Snobbish SLR pro did NOT like my F717 and.........

neither does he care for digital photography at ALL !!

This all came about as I was chit chatting with a local photographer who sets up a table of his photos as matted prints for sale each night at a mini art / crafts "thing" on the beach.

I walked over to compliment him on his work and he saw my F717 dangling from my neck strap and asked..... "oh is that a digital camera?" Well, that's all he needed to hear!! First, he tells me all his shots were taken with his Nikon F2 (I think that's what he said) and how he just "can't get into digital photography". I asked him why he can't get into digital and, it all came out like anger / frustration / jealousy etc.

Here's what he had to say to me:

you guys with the digital cameras and your "perfect photographs" fixed up like they'd been taken to surgery, where sugically all blemishes are removed. Then there's the doctored images, so fake and obviously could not created without the assistance of a computer... might as well be a wrestling match!

I kept my cool, did not fire back any insults, did not tell him his comments were borderline insulting.....

I just said this.......

Yeah, isn't it great !!!!!!!! And I quietly moved on.

LOL

Mark J said:

I kept my cool, did not fire back any insults, did not tell him his
comments were borderline insulting.....

Click to expand...

He's a real charmer. I guess he didn't sell you too many pictures. Sounds like he should hire someone else to interface to the customer. I really don't understand this rivalry between digital and film. I mean... film sucks, end of story.

Charles.
--
The other day I went to... no wait, that was someone else.
Sony 707 (Since Oct 14, 2002)
Canon S100 (Since Feb 2001)
http://homepage.mac.com/charlesclloyd

Ha. Pretty reserved comeback for you! lol

I think the biggest factor for film photographers to attack digital is intimidation. Many of these photographers don't know computers. They feel challenged now by a medium they don't know, but have been doing their whole careers. And the longer they wait the more painful it's going to be. It will change when he realizes the his clients don't care if it's film or digital, only that they want the best image. Setup a table next to him and see how fast he starts to reconsider....

Thanks for sharing your encounter Mark.

Jim

Mark J said:

neither does he care for digital photography at ALL !!

This all came about as I was chit chatting with a local
photographer who sets up a table of his photos as matted prints for
sale each night at a mini art / crafts "thing" on the beach.

I walked over to compliment him on his work and he saw my F717
dangling from my neck strap and asked..... "oh is that a digital
camera?" Well, that's all he needed to hear!! First, he tells me
all his shots were taken with his Nikon F2 (I think that's what he
said) and how he just "can't get into digital photography". I asked
him why he can't get into digital and, it all came out like anger /
frustration / jealousy etc.

Here's what he had to say to me:
you guys with the digital cameras and your "perfect photographs"
fixed up like they'd been taken to surgery, where sugically all
blemishes are removed. Then there's the doctored images, so fake
and obviously could not created without the assistance of a
computer... might as well be a wrestling match!

I kept my cool, did not fire back any insults, did not tell him his
comments were borderline insulting.....

I just said this.......

Yeah, isn't it great !!!!!!!! And I quietly moved on.

LOL

Click to expand...

--
Jim Fuglestad

Skill in photography is acquired by practice and not by purchase. -Percy W. Harris
Our existence is determined by the truths we tell.
Why simply live and let live? Live and help live.
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

Charles C Lloyd wrote:
I mean... film sucks, end of story.

lol. I chuckled out loud when I read that.

Thanks Charles.

Charles C Lloyd said:

Charles.
--
The other day I went to... no wait, that was someone else.
Sony 707 (Since Oct 14, 2002)
Canon S100 (Since Feb 2001)
http://homepage.mac.com/charlesclloyd

Click to expand...

--
Jim Fuglestad

Skill in photography is acquired by practice and not by purchase. -Percy W. Harris
Our existence is determined by the truths we tell.
Why simply live and let live? Live and help live.
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

You are right on with your "take" on the digital attitude some SLR pros take on Shutter.

As for my response.... VERY conservative for me indeed!! lol

I just figured there is nothing I'm going to be able to say that would have any worth in this man's mind. He'd just shrug it off as "digital gibberish"

And when you find one as stubborn as this one, you just have to leave it alone... which was my choice for response, even though some might take my response as a bit of a jab

Some day, when digital cameras have been perfected to the point of why even bother owning an SLR... maybe, just maybe the digital haters will come around and take a common sense approach to things ?

Mark J

Shutter said:

I think the biggest factor for film photographers to attack digital
is intimidation. Many of these photographers don't know computers.
They feel challenged now by a medium they don't know, but have been
doing their whole careers. And the longer they wait the more
painful it's going to be. It will change when he realizes the his
clients don't care if it's film or digital, only that they want the
best image. Setup a table next to him and see how fast he starts
to reconsider....

Thanks for sharing your encounter Mark.

Jim

Mark J said:

neither does he care for digital photography at ALL !!

This all came about as I was chit chatting with a local
photographer who sets up a table of his photos as matted prints for
sale each night at a mini art / crafts "thing" on the beach.

I walked over to compliment him on his work and he saw my F717
dangling from my neck strap and asked..... "oh is that a digital
camera?" Well, that's all he needed to hear!! First, he tells me
all his shots were taken with his Nikon F2 (I think that's what he
said) and how he just "can't get into digital photography". I asked
him why he can't get into digital and, it all came out like anger /
frustration / jealousy etc.

Here's what he had to say to me:
you guys with the digital cameras and your "perfect photographs"
fixed up like they'd been taken to surgery, where sugically all
blemishes are removed. Then there's the doctored images, so fake
and obviously could not created without the assistance of a
computer... might as well be a wrestling match!

I kept my cool, did not fire back any insults, did not tell him his
comments were borderline insulting.....

I just said this.......

Yeah, isn't it great !!!!!!!! And I quietly moved on.

LOL

Click to expand...

--
Jim Fuglestad
Skill in photography is acquired by practice and not by purchase.
-Percy W. Harris
Our existence is determined by the truths we tell.
Why simply live and let live? Live and help live.
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

Click to expand...

Photographers who don't go digital just don't know how to use the computer.

--
[email protected]

Mark J said:

You are right on with your "take" on the digital attitude some SLR
pros take on Shutter.

As for my response.... VERY conservative for me indeed!! lol
I just figured there is nothing I'm going to be able to say that
would have any worth in this man's mind. He'd just shrug it off as
"digital gibberish"
And when you find one as stubborn as this one, you just have to
leave it alone... which was my choice for response, even though
some might take my response as a bit of a jab

Some day, when digital cameras have been perfected to the point of
why even bother owning an SLR... maybe, just maybe the digital
haters will come around and take a common sense approach to things ?

Click to expand...

Evidently this pro doesn't read Popular Photography. Every issue it seems there's another famous pro who's going digital. Maybe they just aren't producing pictures of comparable quality to the guy hawking his stuff on the beach ;-).

Your only comment summed it up better then you realize.

Hal

Mark J said:

neither does he care for digital photography at ALL !!

This all came about as I was chit chatting with a local
photographer who sets up a table of his photos as matted prints for
sale each night at a mini art / crafts "thing" on the beach.

I walked over to compliment him on his work and he saw my F717
dangling from my neck strap and asked..... "oh is that a digital
camera?" Well, that's all he needed to hear!! First, he tells me
all his shots were taken with his Nikon F2 (I think that's what he
said) and how he just "can't get into digital photography". I asked
him why he can't get into digital and, it all came out like anger /
frustration / jealousy etc.

Here's what he had to say to me:
you guys with the digital cameras and your "perfect photographs"
fixed up like they'd been taken to surgery, where sugically all
blemishes are removed. Then there's the doctored images, so fake
and obviously could not created without the assistance of a
computer... might as well be a wrestling match!

I kept my cool, did not fire back any insults, did not tell him his
comments were borderline insulting.....

I just said this.......

Yeah, isn't it great !!!!!!!! And I quietly moved on.

LOL

Click to expand...

Mark,

I guess we bump into all sorts, day to day. Sad fact is some people take their own perceptions (right, wrong, indifferent) and reinforce them with the equivalent of rebar and mortar. Yah know: Step up to the brick wall and speak clearly. Too often I let these buttheads (a) stir me to anger, or (b) waste my time. Beyond representing digital photography well, you set a good example. Cool customer. Nicely done.

Note to self: Count to ten, then do that...
--
Joe
DSC-F717, http://pbase/misterpix

Mark J said:

neither does he care for digital photography at ALL !!

This all came about as I was chit chatting with a local
photographer who sets up a table of his photos as matted prints for
sale each night at a mini art / crafts "thing" on the beach.

I walked over to compliment him on his work and he saw my F717
dangling from my neck strap and asked..... "oh is that a digital
camera?" Well, that's all he needed to hear!! First, he tells me
all his shots were taken with his Nikon F2 (I think that's what he
said) and how he just "can't get into digital photography". I asked
him why he can't get into digital and, it all came out like anger /
frustration / jealousy etc.

Here's what he had to say to me:
you guys with the digital cameras and your "perfect photographs"
fixed up like they'd been taken to surgery, where sugically all
blemishes are removed. Then there's the doctored images, so fake
and obviously could not created without the assistance of a
computer... might as well be a wrestling match!

I kept my cool, did not fire back any insults, did not tell him his
comments were borderline insulting.....

I just said this.......

Yeah, isn't it great !!!!!!!! And I quietly moved on.

LOL

Click to expand...

Mark J said:

neither does he care for digital photography at ALL !!

This all came about as I was chit chatting with a local
photographer who sets up a table of his photos as matted prints for
sale each night at a mini art / crafts "thing" on the beach.

I walked over to compliment him on his work and he saw my F717
dangling from my neck strap and asked..... "oh is that a digital
camera?" Well, that's all he needed to hear!! First, he tells me
all his shots were taken with his Nikon F2 (I think that's what he
said) and how he just "can't get into digital photography". I asked
him why he can't get into digital and, it all came out like anger /
frustration / jealousy etc.

Here's what he had to say to me:
you guys with the digital cameras and your "perfect photographs"
fixed up like they'd been taken to surgery, where sugically all
blemishes are removed. Then there's the doctored images, so fake
and obviously could not created without the assistance of a
computer... might as well be a wrestling match!

I kept my cool, did not fire back any insults, did not tell him his
comments were borderline insulting.....

I just said this.......

Yeah, isn't it great !!!!!!!! And I quietly moved on.

LOL

Click to expand...

Hmmm, I have known film photographers who spend hours in the dark room adjusting their photos. They are doing the same sort of things that we do digitally, including adjusting colors and contrast, eliminating imperfections, etc. In other words, making the "perfect photographs". I recently spoke with a photographer who had just purchased a negative scanner, so he could do in minutes on a computer that which takes hours to do in the dark room.

But consider your source, how much of an authority is a guy who is selling his wares on the beach. Maybe if this guy were more astute and talented(?) he would be selling out of his own gallery.
--
Brooks
F717, HP315, Minolta Maxxum 5000i

'We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it -- and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again -- and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one any more.' Pudd'nhead Wilson

Some film pros do have digitals but very purposely fake-up their digital work, then promote the idea that all digital photography is a manufactured product of the computer.

I'm not sure a lack of being astute is the case here....

some people find the cost of opening a gallery too much of a "nut to crack", which is probably why he's on the beach with a little card table selling his wares.

Joke is: I found out the guy sold some to a few retail stores on the beach (customers of mine) and, he's selling his own work for the same price he charged the retail store!! Frankly, this is poor business practice and will tarnish his reputation should he ever truly delve further into the wholesale end of the market.

I think after thinking all this through, he's probably a frustrated photographer who is not making enough $$$ from his work and is starting to get into a feeling of desparation...... that's what I think?

It's not easy "out there" these days, but if you are patient, don't take shortcuts that could hurt you later and, you work hard.....

everything will fall into place.

Thanks for your comments on my ordeal

Mark J

Brooks P said:

Mark J said:

neither does he care for digital photography at ALL !!

This all came about as I was chit chatting with a local
photographer who sets up a table of his photos as matted prints for
sale each night at a mini art / crafts "thing" on the beach.

I walked over to compliment him on his work and he saw my F717
dangling from my neck strap and asked..... "oh is that a digital
camera?" Well, that's all he needed to hear!! First, he tells me
all his shots were taken with his Nikon F2 (I think that's what he
said) and how he just "can't get into digital photography". I asked
him why he can't get into digital and, it all came out like anger /
frustration / jealousy etc.

Here's what he had to say to me:
you guys with the digital cameras and your "perfect photographs"
fixed up like they'd been taken to surgery, where sugically all
blemishes are removed. Then there's the doctored images, so fake
and obviously could not created without the assistance of a
computer... might as well be a wrestling match!

I kept my cool, did not fire back any insults, did not tell him his
comments were borderline insulting.....

I just said this.......

Yeah, isn't it great !!!!!!!! And I quietly moved on.

LOL

Click to expand...

Hmmm, I have known film photographers who spend hours in the dark
room adjusting their photos. They are doing the same sort of things
that we do digitally, including adjusting colors and contrast,
eliminating imperfections, etc. In other words, making the "perfect
photographs". I recently spoke with a photographer who had just
purchased a negative scanner, so he could do in minutes on a
computer that which takes hours to do in the dark room.

But consider your source, how much of an authority is a guy who is
selling his wares on the beach. Maybe if this guy were more astute
and talented(?) he would be selling out of his own gallery.
--
Brooks
F717, HP315, Minolta Maxxum 5000i
'We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom
that is in it -- and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits
down on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid
again -- and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a
cold one any more.' Pudd'nhead Wilson

Click to expand...

Mr. Stacey...

I think you are right in some cases but, in many others the factors for not "going digital" are purely emotional.....

some may be thinking on tihs order: I am NOT going to get rid of my SLR that has served me so well for so long for some digital toy.

Others it just might be an emotional tie to the camera itself!! I know how much I loved my old Canon AE1-P, so I can relate to that somewhat.

You know what I'm driving at here ?

Mark J

Mr. Stacey said:

Photographers who don't go digital just don't know how to use the
computer.

--
[email protected]

Click to expand...

mxcat said:

Some film pros do have digitals but very purposely fake-up their
digital work, then promote the idea that all digital photography is
a manufactured product of the computer.

Click to expand...

I talked with one guy who tried to tell me that photography was an art form and an artist would only use film. When I tried to point out that painters use all sorts of medium (oils, water colors, etc) he looked at me shook his head and said something about how not being a purist I just couldn't understand. And you know what? he is absolutely right.

I would have pointed out to him that those that don't adapt to a changing environment become extinct, but what the @#$%, being a purist he wouldn't have understood.
--
Brooks
F717, HP315, Minolta Maxxum 5000i

'We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it -- and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again -- and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one any more.' Pudd'nhead Wilson

Mark J said:

neither does he care for digital photography at ALL !!

This all came about as I was chit chatting with a local
photographer who sets up a table of his photos as matted prints for
sale each night at a mini art / crafts "thing" on the beach.

I walked over to compliment him on his work and he saw my F717
dangling from my neck strap and asked..... "oh is that a digital
camera?" Well, that's all he needed to hear!! First, he tells me
all his shots were taken with his Nikon F2 (I think that's what he
said) and how he just "can't get into digital photography". I asked
him why he can't get into digital and, it all came out like anger /
frustration / jealousy etc.

Here's what he had to say to me:
you guys with the digital cameras and your "perfect photographs"
fixed up like they'd been taken to surgery, where sugically all
blemishes are removed. Then there's the doctored images, so fake
and obviously could not created without the assistance of a
computer... might as well be a wrestling match!

I kept my cool, did not fire back any insults, did not tell him his
comments were borderline insulting.....

I just said this.......

Yeah, isn't it great !!!!!!!! And I quietly moved on.

LOL

Click to expand...

--

Maybe he better sell more of his photos so he can afford a digital camera... typical LOL! Thanks for the info Mark.

Roland
Sony S75, F505, 505V, PC110E

Mark J said:

some people find the cost of opening a gallery too much of a "nut
to crack", which is probably why he's on the beach with a little
card table selling his wares.

Click to expand...

Very very true, but I think this guy might be doomed to selling his wares on the beach if his photographic capibilities are on a par with his business capibilities

Mark J said:

Joke is: I found out the guy sold some to a few retail stores on
the beach (customers of mine) and, he's selling his own work for
the same price he charged the retail store!! Frankly, this is poor
business practice and will tarnish his reputation should he ever
truly delve further into the wholesale end of the market.

Click to expand...

I'm in retail, and your right. Retailers don't like vendors who are also their competition, especially if the vendor is going to undercut them on the selling price.

Mark J said:

I think after thinking all this through, he's probably a frustrated
photographer who is not making enough $$$ from his work and is
starting to get into a feeling of desparation...... that's what I
think?

Click to expand...

Of course there is a lot more to good photos than the technical aspects, which can be tweeked and/or corrected. If the subject matter and composition aren't good to start with well.....

--
Brooks
F717, HP315, Minolta Maxxum 5000i

'We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it -- and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again -- and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one any more.' Pudd'nhead Wilson

I had one guy when he found I had a digital, he he didn't wanna sell me bulbs...

Mark J said:

As for my response.... VERY conservative for me indeed!! lol
I just figured there is nothing I'm going to be able to say that
would have any worth in this man's mind. He'd just shrug it off as
"digital gibberish"
And when you find one as stubborn as this one, you just have to
leave it alone... which was my choice for response, even though
some might take my response as a bit of a jab

Some day, when digital cameras have been perfected to the point of
why even bother owning an SLR... maybe, just maybe the digital
haters will come around and take a common sense approach to things ?

Mark J

Shutter said:

I think the biggest factor for film photographers to attack digital
is intimidation. Many of these photographers don't know computers.
They feel challenged now by a medium they don't know, but have been
doing their whole careers. And the longer they wait the more
painful it's going to be. It will change when he realizes the his
clients don't care if it's film or digital, only that they want the
best image. Setup a table next to him and see how fast he starts
to reconsider....

Thanks for sharing your encounter Mark.

Jim

Mark J said:

neither does he care for digital photography at ALL !!

This all came about as I was chit chatting with a local
photographer who sets up a table of his photos as matted prints for
sale each night at a mini art / crafts "thing" on the beach.

I walked over to compliment him on his work and he saw my F717
dangling from my neck strap and asked..... "oh is that a digital
camera?" Well, that's all he needed to hear!! First, he tells me
all his shots were taken with his Nikon F2 (I think that's what he
said) and how he just "can't get into digital photography". I asked
him why he can't get into digital and, it all came out like anger /
frustration / jealousy etc.

Here's what he had to say to me:
you guys with the digital cameras and your "perfect photographs"
fixed up like they'd been taken to surgery, where sugically all
blemishes are removed. Then there's the doctored images, so fake
and obviously could not created without the assistance of a
computer... might as well be a wrestling match!

I kept my cool, did not fire back any insults, did not tell him his
comments were borderline insulting.....

I just said this.......

Yeah, isn't it great !!!!!!!! And I quietly moved on.

LOL

Click to expand...

--
Jim Fuglestad
Skill in photography is acquired by practice and not by purchase.
-Percy W. Harris
Our existence is determined by the truths we tell.
Why simply live and let live? Live and help live.
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Wow, what a narrow minded jerk. Hopefully he will realize he is being unreasonable before it is too late. Sounds like he has a limited skill set if he does not do any touch ups now in any way. No wonder he bristles at the outstanding results from pro film and many digital photographers, he can't get them himself and sounds like he isn't even trying.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 & F717 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
My F717 Observations: http://www.shaystephens.com/f717.asp

"Then there's the doctored images, so fake and obviously could not created without the assistance of a computer... might as well be a wrestling match!"

As opposed to the obvious fakes that could have only been created with the assistance of an air brush?

This is the same guy that is probably still doing all word processing on the typewriter.....It's more real that way....

I have been attending Photoshop classes and color management classes. There are many life long photographers in these classes. What I have learned from these experiences......I thought I was going to be intimidated with these types in these classes. Actually, these people want to learn but "Hate" to show their ignorance about computers/digital. Keep in mind I said "ignorance" because these are not stupid people and most are very talented in photography. IN a snap of a finger, these guys had point and shoot photographers, somewhat, brought up closer to their levels in regards to the technical specifics of photography.

They have been comfortable in their little segment of the world for some time. In the past, people could not just jump into photography and start taking semi-good pics. They see this and feel that their world is starting to shrink.

It amazes me that people do not pay attention to history and prepare themselves for change. It has happened so many time before. Look what PC's did to so many jobs when they first became popular in the work place. Look at manufacturing lines.....

Moral of this story is if this guy just sits and complains and does not adapt, he is writing the end of his own story....