Hot pixel on S70 :-(

I've decided to take the lens cap on test for my S70
and noticed a "hot-pixel" present. Here are the exposure
times and the results:

After 30 minutes of use ( underbelly of camera is quite warm
to the touch ):

1/15 sec .... hot pixel plainly visible
1/30 sec .... pixel grayish and still affecting others around it
1/60 sec .... pixel almost gone but still there
1/90 sec .... hot pixel gone

After 0 minutes of use ( camera is cold to the touch- test
done first thing in the morning after a whole nite of rest ):

1 sec .... absolute blackness except for the bright hot pixel
....
1/30 sec .... hot pixel down to a faintly gray color not
affecting pixels around it
1/60 sec .... hot pixel gone

So what's do you guys think? The way I see it I have
three choices:

a.) keep the camera and live with it.
b.) return the camera to Provantage where I bought it ( I
have 1 week left before my 1 month warranty is over )
c.) have it fixed at a Sony service centre in my area.
Chances are they'll simply map the pixel out in software
instead of changing the CCD.

I really luv this little camera and I think I could live with
choice c.)....3.3M minus one pixel ain't that bad. no?.
Or, is the camera really defective and should be replaced
at all costs? Remember I have only one dreaded pixel
showing at one 1sec exposure!.

thx for any advice

Frank C.

hi frank,

don't know about yr methodology, but i tested mine by covering the lens with a black cushion? does it work? anyway tried with exp.time of 2,4 and 8 sec. result: saw nothing but a totally black screen on PSP5 even after magnifying it up to 16 times.
anyway, my comment n suggestion as fllws:

Frank C said:

I've decided to take the lens cap on test for my S70
and noticed a "hot-pixel" present. Here are the exposure
times and the results:

After 30 minutes of use ( underbelly of camera is quite warm
to the touch ):

Click to expand...

no problems with warm underbelly, still comfortable to touch.

Member said:

1/15 sec .... hot pixel plainly visible
1/30 sec .... pixel grayish and still affecting others around it
1/60 sec .... pixel almost gone but still there
1/90 sec .... hot pixel gone

After 0 minutes of use ( camera is cold to the touch- test
done first thing in the morning after a whole nite of rest ):

1 sec .... absolute blackness except for the bright hot pixel
....
1/30 sec .... hot pixel down to a faintly gray color not
affecting pixels around it
1/60 sec .... hot pixel gone

So what's do you guys think? The way I see it I have
three choices:

a.) keep the camera and live with it.
b.) return the camera to Provantage where I bought it ( I
have 1 week left before my 1 month warranty is over )

Click to expand...

suggest, you return it asap for a replacement.
dw

Member said:

c.) have it fixed at a Sony service centre in my area.
Chances are they'll simply map the pixel out in software
instead of changing the CCD.

I really luv this little camera and I think I could live with
choice c.)....3.3M minus one pixel ain't that bad. no?.
Or, is the camera really defective and should be replaced
at all costs? Remember I have only one dreaded pixel
showing at one 1sec exposure!.

thx for any advice

Frank C.

Click to expand...

Hi there Frank -

What you describe is not what is typically considered a "hot pixel" in many opinions of the subject.

What you are seeing is normal behavior of the CCD sensitivity under varying conditions which you tested. As you can see, temperature is a factor. The warmer the ambient temperature and camera, the more you will see misreads such as you did. Yours do not appear prominently until "relatively" abnormal exposure time is achieved. These also appear in the black cap tests; do you see the same in ordinary photos? If not, then in practical terms I would not worry about it.

So my guess is that Sony will not really see this as "out of specification". You would likely see neither a firmware filter (extremely unlikely), nor would you see a replacement CCD (as they would say there is nothing wrong with it). The best you could hope for is that Provantage would exchange it. But I'm not sure if this is worth the hassle, to be honest.

Normal photo shooting is what really matters. If you see the problem there, too, then I'd definitely return it as personal satisfaction in the real world is what this is about. Once you see the pixel, you'll ALWAYS see it in your own mind.

But it sounds as if the camera is performing normally.

Frank C said:

I've decided to take the lens cap on test for my S70
and noticed a "hot-pixel" present. Here are the exposure
times and the results:

After 30 minutes of use ( underbelly of camera is quite warm
to the touch ):

1/15 sec .... hot pixel plainly visible
1/30 sec .... pixel grayish and still affecting others around it
1/60 sec .... pixel almost gone but still there
1/90 sec .... hot pixel gone

After 0 minutes of use ( camera is cold to the touch- test
done first thing in the morning after a whole nite of rest ):

1 sec .... absolute blackness except for the bright hot pixel
....
1/30 sec .... hot pixel down to a faintly gray color not
affecting pixels around it
1/60 sec .... hot pixel gone

So what's do you guys think? The way I see it I have
three choices:

a.) keep the camera and live with it.
b.) return the camera to Provantage where I bought it ( I
have 1 week left before my 1 month warranty is over )
c.) have it fixed at a Sony service centre in my area.
Chances are they'll simply map the pixel out in software
instead of changing the CCD.

I really luv this little camera and I think I could live with
choice c.)....3.3M minus one pixel ain't that bad. no?.
Or, is the camera really defective and should be replaced
at all costs? Remember I have only one dreaded pixel
showing at one 1sec exposure!.

thx for any advice

Frank C.

Click to expand...

Just as an experiment, I decided to take some lens cap exposures with my own camera. I took three shots at 8 sec, 2 sec and 1 sec. I will almost never need these modes personally, but I was curious to see what would happen.

I shot the 8 sec shot first because I wanted to see which areas of the CCD might present the most problems. I picked a zone at random for this screenshot, just selecting an area at 100% that my eye was drawn to by the distracting noise and bright pixels. I then used EXIF-IV to magnify the image 200%, and I captured the same exact zone in the other two long exposures for a comparison. Here is what I got:

Frank C said:

I've decided to take the lens cap on test for my S70
and noticed a "hot-pixel" present. Here are the exposure
times and the results:

After 30 minutes of use ( underbelly of camera is quite warm
to the touch ):

1/15 sec .... hot pixel plainly visible
1/30 sec .... pixel grayish and still affecting others around it
1/60 sec .... pixel almost gone but still there
1/90 sec .... hot pixel gone

After 0 minutes of use ( camera is cold to the touch- test
done first thing in the morning after a whole nite of rest ):

1 sec .... absolute blackness except for the bright hot pixel
....
1/30 sec .... hot pixel down to a faintly gray color not
affecting pixels around it
1/60 sec .... hot pixel gone

So what's do you guys think? The way I see it I have
three choices:

a.) keep the camera and live with it.
b.) return the camera to Provantage where I bought it ( I
have 1 week left before my 1 month warranty is over )
c.) have it fixed at a Sony service centre in my area.
Chances are they'll simply map the pixel out in software
instead of changing the CCD.

I really luv this little camera and I think I could live with
choice c.)....3.3M minus one pixel ain't that bad. no?.
Or, is the camera really defective and should be replaced
at all costs? Remember I have only one dreaded pixel
showing at one 1sec exposure!.

thx for any advice

Frank C.

Click to expand...

I also tried a sort of reverse experiment of my above lens cap tests.

I took a shot with my F505V at 1 second. I located what appeared to me to be the area that showed the most prominent zone of visible pixels. I then captured the exact same area in the 2 sec and 8 sec exposures.

Curiously, when done this way, the 8 sec exposure does not look nearly as bad as when you search that same exposure for its worst zones of noise. The clips below are NOT the same as the one I original posted. This is a fresh set of screen captures.

I guess I'll be keeping my F505V. It's doing well with this thing:

Ulysses said:

Just as an experiment, I decided to take some lens cap exposures with my
own camera. I took three shots at 8 sec, 2 sec and 1 sec. I will almost
never need these modes personally, but I was curious to see what would
happen.

I shot the 8 sec shot first because I wanted to see which areas of the
CCD might present the most problems. I picked a zone at random for this
screenshot, just selecting an area at 100% that my eye was drawn to by
the distracting noise and bright pixels. I then used EXIF-IV to magnify
the image 200%, and I captured the same exact zone in the other two long
exposures for a comparison. Here is what I got:
http:

Click to expand...

Hi Frank,
Here is what I would do.

1. Look at some of the shots you have taken with the S70, indoor,outdoor and various lighting conditions and exposures.

2. Zoom in on the "hot-pixel" area and see how far in you need to zoom to see the defect.

3. Decide for yourself if this is really a noticable problem with you camera under normal operation.

What your describing sounds like noise in the CCD. I have some experience in the past with using CCDs for astrophotography, which requires long exposures in low light conditions. The warmer the CCD gets the more noise it produces. We had to use a liquid nitrogen cooling unit to keep the CCD cool enough for 10-15 Min. exposures otherwise the night sky started getting washed out by the pixels that charged up.

I don't think Sony will cover it unless it's pretty obvious in several photos.

Provantage may replace it for you, but the one they send may have the same or a different problem or maybe even worse.

I've had my S70 for 3 weeks and I love it! I'll try this on my camera tonight and let you know the results if you like.

Jack

Frank C said:

I've decided to take the lens cap on test for my S70
and noticed a "hot-pixel" present. Here are the exposure
times and the results:

After 30 minutes of use ( underbelly of camera is quite warm
to the touch ):

1/15 sec .... hot pixel plainly visible
1/30 sec .... pixel grayish and still affecting others around it
1/60 sec .... pixel almost gone but still there
1/90 sec .... hot pixel gone

After 0 minutes of use ( camera is cold to the touch- test
done first thing in the morning after a whole nite of rest ):

1 sec .... absolute blackness except for the bright hot pixel
....
1/30 sec .... hot pixel down to a faintly gray color not
affecting pixels around it
1/60 sec .... hot pixel gone

So what's do you guys think? The way I see it I have
three choices:

a.) keep the camera and live with it.
b.) return the camera to Provantage where I bought it ( I
have 1 week left before my 1 month warranty is over )
c.) have it fixed at a Sony service centre in my area.
Chances are they'll simply map the pixel out in software
instead of changing the CCD.

I really luv this little camera and I think I could live with
choice c.)....3.3M minus one pixel ain't that bad. no?.
Or, is the camera really defective and should be replaced
at all costs? Remember I have only one dreaded pixel
showing at one 1sec exposure!.

thx for any advice

Frank C.

Click to expand...

Hey there, Jack -

I'm in agreement with you on all your suggestions. Notably:

Member said:

2. Zoom in on the "hot-pixel" area and see how far in you need to zoom to
see the defect.

Click to expand...

Mike Kowalski's EXIF Image Viewer makes this very easy. You can zoom in on a problem spot in a picture, say up to 300%. Then you go to a regular picture. When viewed, it will stay zoomed in by the same amount and will be centered upon the same location in that second picture, assuming we are using the same resolution fore each comparison photo.

Member said:

I have some experience
in the past with using CCDs for astrophotography, which requires long
exposures in low light conditions. The warmer the CCD gets the more noise
it produces. We had to use a liquid nitrogen cooling unit to keep the CCD
cool enough for 10-15 Min.

Click to expand...

Not for the faint of heart. A real journey. Never tried it, but I wanted to.

OUFFFF! I did a lot today!

First of, PROVANTAGE is willing to take the camera back
however seeing as though this is an international order
( I live in Canada ) shipping costs will be high for me ie: > $60
US + restocking fees, if any. This is where my research before
purchasing the camera pays off now...it turns out SONY Canada
will honor the US warranty on a no-charge basis. I checked
this thoroughly before ordering through the US based
PROVANTAGE as this was absolutely critical to me buying
out-of-country. You have to remember that in Canada the s70
sells for > $1000US ....:-(

In any case I managed to get a SONY tech. rep. on the phone
from a large service centre in my area (Montreal). After explaining
him my debacles, he told me I probably have a defective
CCD that needs replacing. He explained that any noise at

Member said:

1/2sec exposures is abnormal. Perfectly logical to me. This is a

Click to expand...

standard more or less endorsed in the numerous threads
I've read over at the Nikon forum as well as some internet sites
re: http://www.globaldialog.com/~biggers/html/hot_pixels.html

So what's the conclusion of all this?

a.) I don't think it's fair I have a camera that shows a hot pixel
at a relatively quick shutter speed ( 1/60sec ) no matter
how pale it is.
b.) I will not return the camera to PROVANTAGE as this will
negate the savings I made going the US route.
c.) I brought the camera to SONY Canada service centre
and after reviewing my JPEGS, they agreed whole-heartedly
to replace the CCD at no expense to me.

I'll keep you guys posted how things turn out.

Cheers

Frank C.

Frank C said:

I've decided to take the lens cap on test for my S70
and noticed a "hot-pixel" present. Here are the exposure
times and the results:

After 30 minutes of use ( underbelly of camera is quite warm
to the touch ):

1/15 sec .... hot pixel plainly visible
1/30 sec .... pixel grayish and still affecting others around it
1/60 sec .... pixel almost gone but still there
1/90 sec .... hot pixel gone

After 0 minutes of use ( camera is cold to the touch- test
done first thing in the morning after a whole nite of rest ):

1 sec .... absolute blackness except for the bright hot pixel
....
1/30 sec .... hot pixel down to a faintly gray color not
affecting pixels around it
1/60 sec .... hot pixel gone

So what's do you guys think? The way I see it I have
three choices:

a.) keep the camera and live with it.
b.) return the camera to Provantage where I bought it ( I
have 1 week left before my 1 month warranty is over )
c.) have it fixed at a Sony service centre in my area.
Chances are they'll simply map the pixel out in software
instead of changing the CCD.

I really luv this little camera and I think I could live with
choice c.)....3.3M minus one pixel ain't that bad. no?.
Or, is the camera really defective and should be replaced
at all costs? Remember I have only one dreaded pixel
showing at one 1sec exposure!.

thx for any advice

Frank C.

Click to expand...

Frank -

Glad you got an official answer. Most of all, I hope you're happy with the replacement/repair that they send back.

Good job.

Frank C said:

So what's the conclusion of all this?

a.) I don't think it's fair I have a camera that shows a hot pixel
at a relatively quick shutter speed ( 1/60sec ) no matter
how pale it is.
b.) I will not return the camera to PROVANTAGE as this will
negate the savings I made going the US route.
c.) I brought the camera to SONY Canada service centre
and after reviewing my JPEGS, they agreed whole-heartedly
to replace the CCD at no expense to me.

Click to expand...

ooops! that should read 1/2sec

my humble apologies

FC

Member said:

CCD that needs replacing. He explained that any noise at

Member said:

1/2sec exposures is abnormal. Perfectly logical to me. This is a

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Ulysses said:

Frank -

Glad you got an official answer. Most of all, I hope you're happy with
the replacement/repair that they send back.

Click to expand...

I'm sure I'll get a good CCD Maybe the first one came from the
bin destined for NIKONs rather than for SONYs.. hehe. Little screw up
at the factory

I just hope that the guy that handles my baby will take good care of
it. I miss it already!

.... maybe he'll place the CCD module a bit too far back, or a bit
too tight and it' ll blur up the images ARGHHHHHH! ...this is going to
be a real tortuous week!. How am I going to get any sleep????
Pleez don't tell me to go and take it back... cuz' I probably will!

R
E
L
A
X

ahhhh... now that's better

Frank C.

Frank C. said:

Ulysses said:

Frank -

Glad you got an official answer. Most of all, I hope you're happy with
the replacement/repair that they send back.

Click to expand...

I'm sure I'll get a good CCD Maybe the first one came from the
bin destined for NIKONs rather than for SONYs..

Click to expand...

Well, a conspiracy theory has been that SONY sends bad ones to NIKON. So the first one from the NIKON bin is likely to be a bad one ;-)

Member said:

I just hope that the guy that handles my baby will take good care of
it. I miss it already!

.... maybe he'll place the CCD module a bit too far back, or a bit
too tight and it' ll blur up the images ARGHHHHHH! ...this is going to
be a real tortuous week!. How am I going to get any sleep????
Pleez don't tell me to go and take it back... cuz' I probably will!

R
E
L
A
X

ahhhh... now that's better

Frank C.

Click to expand...

Frank C. said:

Ulysses said:

Frank -

Glad you got an official answer. Most of all, I hope you're happy with
the replacement/repair that they send back.

Click to expand...

I'm sure I'll get a good CCD Maybe the first one came from the
bin destined for NIKONs rather than for SONYs.. hehe. Little screw up
at the factory

I just hope that the guy that handles my baby will take good care of
it. I miss it already!

.... maybe he'll place the CCD module a bit too far back, or a bit
too tight and it' ll blur up the images ARGHHHHHH! ...this is going to
be a real tortuous week!. How am I going to get any sleep????
Pleez don't tell me to go and take it back... cuz' I probably will!

Click to expand...

don't worry, frank, when your camera is returned to you, switch it on, put it close to your ears in a quiet enviroment, press the shutter halfway, if it plays the X-files tune, you're in trouble, everything else is OK.
dw.

Member said:

R
E
L
A
X

ahhhh... now that's better

Frank C.

Click to expand...