1D discontinued?

OhioMike · Dec 14, 2002

My camera shop here says he isnt receiving any more 1D units and believes the camera has eben discontinued by Canon. He says all he can get now are refurbished units. Has anyone else heard anything along these lines? Perhaps this means Canon will be putting out a 1D upgrade this spring at PMA. I dont consider the 1DS to be a 1D upgrade in the sense that it isnt marketed towards the same crowd(sports photogs etc ).

--
Mike
-------------------------------------------------
http://www.phototracks.net

Anders59921 · Dec 14, 2002

Hi,

What will the price of the refurbs be and will he ship overseas (Denmark).

Best regards,
Anders

OhioMike said:
My camera shop here says he isnt receiving any more 1D units and
believes the camera has eben discontinued by Canon. He says all he
can get now are refurbished units. Has anyone else heard anything
along these lines? Perhaps this means Canon will be putting out a
1D upgrade this spring at PMA. I dont consider the 1DS to be a 1D
upgrade in the sense that it isnt marketed towards the same
crowd(sports photogs etc ).

--
Mike
-------------------------------------------------
http://www.phototracks.net

--
http://www.pbase.com/dna

OhioMike · Dec 14, 2002

Anders, I dont think they are buying them. They have a amrket still for new 1D units but they arent getting any from Canon. They are only being offerred refurbished units.
--
Mike
-------------------------------------------------
http://www.phototracks.net

Steve13285 · Dec 14, 2002

I don't think that the 1D has been formally discontinued - these rumors start on this forum within weeks of each new camera release.

OTOH it's common knowledge that Canon will be introducing a new pro "sports" DSLR in March. Lots of speculation on what it might have - the only thing that's really showing the age of the 1D is the resolution. Most are guessing an 6-8MP sensor. Likely a larger (maybe even fullframe) sensor. No guess on CCD vs CMOS. Each has it's positives and negatives. CMOS is great for power consumption but very expensive and difficult to manufacture. I believe Canon knows they can't bring a 1D replacement out and charge more than have for the 1D, so that will force some compromises on the design. Battery will still be NiMH, no doubt. Probably a larger shooting buffer and ability to "zoom" on the LCD screen.
Regards,
Steve

OhioMike said:
My camera shop here says he isnt receiving any more 1D units and
believes the camera has eben discontinued by Canon. He says all he
can get now are refurbished units. Has anyone else heard anything
along these lines? Perhaps this means Canon will be putting out a
1D upgrade this spring at PMA. I dont consider the 1DS to be a 1D
upgrade in the sense that it isnt marketed towards the same
crowd(sports photogs etc ).

--
Mike
-------------------------------------------------
http://www.phototracks.net

Michael Salzlechner · Dec 14, 2002

RE:

CMOS is great for power consumption but very expensive and difficult

you are correct in terms of power consumption but CMOS is also cheaper to produce than CCD.

--
Michael Salzlechner
StarZen Digital Imaging
http://www.starzen.com/imaging

click click · Dec 14, 2002

OhioMike said:
My camera shop here says he isnt receiving any more 1D units and
believes the camera has eben discontinued by Canon. He says all he
can get now are refurbished units. Has anyone else heard anything
along these lines? Perhaps this means Canon will be putting out a
1D upgrade this spring at PMA. I dont consider the 1DS to be a 1D
upgrade in the sense that it isnt marketed towards the same
crowd(sports photogs etc ).

--
Mike
-------------------------------------------------
http://www.phototracks.net

now i feel much better about not buying a refub 1d. will wait for new one and keep the money in the bank!!

Steve13285 · Dec 14, 2002

. Historically (with smaller CMOSes) you are obviously correct.

My statement is based on Canon's comments about the difficulty they are having with yields on the larger (1Ds) CMOS sensors. At least according to them, the low yields and startup costs associated with these newer chips are making them very expensive. Also Kodak is having a great deal of difficulty manufacturing large frame CMOS chips for their new camera, so much so that they have delayed release until they can correct problems and produce sufficient quantities of good chips for sales.

Of course if the new 1D replacement uses a 6MP sensor like on the D60 it wouldn't be much of an issue.
Regards,
Steve

Mike Salzlechner said:
RE:

CMOS is great for power consumption but very expensive and difficult

you are correct in terms of power consumption but CMOS is also
cheaper to produce than CCD.

--
Michael Salzlechner
StarZen Digital Imaging
http://www.starzen.com/imaging

BobHo · Dec 14, 2002

If Canon uses a sensor with more pixels, they will probably have to reduce the frame rate below 8 frames per second. I think that they want to avoid this at all costs.

Both the 1D and 1Ds process about 33 million pixels per second, and I don't think that this is coincidental. (Somebody here once commented that maybe Canon used the same firmware in the 1D and 1Ds, with the model number being a configuration parameter.) Going to a 6 million pixel sensor at 8 frames per second requires processing 48 million pixels per second. Among other things, increasing the speed like that is likely to increase power consumption and the amount of heat being generated by the integrated circuits.
I think that the 1D will be with us for a couple more years.

--
Bob

mark kay · Dec 14, 2002

I agree with you and believe in March there will be an announcement of a new DSLR but not a 1D Replacement but who knows.

Bob Howland said:
If Canon uses a sensor with more pixels, they will probably have to
reduce the frame rate below 8 frames per second. I think that they
want to avoid this at all costs.
Both the 1D and 1Ds process about 33 million pixels per second, and
I don't think that this is coincidental. (Somebody here once
commented that maybe Canon used the same firmware in the 1D and
1Ds, with the model number being a configuration parameter.) Going
to a 6 million pixel sensor at 8 frames per second requires
processing 48 million pixels per second. Among other things,
increasing the speed like that is likely to increase power
consumption and the amount of heat being generated by the
integrated circuits.
I think that the 1D will be with us for a couple more years.

--
Bob

inigo guionnet · Dec 14, 2002

Bob Howland said:
If Canon uses a sensor with more pixels, they will probably have to
reduce the frame rate below 8 frames per second. I think that they
want to avoid this at all costs.
Both the 1D and 1Ds process about 33 million pixels per second, and
I don't think that this is coincidental. (Somebody here once
commented that maybe Canon used the same firmware in the 1D and
1Ds, with the model number being a configuration parameter.) Going
to a 6 million pixel sensor at 8 frames per second requires
processing 48 million pixels per second. Among other things,
increasing the speed like that is likely to increase power
consumption and the amount of heat being generated by the
integrated circuits.
I think that the 1D will be with us for a couple more years.

--
Bob

'Ozy' · Dec 14, 2002

We who bought our 1D's at the $4200 price range are enjoying the benefits of an amazing camera at half the introduced price when the 1D was released. If there is a new camera on the horizon, regardless of if its true or not, I do not regret buying the 1D now. The new 1D replacement will be back up at the original retail of $7000 which is way out of my price range. The 1D is a FANTASTIC camera and always will be even if a revision comes out next year. I'll wait for that revision to drop in price before picking it up too. I don't need to live on the bleeding edge because its still an up and coming profession that isn't my primary source of income yet.

OhioMike said:
My camera shop here says he isnt receiving any more 1D units and
believes the camera has eben discontinued by Canon. He says all he
can get now are refurbished units. Has anyone else heard anything
along these lines? Perhaps this means Canon will be putting out a
1D upgrade this spring at PMA. I dont consider the 1DS to be a 1D
upgrade in the sense that it isnt marketed towards the same
crowd(sports photogs etc ).

--
Mike
-------------------------------------------------
http://www.phototracks.net

--
Ozy
http://www.carandmodel.com
1D, D60, 70-200L f2.8 IS, 16-35L, 28-135 IS, & 50 f1.4, 550EX

Michael Long · Dec 14, 2002

If Canon is trying to catch up on 1DS orders they could have "borrowed" the 1D production line to make 1DS's...

George Montemayor · Dec 14, 2002

Bob Howland said:
If Canon uses a sensor with more pixels, they will probably have to
reduce the frame rate below 8 frames per second. I think that they
want to avoid this at all costs.
Both the 1D and 1Ds process about 33 million pixels per second, and
I don't think that this is coincidental. (Somebody here once
commented that maybe Canon used the same firmware in the 1D and
1Ds, with the model number being a configuration parameter.) Going
to a 6 million pixel sensor at 8 frames per second requires
processing 48 million pixels per second. Among other things,
increasing the speed like that is likely to increase power
consumption and the amount of heat being generated by the
integrated circuits.

There's no reason they can't use a smaller die size for the faster DSP.

--
George

EOS D-Thirty ~ Twenty-four/Two-point-eight ~ Fifty/one-point-four ~ Eighty-five/one-point-eight ~ Two hundred/two-point-eight ~ Four hundred and twenty EX

Montharus · Dec 14, 2002

well, "maybe" there's goinig to be a new model with full frame sensor like 1Ds but with lower resolution....who knows?

--
...timeless, ordered, simply stated, or even implied...

Peter Gregg · Dec 14, 2002

This information is not true.

First, CMOS are cheaper and easier to build. They require LESS electronis not more, which also reduces power consumption.

Next, Canon's comments where in relation to their new factory, not the construction technology of their sensors.

Next, Kodak is not building their CMOS chip, nor are they having a problem with it. The problems lie elsewhere, and if you read carefull between the lines you can almost figure out what the problems are even though they won't admit it. The Kodak sensors are being built by a company overseas and that company is buying technology from a company in Israel.

Peter Gregg

Steve said:
My statement is based on Canon's comments about the difficulty they
are having with yields on the larger (1Ds) CMOS sensors. At least
according to them, the low yields and startup costs associated with
these newer chips are making them very expensive. Also Kodak is
having a great deal of difficulty manufacturing large frame CMOS
chips for their new camera, so much so that they have delayed
release until they can correct problems and produce sufficient
quantities of good chips for sales.
Of course if the new 1D replacement uses a 6MP sensor like on the
D60 it wouldn't be much of an issue.
Regards,
Steve

Mike Salzlechner said:

RE:

CMOS is great for power consumption but very expensive and difficult

you are correct in terms of power consumption but CMOS is also
cheaper to produce than CCD.

--
Michael Salzlechner
StarZen Digital Imaging
http://www.starzen.com/imaging

Click to expand...

Browning · Dec 14, 2002

I live in Hong Kong, as I can see there is 1Ds in the shelves of every major camera store, even in some store that sell more than just camera like home applicant. this situation never happen to 1D and D60 when they first come out.
I think the price of 1Ds is just too high for most of the people.

Michael Long said:
If Canon is trying to catch up on 1DS orders they could have
"borrowed" the 1D production line to make 1DS's...

Peter Phan · Dec 14, 2002

Browning said:
I think the price of 1Ds is just too high for most of the people.

Yes, but we probably have to remember that the 1Ds isn't designed for "most of the people" in the first place. It's like medium format film cameras, which aren't made for most people either. No, I think there is a new "most of the people"-type camera coming out some time soon. The 1Ds was not that camera, nor was it meant to be.

Newk · Dec 15, 2002

And it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the 1D was replaced soon by a camera with slightly more pixels. 4.2 MP just doesn't sound like much when the D60 has nearly 50% more, and when there's a glut of consumer-grade 4 MP cameras on the shelves in the $5-$800 range. And all these refurbished units for $2500 and $2700 make it hard to believe that Canon plans to continue selling the 1D for $5000. You'll usually see these reburbished units available about the time a camera is going to be replaced.

NOt knocking it. I got one of those reburbished units on the way!

Peter Phan said:
Browning said:

I think the price of 1Ds is just too high for most of the people.

Click to expand...

Yes, but we probably have to remember that the 1Ds isn't designed
for "most of the people" in the first place. It's like medium
format film cameras, which aren't made for most people either. No,
I think there is a new "most of the people"-type camera coming out
some time soon. The 1Ds was not that camera, nor was it meant to
be.

John Mason · Dec 15, 2002

When I read their press release, I'm here it as " we are trying to lower the effective noise on this cmos monster we are releasing - and we don't have canon's patents - so we'll do it through firmware as best we can "

Just a guess.

There resolution won't be worth much if it's noisy.

Peter Gregg said:
First, CMOS are cheaper and easier to build. They require LESS
electronis not more, which also reduces power consumption.

Next, Canon's comments where in relation to their new factory, not
the construction technology of their sensors.

Next, Kodak is not building their CMOS chip, nor are they having a
problem with it. The problems lie elsewhere, and if you read
carefull between the lines you can almost figure out what the
problems are even though they won't admit it. The Kodak sensors are
being built by a company overseas and that company is buying
technology from a company in Israel.

Peter Gregg

Steve said:

My statement is based on Canon's comments about the difficulty they
are having with yields on the larger (1Ds) CMOS sensors. At least
according to them, the low yields and startup costs associated with
these newer chips are making them very expensive. Also Kodak is
having a great deal of difficulty manufacturing large frame CMOS
chips for their new camera, so much so that they have delayed
release until they can correct problems and produce sufficient
quantities of good chips for sales.
Of course if the new 1D replacement uses a 6MP sensor like on the
D60 it wouldn't be much of an issue.
Regards,
Steve

Mike Salzlechner said:

RE:

CMOS is great for power consumption but very expensive and difficult

you are correct in terms of power consumption but CMOS is also
cheaper to produce than CCD.

--
Michael Salzlechner
StarZen Digital Imaging
http://www.starzen.com/imaging

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--

--
John Mason - Lafayette, IN

John Mason · Dec 15, 2002

Might be a larger sensor CCD. Being CCD it will still dump pixels faster than CMOS so should still be a fast fps camera. That would be the most logical upgrade.

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