Overexposed or smoke?

http://www.flyingcold.com/snowmachines/

I posted a thread earlier asking for help on getting the settings for a D100 to shoot indoors under arena type florescent lights. The event is a "extreme" snowmachine jumping, and the machines generate two stroke engine smoke. I'm not sure if the smoke is making the photos look overexposed or not?

I was using the SB-80DX flash and the 24-85mm f2.8 in shutter priority. the link above has some photos from earlier, if you have a clue where I went wrong I'd appreciate it.

All the photos have the same settings (photoshop web gallery removes the EXIF) Also, the photos are jpeg "out of the camera" only saved for the web via the web gallery.

1/180s
f4
shutter priority
matrix metering

Also see the eailer post for my original ideas of settings:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=3959671

Headed back over in about 3 hours, your quick responce would be fantastic!

Thanks -

--
D100
SB -80DX
50mm f1.8D
24-85mm f2.8-4.5D
70-300mm f4-5.6G

B. Jones said:

http://www.flyingcold.com/snowmachines/

I posted a thread earlier asking for help on getting the settings
for a D100 to shoot indoors under arena type florescent lights.
The event is a "extreme" snowmachine jumping, and the machines
generate two stroke engine smoke. I'm not sure if the smoke is
making the photos look overexposed or not?

I was using the SB-80DX flash and the 24-85mm f2.8 in shutter
priority. the link above has some photos from earlier, if you have
a clue where I went wrong I'd appreciate it.

All the photos have the same settings (photoshop web gallery
removes the EXIF) Also, the photos are jpeg "out of the camera"
only saved for the web via the web gallery.

1/180s
f4
shutter priority
matrix metering

Also see the eailer post for my original ideas of settings:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=3959671

Headed back over in about 3 hours, your quick responce would be
fantastic!

Click to expand...

I don't know that looks like glare or something. Do you have a filter of some kind on your lens ? If you do (and it's a cheap one) try taking it off.

DS

Yeah, I had a Quantaray UV filter for protection on the 24-85. Nevre had a problem with it but I'll take it off and see what happens. Not much of a chance of UV damage this time of year in Alaska!

Thanks Dom

Any other suggestions?

Dom_S said:

I don't know that looks like glare or something. Do you have a
filter of some kind on your lens ? If you do (and it's a cheap one)
try taking it off.

DS

Click to expand...

...Auto Contrast. The 'misty' shots look like the camera 'decided' to go 'Low Contrast'. It was one of the first things I turned off on my D1X when I got it! I noticed a few shots in there were not cloudy. Check your EXIFs and see if there is a difference...

BTW - Looks like a cool event. We get nothing like that here in Florida.

B. Jones said:

http://www.flyingcold.com/snowmachines/

I posted a thread earlier asking for help on getting the settings
for a D100 to shoot indoors under arena type florescent lights.
The event is a "extreme" snowmachine jumping, and the machines
generate two stroke engine smoke. I'm not sure if the smoke is
making the photos look overexposed or not?

I was using the SB-80DX flash and the 24-85mm f2.8 in shutter
priority. the link above has some photos from earlier, if you have
a clue where I went wrong I'd appreciate it.

All the photos have the same settings (photoshop web gallery
removes the EXIF) Also, the photos are jpeg "out of the camera"
only saved for the web via the web gallery.

1/180s
f4
shutter priority
matrix metering

Also see the eailer post for my original ideas of settings:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=3959671

Headed back over in about 3 hours, your quick responce would be
fantastic!

Thanks -

--
D100
SB -80DX
50mm f1.8D
24-85mm f2.8-4.5D
70-300mm f4-5.6G

Click to expand...

Hard to say just what caused it but you can correct them now that they have already been shot try the Correcting Underexposed Shot tip here and see how they look. http://www.jtgraphics.net/all_digital.htm
--
JTGraphics
http://www.jtgraphics.net/all_digital.htm
Nikon D100
MB100 w/4 EL-N3 Batteries
Sigma AF 17-35mm EX f2.8D
Nikkor AF 28-105 3.5-4.5D
Nikkor AF 80-400mm F4.5-5.6D ED VR
Nikon SB-80DX Speedlight TTL

Nikon990, TC-E2, EagleEye 5x, Oly B-300 & Kenko 8x32, Metz40 & Sunpak 522, Home Made Battery Packs etc..

I have a custom tone curve in use, so I hope it's not bouncing around from low to high contrast. I can't understand why some photos look OK and others are cloudy though?

I took the filter off and am headed back over to the arena. I'll post the results tomorrow.

Thanks for your reply............Cheers

Moon said:

...Auto Contrast. The 'misty' shots look like the camera 'decided'
to go 'Low Contrast'. It was one of the first things I turned off
on my D1X when I got it! I noticed a few shots in there were not
cloudy. Check your EXIFs and see if there is a difference...

BTW - Looks like a cool event. We get nothing like that here in
Florida.

Click to expand...

reflecting off the smoke particles (as far as I can tell from the pictures and your description). you're gonna have to turn ithe SB80dx off when the smoke is involving the whole scene and use vailable light and high ISO.

B. Jones said:

http://www.flyingcold.com/snowmachines/

I posted a thread earlier asking for help on getting the settings
for a D100 to shoot indoors under arena type florescent lights.
The event is a "extreme" snowmachine jumping, and the machines
generate two stroke engine smoke. I'm not sure if the smoke is
making the photos look overexposed or not?

I was using the SB-80DX flash and the 24-85mm f2.8 in shutter
priority. the link above has some photos from earlier, if you have
a clue where I went wrong I'd appreciate it.

All the photos have the same settings (photoshop web gallery
removes the EXIF) Also, the photos are jpeg "out of the camera"
only saved for the web via the web gallery.

1/180s
f4
shutter priority
matrix metering

Also see the eailer post for my original ideas of settings:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=3959671

Headed back over in about 3 hours, your quick responce would be
fantastic!

Thanks -

--
D100
SB -80DX
50mm f1.8D
24-85mm f2.8-4.5D
70-300mm f4-5.6G

Click to expand...

B. Jones said:

I took the filter off and am headed back over to the arena. I'll
post the results tomorrow.

Thanks for your reply............Cheers

Moon said:

...Auto Contrast. The 'misty' shots look like the camera 'decided'
to go 'Low Contrast'. It was one of the first things I turned off
on my D1X when I got it! I noticed a few shots in there were not
cloudy. Check your EXIFs and see if there is a difference...

BTW - Looks like a cool event. We get nothing like that here in
Florida.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Hi,

I would not recommend to use filters as long as you want to get the best out of your lenses.

There is still a chance to repair your images. Try to move the right slider in the tonal correction menu in PS to the left. Should cut some of the fog out.

Joachim
http://www.joachimgerstl.com

it is the smoke which causes this problem the suspended particles reflect the light of the flash, and as you can see it on the histogram there is no contrast (total lack of dark zones). Numerically this poses less problems, it is easy to correct to correct with levels

before



after

B. Jones said:

http://www.flyingcold.com/snowmachines/

I posted a thread earlier asking for help on getting the settings
for a D100 to shoot indoors under arena type florescent lights.
The event is a "extreme" snowmachine jumping, and the machines
generate two stroke engine smoke. I'm not sure if the smoke is
making the photos look overexposed or not?

I was using the SB-80DX flash and the 24-85mm f2.8 in shutter
priority. the link above has some photos from earlier, if you have
a clue where I went wrong I'd appreciate it.

All the photos have the same settings (photoshop web gallery
removes the EXIF) Also, the photos are jpeg "out of the camera"
only saved for the web via the web gallery.

1/180s
f4
shutter priority
matrix metering

Also see the eailer post for my original ideas of settings:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=3959671

Headed back over in about 3 hours, your quick responce would be
fantastic!

Thanks -

--
D100
SB -80DX
50mm f1.8D
24-85mm f2.8-4.5D
70-300mm f4-5.6G

Click to expand...

You know Rome,

That was the first thing I thought too: smoke.

But I never realized that you can remove it so easily. Always stayed away from flash and smoke combinations. This opens new potential!
Thanks, Bart
And B.Jones, thanks for bringing this up.

rome said:

before



after

B. Jones said:

http://www.flyingcold.com/snowmachines/

I posted a thread earlier asking for help on getting the settings
for a D100 to shoot indoors under arena type florescent lights.
The event is a "extreme" snowmachine jumping, and the machines
generate two stroke engine smoke. I'm not sure if the smoke is
making the photos look overexposed or not?

I was using the SB-80DX flash and the 24-85mm f2.8 in shutter
priority. the link above has some photos from earlier, if you have
a clue where I went wrong I'd appreciate it.

All the photos have the same settings (photoshop web gallery
removes the EXIF) Also, the photos are jpeg "out of the camera"
only saved for the web via the web gallery.

1/180s
f4
shutter priority
matrix metering

Also see the eailer post for my original ideas of settings:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=3959671

Headed back over in about 3 hours, your quick responce would be
fantastic!

Thanks -

--
D100
SB -80DX
50mm f1.8D
24-85mm f2.8-4.5D
70-300mm f4-5.6G

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

B. Jones said:

http://www.flyingcold.com/snowmachines/

I posted a thread earlier asking for help on getting the settings
for a D100 to shoot indoors under arena type florescent lights.
The event is a "extreme" snowmachine jumping, and the machines
generate two stroke engine smoke. I'm not sure if the smoke is
making the photos look overexposed or not?

Click to expand...

Pictures are not overexposed at all (just check the histogram within a image-editor). Just a very soft contrast. I guess by the smoke and distance.

B. Jones said:

I was using the SB-80DX flash and the 24-85mm f2.8 in shutter
priority. the link above has some photos from earlier, if you have
a clue where I went wrong I'd appreciate it.

Click to expand...

You didn't. Exposures are good, just a low contrast. I corrected one image just by using "Auto level" within Photoshop + changing gamma (shifting mid slider of levels).



--
Leon Obers

Thanks to all who took their time to respond to my questions!

I agree that the contrast was soft on most of the images, and I'm still at a loss to find out how to correct that in camera. I do have a custom tone curve loaded from NC3, so the camera shouldn't be searching in "auto" mode.

It was a challenge for me (as an amatuer) to try and get the settings right the first time! I think I just got lucky and ended up with a few frames that I would consider keepers. I updated the page since yesterday, and you can see the results of the trip through photoshop here:

http://www.flyingcold.com/snowmachines

Also, regarding the levels adjustments, here is my technique:

I first apply a "threshold" adjustment layer to the image to find the max white & max black points. Adjust the slider to the right and everything should turn black, back it off to the left and stop at the first sign of white. Use the shift key to set a marker at white. Do the same for black (but the slider goes left, then right). DO NOT CLICK OK! Just click CANCEL, and the threshold layer goes away BUT the markers stay!

Now apply a Level adjustment layer, and use the white and black eyedroppers (in the lower right of the levels menu) on the white and black markers you created with the (now discarded) threshold layer.

This will provide a more accurate tonal range instead of just dragging the sliders to the edge of the histogram. For the mid point (gamma), I usually drag to about 1.15-1.25 depending on the image.

Thanks again everyone!

Leon Obers said:

B. Jones said:

http://www.flyingcold.com/snowmachines/

I posted a thread earlier asking for help on getting the settings
for a D100 to shoot indoors under arena type florescent lights.
The event is a "extreme" snowmachine jumping, and the machines
generate two stroke engine smoke. I'm not sure if the smoke is
making the photos look overexposed or not?

Click to expand...

Pictures are not overexposed at all (just check the histogram
within a image-editor). Just a very soft contrast. I guess by the
smoke and distance.

Member said:

I was using the SB-80DX flash and the 24-85mm f2.8 in shutter
priority. the link above has some photos from earlier, if you have
a clue where I went wrong I'd appreciate it.

Click to expand...

You didn't. Exposures are good, just a low contrast. I corrected
one image just by using "Auto level" within Photoshop + changing
gamma (shifting mid slider of levels).



--
Leon Obers

Click to expand...

--
D100
SB -80DX
50mm f1.8D
24-85mm f2.8-4.5D
70-300mm f4-5.6G

B. Jones said:

It was a challenge for me (as an amatuer) to try and get the
settings right the first time! I think I just got lucky and ended
up with a few frames that I would consider keepers. I updated the
page since yesterday, and you can see the results of the trip
through photoshop here:

http://www.flyingcold.com/snowmachines

Click to expand...

WOW! What a difference a day makes. You captured some great action. Did you try any pan shots without flash? I have never tried shots in an arena with the SB80 because I was afraid of lighting up smoke and dirt and I really didn't think it would give me enough light. I can't wait to try some night dirt track racing next summer.

--
John Cote
http://www.centralprepress.com

John,

I did try a few bursts without the flash using available (horrible!) florecent lighting. I think they would have been OK but the camera for some reason opened the shutter for 1/180s instead of what I dialed in, which was 1/640s (at ISO 1000). In fact even with the flash, the shutter was slow on all shots. I need to determine if it's a problem with the camera or operator error (I have this feeling that it's the later).

I can't seem to find anything in the manual that deals with it, but I'll keep looking. What happened was; I selected shutter priority and dialed in 1/640s - 1/1000s with the SB-80 on in DTTL (non-matrix). The shutter speed in the LCD window flashed, but would still focus and allow the shutter to open. The EXIF data shows 1/180s, and I think that's right based on how many of the images are blurred.

On a separate note, I think the following image show just how strong the SB-80 can be. Check out the shadow on the far wall created the sleds right skid. That wall was over 200' away!

Cheers -

John Cote said:

B. Jones said:

It was a challenge for me (as an amatuer) to try and get the
settings right the first time! I think I just got lucky and ended
up with a few frames that I would consider keepers. I updated the
page since yesterday, and you can see the results of the trip
through photoshop here:

http://www.flyingcold.com/snowmachines

Click to expand...

WOW! What a difference a day makes. You captured some great action.
Did you try any pan shots without flash? I have never tried shots
in an arena with the SB80 because I was afraid of lighting up smoke
and dirt and I really didn't think it would give me enough light. I
can't wait to try some night dirt track racing next summer.

--
John Cote
http://www.centralprepress.com

Click to expand...

--
D100
SB -80DX
50mm f1.8D
24-85mm f2.8-4.5D
70-300mm f4-5.6G

forgot the link:

http://www.flyingcold.com/snowmachines/pages/DSC_1718-copy.html

Looks like they're much better than the first batch...

What was it after all ?

DS

B. Jones said:

John,

I can't seem to find anything in the manual that deals with it, but
I'll keep looking. What happened was; I selected shutter priority
and dialed in 1/640s - 1/1000s with the SB-80 on in DTTL
(non-matrix). The shutter speed in the LCD window flashed, but
would still focus and allow the shutter to open. The EXIF data
shows 1/180s, and I think that's right based on how many of the
images are blurred.

Click to expand...

The problem may be that the highest flash sync speed you can use on the D100 is 180th. I have never tried to manually go over this with the SB80 attached, but it is possible that the camera just goes automatically to the highes sync speed no matter how high you set it.

--
John Cote
http://www.centralprepress.com

Photoshop!

Dom_S said:

Looks like they're much better than the first batch...

What was it after all ?

DS

Click to expand...