...

You actually want to ask how a lawsuit can develop? In the US,
lawsuits are brought and won not entirely based on logic or common
sense. And lawsuits are brought about in other countries based on
the same premise and even more. So, in other words, a lawsuit could
easily be brought against Sony. It's just a matter if the Jury
would be smart enough to understand what Memory Sticks are.

Click to expand...

Jason, I am assuming (which is a dangerous thing to do) that you have the "legal expertise" I mentioned in my original questioning concerning lawsuits. Otherwise I will have to dimiss your response as an opinion.

My point is, no class action lawsuit has any merit where the only damages are "hurt feelings" because a multi-national corporation did not follow through on speculative product releases.

Anyway, enjoy which ever camera you have and which ever media it uses. Do so remembering that next year there is going to be something better, no matter the brand. We don't want to get left behind now, do we?

Happy Holidays and Cheers,
Maurice

Jason Busch said:

Sony makes some great equipment, but most of it is cr@p. I know
from experience. You have to buy their top of the line equipment to
get great quality. The other 95% of their product line is just made
with a gratuitous amount of buttons that few consumers will ever
use but feel the more buttons the better it must be.

Click to expand...

Actually, your comments just made me realize something. What
does a Sony F717 owner do if he or she ever decides they are
really "hooked" on digital photography, and they want something
better ?

The answer, as far as I can see, is they leave the Sony product line
and move over to one of the true and genuine camera companies,
like Canon or Nikon.

I understand and also would like the Sony's to use CF's as I have plenty, but it's no big deal to me. Although everyone is different.

The 128mb stick can hold 51 full size hi-res images. Plenty for most everyone IMO.

Again, I would like to see larger capacities and even CF usage, but I would not buy a camera because of it. I didn't not buy the Compaq iPaq I have even through I can't use the CF cards I did in my Casio. Compaq forces you to buy an adapter. It was a factor for me to consider, but it didn't keep me from owning it. I just bit the bullet and spent $60 on a 128mb card that it would use.

Regarding the SUV thing...I wouldn't say the 3 vs 10mpg would be realistic...but in my case I average 14mpg vs some that can get close to 20mpg averages....and IMO, I don't care about the difference. It's just gas and I wieght the costs. Memory is even cheaper for me.

I paid $200 for a 512mb CF on e-bay brand new. I can pick up 4 128mb MS for about $40 ea. thus it's a wash considering a 512mb CF has prolly come down a bit since when I bought it.

tim

Jason Busch said:

Don't get me wrong, I actually like Sony, as long as I don't have a
product that has their memory sticks.

Well, I suppose that the MS situation is an example of consumers
who don't know much about digital photography. The 717 puts out
large MP images, and they expect everyone to get by with a 256MB or
less memory stick? CF is selling cheap, and has a much higher
capacity. I guess I'm missing the point that Sony consumers are
content with what they have and are at the bottom of the digital
photograph totem poll. If it was me, I would be demanding larger
size memory sticks at the least, and demanding a CF slot on my sony
equipment.

In your SUV example. You mean to tell me that if an SUV had a
rating of 3MPG and another had a rating of 10MPG, you would still
buy the 3MPG, all other features being equal?

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Click to expand...

what I meant by "maintain just as much loyalty", is just the same effect as CF users...some CF users won't buy anything but CF compatible cams as they don't wish to switch....there are the same stubborn MS users who feel that way too and are more loyal to Sony because of the same philosophy. Not me in either case, but some for each.

locking customers in isn't anything new. it's like that in a lot of industries and products. that's a smart business move and again, considering the costs involved for the consumer to switch...it's evidently hurting any bottom lines as the trend is continuing.

tim martin said:

"maintain just as much loyalty", what does that really mean ? As
near as I can see, it means they are Sony, and they make lots
of different consumer electronic products, so they can try to
lock consumers into their own proprietary memory storage format,
rather than using the common shared format, Compact Flash, that
other companies have worked together to create.

Click to expand...

I agree...but it's a common practice and not everything is going to be one size fits all. For me it was close...I reviewed a CF based Nikon 5700 and the Sony 717....all other things aside..the memory format wasn't a factor that would keep me from a great camera. Both are great too.Again, we're all different though.

tim martin said:

I don't like the idea of a big company trying to gain marketshare
by exploiting their size in the marketplace, rather than using a
common shared format, and that would keep me from owning
the camera.

Click to expand...

No ill feelings at all. I understand your points. I also agree that there are marketing mistakes, but in the world of Sony and MS's....I don't think it was a mistake for them. They are doing quite well, selling plenty of cameras and overcoming an objection to the proprietary formats as well.

I recently looked at HD Widescreen's and one little funny fact was sony builds in MS readers. It wasn't a factor at all for me but I give them credit for doing it. It's not like they would lower the price of the unit if they removed it anywya. Perhaps that one little difference shows a commitment to their technology and will be a factor in the decision for others. Even if it's not, those that have a TV with it will appreciate that feature if ever they should use it.

I bought a car that had built in Garage door openers. Didn't even have a garage then...but now that I do, that feature is great. Don't have any cassettes either, but have both CD/Cassette. Now work provided me some books on tape and I'm glad I have it. My house came with speakers on the deck...didn't need them at first, but am glad they are there now that I added something.

My point is while they may be pushing a technology that is theirs, it's a common practice and with such little differences in actual costs involved, I find it odd that such a little memory chip can cause so many waves. Just me I guess, but I don't care what memory my next camera uses....if I want the camera...I'll buy whatever is needed to make it work. Unless the cost delta is just stupid.

tim

tim martin said:

With all respect, Tim, I think that you are suggesting that large
companies never make marketing mistakes.

Click to expand...

Yup! They got to go to a DSLR.

The Sony 717 may well be the best of the 5 MP consumer cameras but thats where it ends for Sony. They are content to gain market share in the lower end where profits are the highest.

The 717 was the main reason I lost interest in any DSLR. I think it best defines a camera that bridges the gap. The second was Canon's stinkin overpriced proprietary lens system. Thankfully there are other choices if/when I ever decide to go with a DSLR.

Nikon and Canon have been making cameras for 50 years + and along comes an electronics firm and in 5 short years overtakes their market share.
Who knows ? give Sigma another year and Nikon and Canon may really be hurting.

tim martin said:

Jason Busch said:

Sony makes some great equipment, but most of it is cr@p. I know
from experience. You have to buy their top of the line equipment to
get great quality. The other 95% of their product line is just made
with a gratuitous amount of buttons that few consumers will ever
use but feel the more buttons the better it must be.

Click to expand...

Actually, your comments just made me realize something. What
does a Sony F717 owner do if he or she ever decides they are
really "hooked" on digital photography, and they want something
better ?

The answer, as far as I can see, is they leave the Sony product line
and move over to one of the true and genuine camera companies,
like Canon or Nikon.

Click to expand...

Tim Lauro said:

No ill feelings at all. I understand your points. I also agree
that there are marketing mistakes, but in the world of Sony and
MS's....I don't think it was a mistake for them. They are doing
quite well, selling plenty of cameras and overcoming an objection
to the proprietary formats as well.

Click to expand...

Yes, of course. They certainly aren't doing anything that harms
the environment, et cetera. Whatever strategy they think is
best to make the most money is fine with me. Even if it causes
me to avoid their products, et cetera. Some other consumers clearly
feel differently.

pdqgp said:

I recently looked at HD Widescreen's and one little funny fact was
sony builds in MS readers. It wasn't a factor at all for me but I
give them credit for doing it.

Click to expand...

That does seem like a pretty neat idea to me as well. In the long,
long run, I really believe big screens are the future. That's why
I always shoot in the highest resolution my camera can offer.

Maurice,

Well, I'm no lawyer. And many don't like my legal expertise. Read my previous posts about the US Constitution.

It would be difficult to bring a lawsuit for sure. What I meant to say is that anyone can bring a suit against a company for almost anything, and the case will have to be heard. Whether or not it's thrown out of Civil court, is another issue, but let's think about it for a minute.

The time factor. Sony Memory Sticks have been around for a while. It's not like they were introduced one month and then discontinued the next month. Here is where a case could be made, especially if anyone had evidence of Sony's advertising that said their memory stick technology would last for a long time. As far as I know, Sony has not advertised this. They advertise how convenient and small and portable the memory is.

I've done a little research on Memory Sticks, and they have been around since at least September 1998. The very reason for MS, was to integrate Audio and Video, and digital camera devices so that data storage could be easily transferred without several and incompatible different memory media. That fact right there would be a great defense for Sony, and their marketing said just this. And, it's been 4 years that MS has been around. This is a considerable amount of time for a dedicated Sony consumer to get out of the market if they wanted to. Yes, there will be those who just bought a Sony cam and will face a problem very soon if they want to upgrade--but that's part of living in a free-market society. You have a right to make a bad choice.

So, yes, I agree it would be a task win a lawsuit from Sony, but it wouldn't be hard to actually file a lawsuit.

However, just filing a lawsuit can mean some damage to a company (i.e., publicity implications). Sometimes winning a case can be done without even stepping in a court of law.

Hope this made a little sense.

Cheers And Happy Holidays To Your Family Too,

JB

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Jack.

This is uninformed. Who said that Sony had abandoned the fastest growing memory format available at this time? The "supposedly named Memory Stick Pro" is meant to augment the line, not replace the line of original Memory Sticks.

Let's just wait for the news instead of reacting on rumor.

Jack. said:

Finally Sony gives up their first model of proprietary memory
cards! They never got to sufficient capacities with it. One has to
invest completely again, when upgrading to a beter camera (Sony or
not).
Wonder how long their new "Pro" models will last.

It is just my personal feeling that I would feel sad if I had
bought a Sony camera, but...

Now I'm very happy that I've never invested in Sony equipment, only
because they use their proprietary Memory Sticks. Obviously they
could become obsolete when I would switch to a better camera.

My huge amount of CF storage can still be used, in near future
cameras!

Many camera users told me so!
I couldn't agree more!
No Sony in the future too!

Jack.

Click to expand...

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I don't know--an orangutan has pretty big fingers, he (or she) might have an easier time with the larger, bulkier compact flash. Now if you said spider monkey, then I'd probably agree, although a spider monkey would no doubt try to eat the memory stick...

johnd1 said:

Sandy said:

I've been enjoying a Sony f505 for 3 years and my wife has a Sony
P1, and I have a Digital Wallet. Thus we have sufficient memory
stick capacity . I have just ordered my a Dimage 7i and it was a
close run thing with the f717. I had assumed there would be bigger
memory sticks than 128Mb since that is too small and and it is a
nuisance having to change sticks every 50 or so pictures, more
sticks means more silly errors in formatting one you haven't saved.
I've done it and cursed. It's not a killer, but it makes me just a
bit more convinced that Minolta and CF was the right decision.
--
Sandy

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

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If I were a company as powerful and rich as Sony and I wanted to monopolize the Memory market why wouldn't I just buy out Lexar or SanDisk and then I would own a CF card maker? Eventually, I could muscle out all the small fry and have the market to myself.

If Sony is trying to monopolize the market I would suggest that it isn't doing a very good job at it. Announcement about Memorysticks only effect those people who own Sony cameras and nobody else but, it appears, it is those non-Sony owners who are the most upset. Why? It shouldn't effect them at all! If they never buy a Sony camera, then they need never touch a Memorystick in thier lives!

However, if they want a Sony camera because of the features and image quality that they produce then they are going to use a Memorystick. The Contax TVS Digital uses the MMC card and, if I wanted to buy that camera, I would also buy those memory cards. I have never used an MMC in my life but, I would if I wanted to use that Contax Digital. If I bought a Nikon, I would have to buy CF cards even though I have nothing else in the world that a CF Card would work in. Sure, I have my choice of Lexar, San Disk or any of the other smaller makers but, in the end, I'm simply going to buy what fits in my camera no matter what the format.

The other companies didn't go with CF Cards out of a sense of duty to the public but because they really didn't have much choice. They didn't have the facilities to produce thier own memorycards and had to use CF.

Jason Busch said:

Rodger,

If Sony is not trying to monopolize the memory market and keep
their customers so that they only buy SONY ONLY, then why haven't
they implemented CF in their cameras?

Especially with the 717.

Any free-market digital camera manufacturer puts CF in their
cameras, because it's more versatile and flexabile this way.
Olympus lied to everyone that SmartMedia was the end-all in
technology, and so has Sony. These two manufacturers make me sick.
Sony just makes me puke when it comes to memory-required devices.
Olympus at least allowed CF & SM in their prosumer cameras.

Sony Fans will fight to the death even in the midst of obvious
defeat. It's just one of those things. Kind of like a woman who has
nothing else going for her other than looks and popularity. She
could be the dumbest woman on the planet and the most inconvenient
and inconsiderate woman ever, but some guys will just love the gal
and defend her to the death.

Well, go for it Sony Fans. You have the most inconsiderate and dumb
woman in town.

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Please see my Profile for equipment I use

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You filthy remark is completely inappropriate and inmmature. He's entitled to post an opinion.

Phil?

Rich

johnd1 said:

Hey Jack Off,

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