Getting good skintones and the D7k, once more (1 image)

The compression is to adjust exposure at mid range correctly. Sometimes, with a wide DR image you cannot use exposure for that as ends may be lost.
In general, this is what brightness/gamma adjustment is for. It's been a while since I used NX, but ACR has both an exposure slider and a brightness slider. My typical workflow is to set highlights with exposure and set overall density with brightness. Because brightness is not a linear adjustment, it essentially protects the highlights.
 
That really is a good photo. Are you finding the D7k tends to punch out a little more red than other colors? I have noticed this as well, but as you say, it is easily manageable if it even is a problem in the first place. I'd rather have people looking slightly more magenta than green or blue. I've been a long time Pentax dSLR user, which to me I think meant dealing more with greenish hues. But regardless, red has always been the easiest color to blow out of the histogram. I'm not exactly sure why.
It depends on subject, but it's seems the case that it tends to blow first if all colors are present.
Do digital sensors have more red sensors than Green and Blue? I think I remember reading somewhere that imaging sensors have about twice as many red sensors as Green and Blue. Are our computer monitors limited in some ways that film wasn't? They must be.
No, Green is present twice as much in the CFA Bayer system. Because sensels are less sensitive to that hue.
Thanks for that info. and maybe that also explains why reds tend to blow first.
The exposure system in the D7k seems to be extremely sophisticated, behind what we see as photographers. Ken Rockwell suggests using Auto WB with +2 Amber.
I use RAW so never care what in-camera settings are, just leave everything in default mode (Standard). For portraits I always change profile to Portrait when converting. WB is tricky. I leave it alone at Auto and only change if I really see some problem. D7k is much better than D80 was with Auto WB in my experience.
I also like the D7k Auto WB very much, but I don't have knowledge of other Nikons aside from my little P300 point and shoot.
But I use manual everything related to exposure, never leave it to camera to decide about that.
I use P mode often, but also S, A, M and U1 and U2 modes, all in relation to exposure but also other settings as well as I mainly shoot JPG. It is a very nice touch that the U1 and U2 can remember almost every camera setting you want. PSAM modes are in their own "goup" as far as retaining settings, which is also fine. Maybe I mess around with the camera too much, but I find that it helps me keep inspired as well as to make the camera feel more "at home" in my hands.
Obviously this will be different for everybody, but I'm wondering if forcing the camera to balance over toward red more, will tell it's exposure processing to be more careful not to over expose reds. I have noticed the camera tends to over expose overall scenes when it's trying to "process" more accurately for portraits, or in low light situations to prevent too much sensor noise in shadows, but in landscape shooting this can be an issue to simply resolve by dialing in approximately -0.7 EC on average depending on the scene.
As I said above, I use manual exposure all the time, and check histograms. Since I came from film and a camera w/o metering, usually I have a pretty good idea of settings when I get to a situation, then I just use spotmetering or even matrix to check if it's corret, but final test is histogram, expecially Red for protraits.
I'm also checking the histogram almost always, probably now more out of habit than anything. I used an old Pentax MX for a while, but didn't have the patience for film, and I did everything manually as well without the ability to review or see histograms. I have a pretty good idea of what settings any given scene will require. I don't review every picture I take, so I leave "instant review" turned off, but I do press "Play" often and find the histogram most handy.
Overall, I'm totally happy with what the D7k does in relation to my style of photography, and it all works so quickly, but as with all cameras it requires a bit of direction from the photographer at times. And as with all digital photography, you still need to delve a bit into post processing sometimes.
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No PPing, no optimal results, that's my motto.
That's a fine motto, but I think one can also step back from that idea momentarily and try to defining what "optimal results" signifies to them personally.

Art is about limitation, and defining of lots of things, as well as doing the best we can with what we've got. In essence it is simplification. This is part of the reason why I don't shoot RAW so much anymore. It gives me more to work with than I would like.
Anyway here's a sharer. Best regards,




--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
--
Lipo
 
My best lens re color is the 105 f/2.8 Micro, but it weighs a ton and is not very well-balanced on the D7k. Next is the 35mm f/2 Nikkor, but that's not so good as a walking around lens. The Sigma is good IMO, similar to the 18-70mm Nikkor kit, likely the best kit lens Nikon ever made for APS-C.

But I'nm not so picky about lenses. I think good exposure, good shooting technique, good framing, good understand of how light works and good PPing are much more relevant than camera or lens.
I agree. Thanks,
Sigma lenses seemed to render a little more green, which I didn't care much for when I used Pentax dSLR's. But maybe you have a winning combination with that lens on the D7k?
Thansk for visit.
Excellent. Great color. Super sharp. What lens?
--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
--
Lipo
--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
--
Lipo
 
No PPing, no optimal results, that's my motto.
That's a fine motto, but I think one can also step back from that idea momentarily and try to defining what "optimal results" signifies to them personally.
The point is that optimal is not given as an a priori concept. Only when I open an image I really decide where to go with it, if color, b&w, softer in contrast etc. Photography is not about copying nature/reality, it's about interpreting it.
Art is about limitation, and defining of lots of things, as well as doing the best we can with what we've got. In essence it is simplification.
Or not. Creating different things from same raw material (raw here is in common use sense) is a big part and has no limitations ecept your imagination and skills. The D7k is not a limiting factor in that regard, we are.
This is part of the reason why I don't shoot RAW so much anymore. It gives me more to work with than I would like.
Raw is not the issue, you can PP from jpeg is exposure is good, except for WB.
Anyway here's a sharer. Best regards,
Regarding the settings for this image, ISO500 is not necessary and if you were to print it large with best IQ possible the loss of detail in the foliage would show. Other than that, very nice.
--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
 
The point is that optimal is not given as an a priori concept. Only when I open an image I really decide where to go with it, if color, b&w, softer in contrast etc. Photography is not about copying nature/reality, it's about interpreting it.
I agree, and also we interpret everything we see anyway. What we see is our interpretation. Photography teaches us to see. I don't think everybody sees things the same way. Or at the very least we make very subtle adjustments in shooting of our own, and we can also do so in processing. And it doesn't have to be such a radical interpretation for it to be our own, even if the camera imposes some of it's own "picture style" or "exposure bias". Also different cameras produce different results, so the decision we make whether to buy one camera or another is also a part of our interpretation.
Or not. Creating different things from same raw material (raw here is in common use sense) is a big part and has no limitations ecept your imagination and skills. The D7k is not a limiting factor in that regard, we are.
Yes, it's a constant search. Of course the D7k offers a wide range of possibilities.
This is part of the reason why I don't shoot RAW so much anymore. It gives me more to work with than I would like.
Raw is not the issue, you can PP from jpeg is exposure is good, except for WB.
True, and I usually do post process my JPG's. I just find that using RAW is overkill for me, most of the time. They each have their place in photography, this is why cameras now give us the option to shoot both or to switch between the two with the press of a button. There are benefits to learning both, and then making "you own" choice.
Anyway here's a sharer. Best regards,
Regarding the settings for this image, ISO500 is not necessary and if you were to print it large with best IQ possible the loss of detail in the foliage would show. Other than that, very nice.
Thank you very much. I will have to look at this picture again at 100%. My processing steps included resizing, hue/saturation, levels, gaussian blur, unsharp mask, denoise the red channel... all in moderation. I'm not sure that ISO 500 is the culprit of any loss of detail, though I'm sure it must have been to some extent as you've pointed out. I also feel that the 18-105 vr lens just isn't capable of such high resolution when zoomed so far in, to photograph something so far away. A lens with bigger glass would have let the D7k capture more detail. At close focus distances the 18-105 does better, but so do my eyes. I shoot JPG, Large, Fine, with the "quality compression" setting for pictures like this one on my U2 mode. If I wanted to make a 20x30" print of this, I think I could produce a pretty detailed version with what I got. I've done so with my old 6 megapixel Pentax dSLR, although admittedly it has a somewhat "digital" look to it if you get close enough. Most people see pictures on the walls from a bit further away.

If I get a chance, I will try posting a 100% crop of the original.

Have a good day,
--
Lipo
 
I agree, and also we interpret everything we see anyway. What we see is our interpretation. Photography teaches us to see. I don't think everybody sees things the same way. Or at the very least we make very subtle adjustments in shooting of our own, and we can also do so in processing. And it doesn't have to be such a radical interpretation for it to be our own, even if the camera imposes some of it's own "picture style" or "exposure bias". Also different cameras produce different results, so the decision we make whether to buy one camera or another is also a part of our interpretation.
But that's what RAW allows you to do in a very versatile way, you can adjust routine to produce any type of photography you like, w/o having to find a camera for each purpose, or being tied to what the camera maker thought was a "good" jpeg output. For example, some softwares have as options each type of film ever produced. Or you can develop your own style. I have about done that using CNX2 for b&w, I have a routine that produces something very much like what I used to get from b&w film (actually, better IMO). Here are a couple of examples:





--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
 
The compression is to adjust exposure at mid range correctly. Sometimes, with a wide DR image you cannot use exposure for that as ends may be lost.
In general, this is what brightness/gamma adjustment is for. It's been a while since I used NX, but ACR has both an exposure slider and a brightness slider. My typical workflow is to set highlights with exposure and set overall density with brightness. Because brightness is not a linear adjustment, it essentially protects the highlights.
I have to check that, I very rarely use brightness sliders, except at b&w conversions. I use CNX2 for PPing (ACR for conversions).
--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
 
Thanks for sharing your excellent pictures. Here is my attempt at a b&w conversion from an out of camera JPG.

One thing I can say in favor of shooting film is that it would yield something really good by just developing it even at the local drug store. I would have liked to shoot more film, since having started with digital it's hard for me to imagine what good film looked like and I'm pretty much left to my own devices even if converting from RAW. I "trust" RAW profiles just as much as the camera's own variants. Over the years the companies which improved the "look" of film really made it beautiful... optimal or not. Regards,





--
Lipo
 
Gorgeous exposures, Renato. Very nice to see.
 
I've been meaning to borrow a D80 to try it out myself, since folks claim its SOOC files have better skin tones. Note also your "sample" subject may not be the most troublesome: alegedly it is lighter skin folks who the D7000 can't handle as well.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seeking the heart and spirit in each image



Gallery and blog: http://imagesbyeduardo.com
Flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22061657@N03
 
When skintone matching is that critical, why not bring along the Xrite ColorChecker Passport for profiling instead of going through all the guessing?
 
It's not so much colour as the processing. People look plastic with the D7000.

But as I don't shoot many people, I might still buy one.
 
The point here was that people has posted that they can't get good skintones right out of camera, w/o further color/WB adjustments. The example shows you can.

I'm not into that much "realism".
When skintone matching is that critical, why not bring along the Xrite ColorChecker Passport for profiling instead of going through all the guessing?
--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
 
The point here was that people has posted that they can't get good skintones right out of camera, w/o further color/WB adjustments. The example shows you can.
By the way, I read an earlier discussion up in this thread, and I find I do almost the same with regards to Levels/Curves adjustments: First bring detail out of shadows and highlights to find a "middle" ground for the image, and finally increase contrast. Of course it depends on the picture, and my mood...

Well, for those shooting JPG the in-camera "hue" adjustment for the picture control seems to help, and there are a lot of white balance options as well. With hue, just one click to the right for more yellow/green seems to help.

Overall, I think we just need to accept the fact that taking pictures of people is hard. People move. Light changes. Also it was never "all magic and wonder" with film. It still came down to the photographer's skill.

For the Gimp there are few "film like" scripts for download. Here's one that does "Velvia", but for portraits I like the "Portra". Also there are some pretty good black and white ones.

Original





with "Velvia" script





with "Ilford Delta 400" script and curves adjustment





Cheers,
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Lipo
 
Here is a portrait shot from the camera JPG default PT picture control with a bit of Levels adjustment.





This one had the "Portra" script added.





The point is, we can keep producing version after version, and RAW shooting lets you do that more and more, but IMO no version is "better" than any other. Photography is not a competition. Each version is different, and a result of perspective, mood, time and place. To say one picture is "better" because it looked more like Fujichrome, is in fact getting further from "anybody's personal vision". The ultimate creation from personal vision would be to paint on a canvas purely from a dream or a memory. Of course this would not be photography anymore.
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Lipo
 
So far I am finding D7k really tricky to use, skin tones, saturated colours (impossible to get the detail saturated subject like flowers) and focus off issues. I don't know it's already crossing my mind to sell it and too get D300s. UNtill new FF out. I mean I understand that you might need to adjust this and that, but I think photos should be usable out of camera and if you like you may improve them a little, but not that you must fix everything to be able to use them.

Could you please show the original shot, before the processing? I would like to the see difference processing made.

I will do a portrait next week indoors in artificial light and outdoors, I will set as recommended, AF-S, Single point, f/4-5. exposure -0.3-1. White balance Auto, Standart or Neutral, will try Portrait too. I hope this will help not to get this orangey skin.

Still believe such new camera should make photos good enough to use as they are, even if you shot in P.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/lienete/
 
The point here was that people has posted that they can't get good skintones right out of camera, w/o further color/WB adjustments. The example shows you can.
Well, not quite right out of camera. Being a D90 owner, I have enjoyed reading the many D7000 threads from a safe distance. Yours here, as I noted on your flickr site, is particularly educational as you describe your shooting and pp process. But, your method seems like a way to outsmart the D7000. For one thing, you are shooting RAW. Your approach cannot solve the portrait problems for people who shoot jpegs and want to use in camera settings. You are underexposing to avoid clipping the red channel and fixing in pp (not out of camera). Those who shoot jpegs cannot fix the exposure so readily. Second, will this approach work for more fully lit portraits (i.e. outdoors) or those who use flash? I think it is a great technique that I and others can apply. But, I'm not sure it fully answers those who think the D7000 lacks in out of camera skin tones. You are so good at pp, you shoot knowing what you are going to do to an image later making the exact equipment you are using less important. Does the camera more readily clip the red channel than other cameras? Can adjusting the hue setting in camera balance that as another member proposed? I don't know. It is interesting even for someone who is not even a potential buyer at this time. Thanks again for this practical and informative thread.

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/brev00
 

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