DSLR of the Decade

A77 is not a DSLR, it's a DSLT. And the decade ended few months ago.

Not to mention that the EVF is a no-go for me. Too slow. But a real SLR with same image sensor could be interesting.
Give me a break . . .

You are joking . . . right???
No I'm serious. EVF has quite a long lag that I find really disturbing. It may be fine for some shooting situations, but for event shooting that is a serious issue. And I hate how it cannot cope with high contrast situations.
Yet you say this and still keep thinking about old EVF's.

You haven't seen the new ones on the Sony A65 and A77 yet.

I have!

There is no lag.

The new Sony OLED EVF's are simply amazing, no matter how much spin you put on it!

OVF's are now obsolete, despite the fact that they will still be in some DSLR's for a little while longer.

But they will be gone before you know it!

It is inevitable . . . especially now!

--
J. D.
Colorado
 
OVF's are now obsolete , despite the fact that they will still be in some DSLR's for a little while longer.
I've thoroughly tested every camera with the new EVF from Sony- it is without a doubt, hands down, the best EVF ever made as of today's date. It isn't perfect either, still a few things to iron out but yes, a very good EVF no doubt about it.

But in no way, are OVF's obsolete. I happen to be a fan of both types of viewfinders and find, quite frankly, your statement borderline propaganda.

Balance is key.

Carl

--

http://photographic-central.blogspot.com/

"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude; nothing can help the man with wrong one."
-Thomas Jefferson
 
OVF's are now obsolete, despite the fact that they will still be in some DSLR's for a little while longer.

But they will be gone before you know it!
OVF: You see 100% (K5) of the actual scene you are about to capture the instant you press the shutter release (the whole point of SLR).

EVF: You see a digitised approximation of the scene at some point before you press the shutter release.

Hmmm...

I think optical viewfinders may be around for a while. Not that I care much.

--
Shooting since '59 and still waiting for a keeper
 
MusicDoctorDJ wrote:

OVF's are now obsolete, despite the fact that they will still be in some DSLR's for a little while longer.

But they will be gone before you know it!
OVF: You see 100% (K5) of the actual scene you are about to capture the instant you press the shutter release (the whole point of SLR).

EVF: You see a digitised approximation of the scene at some point before you press the shutter release.

Hmmm...

I think optical viewfinders may be around for a while. Not that I care much.
You are still living in the past . . .

Perhaps you should heed your own words below:
Shooting since '59 and still waiting for a keeper
Interestingly enough, I'm not a spring chicken, either, but I am one of those older guys who is not stuck on old things from the past!

Like film . . . or even OVF's!

By the way, with an EVF, not only do you see 100% of the image, but you are also seeing a live feed from the imaging sensor!

IN THE VIEWFINDER, NO LESS!

I don't know about you, but I'd really do like to see my shot exposed BEFORE I take it.

Not to mention lots more information in the viewfinder, like histogram as one example, before (not after) I take a shot!

Not to mention that with an OVF one has to lower the camera away from a shooting stance to check the image or exposure information on the back LCD.

You are so closed-minded that you are refusing to even see any value in what the future technology can bring to the table of photography!

Not to mention the inevitable.

Of course . . . as they say . . . some old dogs are incapable of learning new tricks.

--
J. D.
Colorado
 
MusicDoctorDJ wrote:

OVF's are now obsolete, despite the fact that they will still be in some DSLR's for a little while longer.

But they will be gone before you know it!
OVF: You see 100% (K5) of the actual scene you are about to capture the instant you press the shutter release (the whole point of SLR).

EVF: You see a digitised approximation of the scene at some point before you press the shutter release.

Hmmm...

I think optical viewfinders may be around for a while. Not that I care much.
You are still living in the past . . .
Actually, I though optical viewfinders were the present ... ? EVFs may be the future, but they have a ways to go (and I will be dead before an lcd is "better" than reality).
Perhaps you should heed your own words below:
Shooting since '59 and still waiting for a keeper
I may have set a high standard for keepers, but their number will not increase with an electronic viewfinder. I do not believe the equipment makes the photographer. There are other forces at work.
Interestingly enough, I'm not a spring chicken, either, but I am one of those older guys who is not stuck on old things from the past!
You don't know any good photographers from the past? Are all the good photographers yet to come as technology evolves?
By the way, with an EVF, not only do you see 100% of the image, but you are also seeing a live feed from the imaging sensor!

IN THE VIEWFINDER, NO LESS!
And this is better than seeing the actual scene you are about to capture?
I don't know about you, but I'd really do like to see my shot exposed BEFORE I take it.
Why? I usually know pretty much how it will turn out before I take it. I can't see how an EVF would help in this regard.
Not to mention lots more information in the viewfinder, like histogram as one example, before (not after) I take a shot!

Not to mention that with an OVF one has to lower the camera away from a shooting stance to check the image or exposure information on the back LCD.
Why do you need to do that?
You are so closed-minded that you are refusing to even see any value in what the future technology can bring to the table of photography!
What makes you say that? I am shooting digital after 40 years of film. That's pretty open-minded, I'd say.
Not to mention the inevitable.

Of course . . . as they say . . . some old dogs are incapable of learning new tricks.
What is the point of new tricks if they aren't any better than the old tricks?

--
Shooting since '59 and still waiting for a keeper
 
Yes, it's funny if you didn't mean it to be propaganda. Is that all you can take from my reply to you and have anything to say about? Find something you can almost take out of context and rip on?

Anytime you continually repeat the same thing over and over and over in a forum- yes it sounds like propaganda- (the true meaning of the word, however)- not sure how you take that.

There's no doubt EVFs are improving but OVF's will only be removed if the technology can surpass the capabilities that OVF's have an advantage over EVF's in- they aren't quite there yet. Sony is getting them closer and for EVF fans (like you) you must be in hog heaven. It's one great EVF.

Again, I like both. Balance is key.
--

http://photographic-central.blogspot.com/

"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude; nothing can help the man with wrong one."
-Thomas Jefferson
 
Wow . . .

You really are closeminded (as your lame attempt at response clearly shows)!

But that is OK.

I'm not going to spend more time in a pi$$ing contest with you.

But the EVF is here now, and it is at the point of surpassing the OVF in quality, despite whether you believe it or not!

Better plan on getting another DSLR with an OVF in the next year or two as after that they will probably be a thing of the past!

I have three DSLR's right now . . .

But I will probably never buy another one and will replace them with SLT's as they die.

Matter of fact, my K10D is on it's way back from repair right now (fourth time in three years with the same problem - lemon from the Pentax factory), and when it returns I will probably sell it, which will mark the beginning of the end as all of the rest of my Pentax gear will soon follow.

By the way . . . this is the third time they've had to fix the optical viewfinder!

--
J. D.
Colorado
 
"But the EVF is here now, and it is at the point of surpassing the OVF in quality, despite whether you believe it or not! "

This is what I mean. I've used the EVF, as have many reviewers and the consensus is just about the same amongst the field. Its the best EVF but it's not quite perfected yet and certainly not better than the high end OVF's out there (think $1,500.00 DSLRs and above- like the Canon 7D, Nikon D7000, Pentax K5 and above).

So I think he's quite open minded about the subject, perhaps you aren't ? You give no cause to think otherwise at this point.

Carl
 
quite a bit so far. Overall it is an excellent effort and in some ways it surpasses the older high end enthusiast DSLRs, and in some ways it's behind them.

It's definitely "the" unique offering in the category, but each camera has it's strengths here, even though the few you are comparing too are older than the A77.

C
--

http://photographic-central.blogspot.com/

"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude; nothing can help the man with wrong one."
-Thomas Jefferson
 
A77--Great Video, convenient onboard GPS, nice 24MP Resolotion, Performance with High ISO?, "Oh ya we forgot about that one."
 
I agreed with everything, but the one part of his review about the K-20D having better handling than the K-5. I shot he nearly identical K-10D for 3 years. The camera controls are lousy; no direct button for ISO, a crontrol dial as opposed to independant up, down, Left & Right buttons, I could go on, but I'm not. The old Body style is a Joke(.) I was more fluid with the K-7 in 3 Days than I was with the K-10D in 3 Years. I would love clarification of why he chose the K-20D over the newer body style of the K-7 & K-5 in terms of Handling.
 
Wow . . .

You really are closeminded (as your lame attempt at response clearly shows)!

But that is OK.

I'm not going to spend more time in a pi$$ing contest with you.
I suggest people read my post and then yours and they can make up their own minds who initiated your "pi$$ing contest" as you call it. I think my initial comment was quite innocent, although you seem to have taken it rather badly.

--
Shooting since '59 and still waiting for a keeper
 
Wow . . .

You really are closeminded (as your lame attempt at response clearly shows)!
No, he is not - I am not closeminded. How about you? Calling people names because they disagree with you? Deciding that everyone should love those EVFs now ?
But that is OK.
No, it's not. You are rude.
I'm not going to spend more time in a pi$$ing contest with you.
Stop trying to pi$$ people off, then.
But the EVF is here now, and it is at the point of surpassing the OVF in quality, despite whether you believe it or not!
Compared to some OVFs, in some regards. Yes, it can do neat tricks but how can it be better than the real thing?
Better plan on getting another DSLR with an OVF in the next year or two as after that they will probably be a thing of the past!
Wishful thinking.

I don't understand, though - it's OK to wish for better mirrorless/EVFs, but why do you hate OVFs, and why do you hate people who still like them?
I have three DSLR's right now . . .

But I will probably never buy another one and will replace them with SLT's as they die.
Your choice, not mine.
And I don't want to hear pro EVF/SLT (Sony?) propaganda on a Pentax forum.
Matter of fact, my K10D is on it's way back from repair right now (fourth time in three years with the same problem - lemon from the Pentax factory), and when it returns I will probably sell it, which will mark the beginning of the end as all of the rest of my Pentax gear will soon follow.

By the way . . . this is the third time they've had to fix the optical viewfinder!
And an EVF will never break? Yes, it would require less calibration - but still.

Alex S
 
Alex . . . you are pretty funny.

Nice rant as well!

--
J. D.
Colorado


  • "If your insurance company tells you that you don't need a lawyer . . . hire a lawyer!"
 
K-5 is a great camera but let's not get ahead of ourselves. I mean, if you want to, go ahead. It's a free world. But really, K-5 is a great camera, but that's not to say that it's better than all of it's competitors. It isn't.

For instance, Canon 60D is a fantastic camera. Is K-5 better? No. Is it worse? No. Is it the same? No. It's just a great camera. That's it.

A lot of us Pentax guys are so high on our own equipment that we think everything else and every other brand has inferior equipment. That isn't the case at all. To each his own, but in reality, K-5 isn't as superior as some think. It's a great camera though. That's all it needs to be. :)
 
I don't lump myself into a group "let's" etc. And I'm certainly not speaking on behalf of anyone else. I have my own opinion forged through a multitude of experiences with many brands. I admire all cameras for what they are.

My case for the K5 is noted, that is my opinion.

--

http://photographic-central.blogspot.com/

"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude; nothing can help the man with wrong one."
-Thomas Jefferson
 
MusicDoctorDJ wrote:

"But the EVF is here now, and it is at the point of surpassing the OVF in quality, despite whether you believe it or not! "
This is what I mean. I've used the EVF, as have many reviewers and the consensus is just about the same amongst the field. Its the best EVF but it's not quite perfected yet and certainly not better than the high end OVF's out there (think $1,500.00 DSLRs and above- like the Canon 7D, Nikon D7000, Pentax K5 and above).
So . . . you say that you have used the EVF in the A65 and A77, yet your profile shows that you live in the US of A.

Considering that neither of those new cameras are available yet in the US of A, I find it hard to believe that you've actually tried them out.

According to Sony, they probably won't hit the shelves for at least another two weeks . . . and due to the floods in Thailand, that is a big IF.

And if you are using the EVF from the A33/35/55, then you are in for a great big treat once you do get to try out the new ones!

I just hope that you are open minded enough to really look at them instead of holding the old "OVF will always be better!" grudge that so many exhibit around here.
So I think he's quite open minded about the subject, perhaps you aren't ? You give no cause to think otherwise at this point.
So no, neither of you seem to really be open minded about these and are just spouting off a bunch of personal opinion about something neither of you have no real experience with to spout off all of that mantra.

However, I have tried them (A65, A77, Nex 5n & Nex 7 - all pre-production models), as I mentioned above at a Sony new camera seminar last week, unlike you two guys, who probably only own one or two DSLR's, and maybe have looked at a few more cameras in a cameras store or Best Buy, and can not have seen the new Sony's if you are indeed in the US of A.

Nice try, though . . . I'll give you that.

But next time try actually using the actual item before telling us how bad it is.

I, on the other hand, sell cameras for a living in a camera store and have had access to just about every DSLR and DSLR-like model that has been and still is available on an every day basis for years.

So yes . . . I do have cause and experience with many DSLR's, OVF's and EVF's and have tried them all out.

Heck . . . I almost was one of those digital haters that thought film would always be better than digital . . . but I finally did wake up and saw the light!

It has been almost seven years since the last roll of film went through one of my Canon F1n's.

Not to mention that I made my living for over 20 years looking through 35mm OVF's and 4x5 ground glass, so I do know a good viewfinder when I see one!

--
J. D.
Colorado
 
A77--Great Video, convenient onboard GPS, nice 24MP Resolotion, Performance with High ISO?, "Oh ya we forgot about that one."
a77 is 24 MP, when viewed (or printed) equal size, the low-light high ISO score on dxomark is the same as Kx (around ISO 800), despite losing 1/2 stop to mirror. That isn't bad.
 

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