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Adobe Sure Does Make Shopping Complicated

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Alternative Energy Photography

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Rambling thoughts.

I recently bought a Nikon D7000. I plan to spend a bit of time with the included software before I actually buy any organization or editing software. But I began some informal research to see what's available.

Adobe seems to be the Rolls Royce of the software vendors, with commensurate pricing.

The CS bundles seem to be the most appealing, but no single suite seems to have everything that I think I might want. Well except for Master. But that price is .. er, the "most commensurate" of all! Maybe my problem is I want it all. :D

By comparison, Paint Shop Pro is very affordable. No, it doesn't have "everything" that the Adobe suites have but the price delta makes it easier to justify. Well, it would be easier if I didn't think I'd eventually have to relent and buy CS down the road, haha! But I still have a couple of lenses to buy. Fish to fry and all...

I guess it's a good problem to have. Luckily for me, there's no rush. The first part is to get good with my camera, then to get good with the software. After I have time to see what the included Nikon software can do, maybe PSP would be a good choice for the time being. By the time I learned it, Adobe might have announced what CS 6 will include, and then I can go re-research all over again. :O

Not really asking for advice just yet. But I won't turn down any brilliant observations! :D
 
I'm not an expert on the Adobe offerings, but my strong impression is that the higher-end suites have programs that are for use in professional video production and editing, preparing documents for proofing and publication, etc. - in other words, capabilities that don't add anything if what you want to do is process and print your photographs.
 
No, in time you will learn how to use cs5.5. When cs6 is announced, you only have to learn a few new things, since 6 won't be a major upgrade, 5 was a major upgrade so 7 should be a major upgrade again. It's like an Adobe tradition.
Alternative Energy Photography said:
Rambling thoughts.

I recently bought a Nikon D7000. I plan to spend a bit of time with the included software before I actually buy any organization or editing software. But I began some informal research to see what's available.

Adobe seems to be the Rolls Royce of the software vendors, with commensurate pricing.

The CS bundles seem to be the most appealing, but no single suite seems to have everything that I think I might want. Well except for Master. But that price is .. er, the "most commensurate" of all! Maybe my problem is I want it all. :D

By comparison, Paint Shop Pro is very affordable. No, it doesn't have "everything" that the Adobe suites have but the price delta makes it easier to justify. Well, it would be easier if I didn't think I'd eventually have to relent and buy CS down the road, haha! But I still have a couple of lenses to buy. Fish to fry and all...

I guess it's a good problem to have. Luckily for me, there's no rush. The first part is to get good with my camera, then to get good with the software. After I have time to see what the included Nikon software can do, maybe PSP would be a good choice for the time being. By the time I learned it, Adobe might have announced what CS 6 will include, and then I can go re-research all over again. :O

Not really asking for advice just yet. But I won't turn down any brilliant observations! :D
Click to expand...
 
True, cs5.5 suite is targeted at the pro. It has lots of tools for professional printing and publication. For just image enhancements, you could look also into other packages. But the suite as a whole is very capable...unsurpassed.
SantaFeBill said:
I'm not an expert on the Adobe offerings, but my strong impression is that the higher-end suites have programs that are for use in professional video production and editing, preparing documents for proofing and publication, etc. - in other words, capabilities that don't add anything if what you want to do is process and print your photographs.
Click to expand...
 
Toermalijn,

This is the second time I've seen you make the statement that CS6 is only going to be a minor upgrade for Photoshop. Just for the heck of it, could you let us all in on how you came about getting this information. I'm not trying to be a wise guy, I would really like to know.

Fred
 
It should be known that after a major release, there will be only a minor release...so, following the Adobe tradition, cs6 will be a minor upgrade.

Cs5 was an exception, it was a real major upgrade. cs5.5 was also minor, with most applications not getting an update.

In that respect, i expect that cs6 will be minor compared to cs5!

cs5.5 is just an inbetween...only updating html 5 ,css3 etc.

So logically, we won't see as much new stuff in cs6 as was in cs5!

I am a long time creative suite user, so i know the adobe tradition of releases.
Twilight35 said:
Toermalijn,

This is the second time I've seen you make the statement that CS6 is only going to be a minor upgrade for Photoshop. Just for the heck of it, could you let us all in on how you came about getting this information. I'm not trying to be a wise guy, I would really like to know.

Fred
Click to expand...
 
EDIT:

i just found this on the web:

Adobe has publicly confirmed what they’ve been hinting for a while now: a new annual release schedule for the Creative Suite – with milestone releases in even years, and mid-cycle releases in odd years. The shift comes as the technology world turns faster from the previous cycles of 18-24 months historically.

So, obviously they changed the cycles, in this case, it might be that cs6 will be slightly major to cs5. I won't expect as much changes as cs5 brought us.

So, while my theory was true for the old cycle, i stand corrected for the new cycle, so cs6 might be considered major compared to cs5.5, wich indeed is a minor upgrade.

So, reading this, then cs6 should come out in 2012!

Reading this; it's best to upgrade every 2 years then, you'll get the major upgrades in the suite! BUT, it's stiull 2 years between major upgrades as it was before.
Toermalijn said:
It should be known that after a major release, there will be only a minor release...so, following the Adobe tradition, cs6 will be a minor upgrade.

Cs5 was an exception, it was a real major upgrade. cs5.5 was also minor, with most applications not getting an update.

In that respect, i expect that cs6 will be minor compared to cs5!

cs5.5 is just an inbetween...only updating html 5 ,css3 etc.

So logically, we won't see as much new stuff in cs6 as was in cs5!

I am a long time creative suite user, so i know the adobe tradition of releases.
Twilight35 said:
Toermalijn,

This is the second time I've seen you make the statement that CS6 is only going to be a minor upgrade for Photoshop. Just for the heck of it, could you let us all in on how you came about getting this information. I'm not trying to be a wise guy, I would really like to know.

Fred
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
My opinion:

Bang for the Buck: Photoshop elements.
Best professional setup: Adobe Lightroom + Photoshop CS5/CS5.5

I generally suggest using Lightroom, then add either Photoshop Elements or Photoshop CS5/5.5 if you need more editing power. Lightroom is actually several tools in one: Photo management system, browser, editor, print utility and slide show generator. I'd start there (if you are serious and expect to take a lot of photos) and only add Photoshop if you need more exotic editing.

--
Ken Elliott
Equipment in profile.
 
Good suggestion!

But i feel that if you allready own photoshop cs5 or 5.5 then the need for Lightroom is not that urgent...lets face it, photoshop is also a design tool that can do more then lightroom. Lightroom is a photographers tool, wich has some limitations.

Both use the same raw engine, same presets...it's not that hard to set up your own photo management system. Windows Explorer is your friend.

Personally, i think there are better asset management tools out there then lightroom, the advantage of lightroom is that it has them all under one roof.

It's anice photographers tool, if you do more then that, photoshop is the more powerful and better choice.
MasterOfGoingFaster said:
My opinion:

Bang for the Buck: Photoshop elements.
Best professional setup: Adobe Lightroom + Photoshop CS5/CS5.5

I generally suggest using Lightroom, then add either Photoshop Elements or Photoshop CS5/5.5 if you need more editing power. Lightroom is actually several tools in one: Photo management system, browser, editor, print utility and slide show generator. I'd start there (if you are serious and expect to take a lot of photos) and only add Photoshop if you need more exotic editing.

--
Ken Elliott
Equipment in profile.
Click to expand...
 
Toermalijn said:
Good suggestion!

...if you allready own photoshop cs5 or 5.5 then the need for Lightroom is not that urgent...lets face it, photoshop is also a design tool that can do more then lightroom. Lightroom is a photographers tool, wich has some limitations.

It's anice photographers tool, if you do more then that, photoshop is the more powerful and better choice.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the great information.

After I practice with the included Nikon software, I will revisit this and decide between lightroom and CS 5.5.

One clarification needed. You mention "Photoshop CS 5 or 5.5" a couple of times. Do you mean one of the suites, or just photoshop by itself? If referring to a suite, which one are you thinking of?

Thanks again,
 
I recently purchased the creative suite 5.5.

It includes photoshop 5.1 extended.

Some programs in the suite were updated to 5.5 not photoshop and some others.
Mostly the web and animation tools got upgraded.

All together, a very powerful suite.
Alternative Energy Photography said:
Toermalijn said:
Good suggestion!

...if you allready own photoshop cs5 or 5.5 then the need for Lightroom is not that urgent...lets face it, photoshop is also a design tool that can do more then lightroom. Lightroom is a photographers tool, wich has some limitations.

It's anice photographers tool, if you do more then that, photoshop is the more powerful and better choice.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the great information.

After I practice with the included Nikon software, I will revisit this and decide between lightroom and CS 5.5.

One clarification needed. You mention "Photoshop CS 5 or 5.5" a couple of times. Do you mean one of the suites, or just photoshop by itself? If referring to a suite, which one are you thinking of?

Thanks again,
Click to expand...
 
Alternative Energy Photography said:
Toermalijn said:
Good suggestion!

...if you allready own photoshop cs5 or 5.5 then the need for Lightroom is not that urgent...lets face it, photoshop is also a design tool that can do more then lightroom. Lightroom is a photographers tool, wich has some limitations.

It's anice photographers tool, if you do more then that, photoshop is the more powerful and better choice.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the great information.

After I practice with the included Nikon software, I will revisit this and decide between lightroom and CS 5.5.

One clarification needed. You mention "Photoshop CS 5 or 5.5" a couple of times. Do you mean one of the suites, or just photoshop by itself? If referring to a suite, which one are you thinking of?
Click to expand...
What other apps do you think you'd need? Premiere Pro? Illustrator? Dreamweaver? Indesign?

If you're just looking for a good to great photo editor I'd stick with Photoshop (CS5 or elements) and/or lightroom. I use illustrator and dreamweaver to design and build websites, and I use indesign to design brochures and newsletters for print. If you're new to all these apps I'd start with photoshop as the others are almost as complex and feature rich as photoshop and need lots of time to learn how to use them properly.

I use design premium and use almost all the apps but I feel stretched as there are specialists in every single app that's in the suite. If you'll be using all of them expect to be a master of maybe one or two of them and a jack of all trades of the rest only scratching the surface. It all depends on what you'll be doing with them of course. If it's for business or hobby use can make a huge difference.
--
Kind regards
Imqqmi



http://www.pbase.com/imqqmi

The DSLR jargon cheatsheet:
http://www.jmbfoto.nl/dslrcheatsheet.pdf

Sunset blending tutorial:
http://www.jmbfoto.nl/tutorial/blendingTutorial01a.pdf

Wilba's Frequently Asked (beginners) Questions and answers
http://snipurl.com/RebelFAQ
 
I used Adobe CS3 Extended for quite a while to edit my photos from my D70s.

I recently bought a D7000. I shot some RAW files. Guess what? CS3 no linger reads RAW files from the D7000. I had to upgrade to CS5 Extended.

So, if you own the D7k and think you can save money by using the old Adobe, guess agian. Unless, of course you want to shoot all JPEG files.
 
I also got the design premium.

You're right, these programs are very feature rich, wich will cost alot of time investment to learn them all.
imqqmi said:
Alternative Energy Photography said:
Toermalijn said:
Good suggestion!

...if you allready own photoshop cs5 or 5.5 then the need for Lightroom is not that urgent...lets face it, photoshop is also a design tool that can do more then lightroom. Lightroom is a photographers tool, wich has some limitations.

It's anice photographers tool, if you do more then that, photoshop is the more powerful and better choice.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the great information.

After I practice with the included Nikon software, I will revisit this and decide between lightroom and CS 5.5.

One clarification needed. You mention "Photoshop CS 5 or 5.5" a couple of times. Do you mean one of the suites, or just photoshop by itself? If referring to a suite, which one are you thinking of?
Click to expand...
What other apps do you think you'd need? Premiere Pro? Illustrator? Dreamweaver? Indesign?

If you're just looking for a good to great photo editor I'd stick with Photoshop (CS5 or elements) and/or lightroom. I use illustrator and dreamweaver to design and build websites, and I use indesign to design brochures and newsletters for print. If you're new to all these apps I'd start with photoshop as the others are almost as complex and feature rich as photoshop and need lots of time to learn how to use them properly.

I use design premium and use almost all the apps but I feel stretched as there are specialists in every single app that's in the suite. If you'll be using all of them expect to be a master of maybe one or two of them and a jack of all trades of the rest only scratching the surface. It all depends on what you'll be doing with them of course. If it's for business or hobby use can make a huge difference.
--
Kind regards
Imqqmi



http://www.pbase.com/imqqmi

The DSLR jargon cheatsheet:
http://www.jmbfoto.nl/dslrcheatsheet.pdf

Sunset blending tutorial:
http://www.jmbfoto.nl/tutorial/blendingTutorial01a.pdf

Wilba's Frequently Asked (beginners) Questions and answers
http://snipurl.com/RebelFAQ
Click to expand...
 
There is a trick though!

If you want acr to read new unsupported camera raw files, just convert the native raw files to DNG. Photoshop can always read DNG files, included unsupported raw formats for acr!
Dave Sherman said:
I used Adobe CS3 Extended for quite a while to edit my photos from my D70s.

I recently bought a D7000. I shot some RAW files. Guess what? CS3 no linger reads RAW files from the D7000. I had to upgrade to CS5 Extended.

So, if you own the D7k and think you can save money by using the old Adobe, guess agian. Unless, of course you want to shoot all JPEG files.
Click to expand...
 
I would start with PSE or PSCS5 (or CS6 if its out by then) after you've explored your Nikon software. You may find that Photoshop is all you'll ever need (as I did). Also once you move up to a suite Adobe won't let you downgrade to just PS by itself at the upgrade price unless they have changed their policy. So I never wanted to get stuck having too upgrade a suite just to get PS. Unless you are a pro and/or do other things like web design, commercial printing, etc. PS is all you may ever need?
Murry
--
http://www.grigsbys.smugmug.com/
 
You don't have any children in K5-12th grade or in college do you? For those that do, you can generally quality for the Student/Teacher editions of Adobe products. The software is exactly the same as the full versions, but the cost is greatly reduced.

Lightroom goes for about $90 while CS5 Extended goes for about $190.

Certainly it is a great deal for those that qualify.
 
In my opinion you didn't mention this best bang for the buck, which by far is Apple aperture. It's inexplicably cheap in App store and a very good piece of software both for storage ("logistically", in a workflow sort of way) and for editing, retouching a.s.o.

Yours
Claus
 
Toermalijn said:
But i feel that if you allready own photoshop cs5 or 5.5 then the need for Lightroom is not that urgent...lets face it, photoshop is also a design tool that can do more then lightroom. Lightroom is a photographers tool, wich has some limitations.
Click to expand...
I respect your opinion. But in my case, it was different.

I've been a long-time user of Photoshop, and the entire Creative Suite. When I bought Lightroom, I didn't really understand it, and kept using Photoshop. But I saw a video with Jeff Schewe and Michael Reichmann and discovered I misunderstood how to use Lightroom. Now LR is my primary editor, and I rarely use Photoshop. I've got the entire CS5 Master Collection and fair number of plug-ins (Topaz, Nik, OnOne, etc), so I have a good choice of tools. For me, LR is far more productive than PS. I can edit 98% of my photos in LR alone. But I think each of us has to decide for himself.

I hated the idea of importing photos into a database, but once done, LR begins to show its power. LR is a production and management system, not just an editing tool. At first, all you can see is its limitations compared to an editor, while LR's true advantages remain undiscovered. You have to live with it for a while, and once you do you won't go back. At least I didn't.

--
Ken Elliott
Equipment in profile.
 
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