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Al B

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I am aware that there has been many user comments with regards to sharpness on the Nikon D100. The majority of my shots have been in the jpeg mode L resolution Super Fine mode. This yields a image of approximately 3 megs.

I have left the sharpening on the camera to "auto" for the majority of the pictures that I have taken.

I am currently using the Nikor 24-85 D lense F2.8.

Should I be changing the defaul on sharpening to "normal?"

What have other users experiences or preferred?

Comments.

Al
 
Thank you for the advise.

I have just recently purchased the camera and could benefit from making minor changes to the critical defualt settings that would make the most difference.

I have not yet purchased the NC3 software because I thought it was stictly for editing RAW images. As per your comments it sounds like it can also edit jpeg files as well.

Enjoying my camera.
Al
Illegal said:
Hello Al B ,

leaf it in "normal" you can change it latter or in NC3 or in PH.

regards Stefan

http://www.pbase.com/magus/first_d100_shots
Click to expand...
 
If I change my setting on sharpness to normal from "auto" should I also change the contrast to normal?

Comments appreciated.

Al
Al B said:
I am aware that there has been many user comments with regards to
sharpness on the Nikon D100. The majority of my shots have been in
the jpeg mode L resolution Super Fine mode. This yields a image of
approximately 3 megs.

I have left the sharpening on the camera to "auto" for the majority
of the pictures that I have taken.

I am currently using the Nikor 24-85 D lense F2.8.

Should I be changing the defaul on sharpening to "normal?"

What have other users experiences or preferred?

Comments.

Al
Click to expand...
 
I shoot with Low or None, depending upon my mood when shooting JPG.

I don't sharpen until I'm about to print or create a web file since it should be the last step before creating your output file to avoid amplifying the sharpening noise.
 
JPG is designed to compress images for direct viewing without post-processing. Importantly, it is not optimized to compress the subtle contours that speak volumes to a sharpening routine like USM, and important details are lost if you do not sharpening whatever in-camera.

I still recommend that you post-process for the bulk of the sharpening you seek, at the last step. But not with sharpening set to none, unless you are dealing with a TIF image, or NEF that you output to TIF, or open/convert directly into photoshop.

Compare sharpening "none" to sharpening "low" after post-processing, and it becomes immediately apparent that you lose detail (and sharpening potential) in the former case.
Chris Patterson said:
I shoot with Low or None, depending upon my mood when shooting JPG.

I don't sharpen until I'm about to print or create a web file since
it should be the last step before creating your output file to
avoid amplifying the sharpening noise.
Click to expand...
 
NEFrodite,
Thank you for your comments.

I am obviously a new user that would like to get the most out of my camera as I stumble along trying to learn the proper techniques.

Initially have decided to experiment with Jpeg L, fine mode. I currently use ULead PhotoImpact 8 to edit my images.

So if I understand you correctly you are recommending that I utilize some sharpening in post processing and then apply sharpening in PI8 as a final step.

So as a default for sharpening the setting you are recommending is low as opposed to high or normal. I am using a type "D" lense and I am not sure if I left it on "auto" sharpening the default what amount of sharpening it would apply and if the pictures could be better improved before final editing by selecting a better setting. Also for example if I decide to change my default sharpening to low would if also make sense to change the contrast to the same setting?

Again I appreciate any comments this forum could supply.

Al B
NEFrodite said:
I still recommend that you post-process for the bulk of the
sharpening you seek, at the last step. But not with sharpening set
to none, unless you are dealing with a TIF image, or NEF that you
output to TIF, or open/convert directly into photoshop.

Compare sharpening "none" to sharpening "low" after
post-processing, and it becomes immediately apparent that you lose
detail (and sharpening potential) in the former case.
Chris Patterson said:
I shoot with Low or None, depending upon my mood when shooting JPG.

I don't sharpen until I'm about to print or create a web file since
it should be the last step before creating your output file to
avoid amplifying the sharpening noise.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I wasn't entirely clear.

Some (Low or Normal), not None in-camera. I wouldn't use High. Auto is still a gray area IMHO.

Then post-processing, including all other steps/manipulations and finally, one more round of sharpening (out-of-camera) as the last step.

I don't think that contrast settings are necessarily connected with sharpening issues.
Al B said:
So as a default for sharpening the setting you are recommending is
low as opposed to high or normal. I am using a type "D" lense and
I am not sure if I left it on "auto" sharpening the default what
amount of sharpening it would apply and if the pictures could be
better improved before final editing by selecting a better setting.
Also for example if I decide to change my default sharpening to low
would if also make sense to change the contrast to the same setting?

Again I appreciate any comments this forum could supply.

Al B
NEFrodite said:
I still recommend that you post-process for the bulk of the
sharpening you seek, at the last step. But not with sharpening set
to none, unless you are dealing with a TIF image, or NEF that you
output to TIF, or open/convert directly into photoshop.

Compare sharpening "none" to sharpening "low" after
post-processing, and it becomes immediately apparent that you lose
detail (and sharpening potential) in the former case.
Chris Patterson said:
I shoot with Low or None, depending upon my mood when shooting JPG.

I don't sharpen until I'm about to print or create a web file since
it should be the last step before creating your output file to
avoid amplifying the sharpening noise.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Having never shot jpeg's in my D100, I was astonished at the results of this somewhat non-scientific test. I took 4 consecutive photos(Large-Fine) and worked through the None, Low, Normal & High settings of sharpening in the camera menu. Then I took the results and made 1:1 crops. They were all sharpened in PS7 at settings of 50> .5> 4 till first signs of oversharpening occurred and then backed down 1 step from that and saved. The first one is NONE with 8 passes, the second is LOW with 6 passes, the third is NORMAL with 3 passes and the fourth is HIGH with 1 pass.



This was quite dramatic to me so I took photos of something more complex and resized them to 1000 x 665 assuming they would be a better example. The results are here if you want to see.
http://www.pbase.com/wicopy/test_2

It seems obvious to my eye that if someone chooses to shoot jpeg's, setting the in-camera sharpening to HIGH yields the best results(no matter how you sharpen in post-processing). If you compare them side-by-side in PS, you are apt to agree. I neglected to include AUTO setting in my test. Maybe that would throw a wrench into it, but I doubt it. Tomorrow if it is not snowing, I'm going to make the same test on landscapes and see if I come up with the same results.......really not holding my breath on that one.

Craig
 
Craig,
Wow!
Thanks for taking the time to produce these images.
It also seems obvious to me that "high" seems to produce the best results.

I did a quick comparison similar to yours but I included the "auto" setting as well. My shots were taken inside with flash and the results were not as obvious as yours.

If you get the chance tomorrow I will look for your landscape results. It would be great if you could also include an auto example.

Appreciate the effort.

Al B
Craig Robinson said:
Having never shot jpeg's in my D100, I was astonished at the
results of this somewhat non-scientific test. I took 4 consecutive
photos(Large-Fine) and worked through the None, Low, Normal & High
settings of sharpening in the camera menu. Then I took the results
and made 1:1 crops. They were all sharpened in PS7 at settings of
50> .5> 4 till first signs of oversharpening occurred and then backed
down 1 step from that and saved. The first one is NONE with 8
passes, the second is LOW with 6 passes, the third is NORMAL with 3
passes and the fourth is HIGH with 1 pass.



This was quite dramatic to me so I took photos of something more
complex and resized them to 1000 x 665 assuming they would be a
better example. The results are here if you want to see.
http://www.pbase.com/wicopy/test_2

It seems obvious to my eye that if someone chooses to shoot jpeg's,
setting the in-camera sharpening to HIGH yields the best results(no
matter how you sharpen in post-processing). If you compare them
side-by-side in PS, you are apt to agree. I neglected to include
AUTO setting in my test. Maybe that would throw a wrench into it,
but I doubt it. Tomorrow if it is not snowing, I'm going to make
the same test on landscapes and see if I come up with the same
results.......really not holding my breath on that one.

Craig
Click to expand...
 
Could you post the unprocessed crops? I'd like to try some alternative parameters which I believe could draw better quality out of your low and normal sharpening cases.

One problem with your approach is the repeated application of a fixed post-processing sharpening parameter.

There are serious haloing problems in your high sharpening case, which should be more apparent with your landscape photographs.
Craig Robinson said:
Having never shot jpeg's in my D100, I was astonished at the
results of this somewhat non-scientific test. I took 4 consecutive
photos(Large-Fine) and worked through the None, Low, Normal & High
settings of sharpening in the camera menu. Then I took the results
and made 1:1 crops. They were all sharpened in PS7 at settings of
50> .5> 4 till first signs of oversharpening occurred and then backed
down 1 step from that and saved. The first one is NONE with 8
passes, the second is LOW with 6 passes, the third is NORMAL with 3
passes and the fourth is HIGH with 1 pass.



This was quite dramatic to me so I took photos of something more
complex and resized them to 1000 x 665 assuming they would be a
better example. The results are here if you want to see.
http://www.pbase.com/wicopy/test_2

It seems obvious to my eye that if someone chooses to shoot jpeg's,
setting the in-camera sharpening to HIGH yields the best results(no
matter how you sharpen in post-processing). If you compare them
side-by-side in PS, you are apt to agree. I neglected to include
AUTO setting in my test. Maybe that would throw a wrench into it,
but I doubt it. Tomorrow if it is not snowing, I'm going to make
the same test on landscapes and see if I come up with the same
results.......really not holding my breath on that one.

Craig
Click to expand...
 
I'll always use Normal after my tests... I personally didn't like the noticable loss of detail in landscape shots from using none or low. As for High, it's alright but the images can tend to look a bit too sharp on the edges and auto seems to provide excellent results but also presents an issue with Noise on some of my pictures.

--
http://www.pbase.com/elterrible
Al B said:
I am aware that there has been many user comments with regards to
sharpness on the Nikon D100. The majority of my shots have been in
the jpeg mode L resolution Super Fine mode. This yields a image of
approximately 3 megs.

I have left the sharpening on the camera to "auto" for the majority
of the pictures that I have taken.

I am currently using the Nikor 24-85 D lense F2.8.

Should I be changing the defaul on sharpening to "normal?"

What have other users experiences or preferred?

Comments.

Al
Click to expand...
 
Interesting test. I have one comment and one question.

Although the HIGH image makes the lettering much sharper than the others, the sharpening appears to have made a mess out of the orange background. I am anxious to see your landscapes.

When you referr to "passes," do you mean that you sent the image through the sharpening process that number of times?

My D100 is now three days old. I have a feeling that this thread is going to be very helpful.
Craig Robinson said:
Having never shot jpeg's in my D100, I was astonished at the
results of this somewhat non-scientific test. I took 4 consecutive
photos(Large-Fine) and worked through the None, Low, Normal & High
settings of sharpening in the camera menu. Then I took the results
and made 1:1 crops. They were all sharpened in PS7 at settings of
50> .5> 4 till first signs of oversharpening occurred and then backed
down 1 step from that and saved. The first one is NONE with 8
passes, the second is LOW with 6 passes, the third is NORMAL with 3
passes and the fourth is HIGH with 1 pass.



This was quite dramatic to me so I took photos of something more
complex and resized them to 1000 x 665 assuming they would be a
better example. The results are here if you want to see.
http://www.pbase.com/wicopy/test_2

It seems obvious to my eye that if someone chooses to shoot jpeg's,
setting the in-camera sharpening to HIGH yields the best results(no
matter how you sharpen in post-processing). If you compare them
side-by-side in PS, you are apt to agree. I neglected to include
AUTO setting in my test. Maybe that would throw a wrench into it,
but I doubt it. Tomorrow if it is not snowing, I'm going to make
the same test on landscapes and see if I come up with the same
results.......really not holding my breath on that one.

Craig
Click to expand...
 
NEFrodite said:
Could you post the unprocessed crops? I'd like to try some
alternative parameters which I believe could draw better quality
out of your low and normal sharpening cases.
Click to expand...
These are untouched from the camera other than being cropped 1:1

Please be sure to post the results of your efforts so everyone can see. I know firsthand when shooting RAW images, a D100 should have in-camera sharpening set at LOW for optimum image quality. But from the experimenting I've done with jpeg's, this doesn't hold up. Seems more sharpening in-camera yields a better image in the end.



Craig
 
Jerry, I'm anxious to see what landscape comparisons will look like too. Did you check out the other samples I posted on Pbase? There is no question in my mind that the photo of the D1h that was taken with a setting of HIGH is a better image than the other three. Just look at the rim of the viewfinder rubber rim. It is more distinct in that photo. The others could not be sharpened any more without introducing artifacts.

Yes, I applied the slight USM many times in a row rather than 1 or 2 stronger ones. Experiment with your new camera and find out just what the best combination is for you. I almost exclusively shoot RAW images in all my cameras and adjust and sharpen in Capture 3 before opening in PS. Maybe if I'd used Capture USM in this test, I might have come up with different results. I'll check it out and see. I'm sure you'll enjoy your new camera once you conquer all it's idiosyncrasies.

Craig
 
Jerry Monroe said:
Interesting test. I have one comment and one question.

Although the HIGH image makes the lettering much sharper than the
others, the sharpening appears to have made a mess out of the
orange background.
Click to expand...
The photos are macro-shots of an envelope, so I think on the HIGH sharpening photo, you are seeing the texture of the paper. I just did some sharpening of the originals in Capture and the results are closer together than they were in the first test, but the in-camera HIGH photo still beats the other three. I'll be interested to see if NEFrodite can get the LOW setting to beat it without introducing artifacts.

Craig
 
The problem with in camera sharpening is the increase of the noise. Indeed, in this case the internal USM uses an adjustment of threshold to 0, whereas with NC3 one can use a threshold of 3 or 4 .
Image on left side:in camera sharpening :normal.
Image of right-hand side, in camera sharpening: none, but NC3 USM:80
compare the noise in the sky


Pete Perry said:
--
http://www.pbase.com/elterrible
Al B said:
I am aware that there has been many user comments with regards to
sharpness on the Nikon D100. The majority of my shots have been in
the jpeg mode L resolution Super Fine mode. This yields a image of
approximately 3 megs.

I have left the sharpening on the camera to "auto" for the majority
of the pictures that I have taken.

I am currently using the Nikor 24-85 D lense F2.8.

Should I be changing the defaul on sharpening to "normal?"

What have other users experiences or preferred?

Comments.

Al
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
for your reference : http://www.pbase.com/oshekliu/d100_sharpness

my lens is 24-80G use NEF, choose auto, normal & high, compress it in jpg with 100% quality using Acdsee, crop it up & post! Hope can give you a bit of insight.
Al B said:
I am aware that there has been many user comments with regards to
sharpness on the Nikon D100. The majority of my shots have been in
the jpeg mode L resolution Super Fine mode. This yields a image of
approximately 3 megs.

I have left the sharpening on the camera to "auto" for the majority
of the pictures that I have taken.

I am currently using the Nikor 24-85 D lense F2.8.

Should I be changing the defaul on sharpening to "normal?"

What have other users experiences or preferred?

Comments.

Al
Click to expand...
--
When there is will, there is way.
So Keep Shoting!
 
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