henryp
Veteran Member
I freely concede we're busy on Sundays and pre-Christmas and right after a holiday closing but I don't think many customers ever had to wait an hour to speak with a sales associate.
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Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video
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Tthe Brick & mortar camera shop of yesteryear
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Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video
CharlieDIY
Veteran Member
Say what? Both costs and "following" were things I never found. I bought my first Canon F1 in '71 or '72 for a bit under $500, but it cost me $3000 for a new car that year. The camera store went out of business a few years later. AFAIK, the car dealer is still rolling along.
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Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com
jon404
Senior Member
When we visit Santa Barbara, I used to hang out at Russ' Camera on State Street while my wife shopped nearby. Bought two cameras there, plus some odds and ends. Paid more than the internet, but felt it was worth it... I was able to talk with older guys who knew a lot more than I did, and were more than willing to share tips and advice.
On our last trip, the store was gone. Sorry, that's incorrect... it's a clothes store now.
On our last trip, the store was gone. Sorry, that's incorrect... it's a clothes store now.
One thing that kills camera stores is bad photofinishing. One of the large chain camera stores had a location near my house 5 years ago and I sent some photos to them for printing. Nothing tricky, just decently color balanced sRGB JPG files like I'd send to Costco and get good results, but this camera store had a better location. The results at the camera store were terrible. Complete lack of color balance. I showed them the results and asked for a reprint. So they reprinted them and they were still bad. So I gave up on them. There was a Walgreens even closer to the house that would do a better job and so I sent my small jobs to Walgreens.
Strangely enough that camera store and much of the entire chain closed down a few years later.
Strangely enough that camera store and much of the entire chain closed down a few years later.
MusicDoctorDJ
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I'm thinking that if you find Costco and Walgreens colors better than most other experienced photo labs . . .
Then you must be colorblind!
Or you photoshopped your images on an unbalanced computer monitor at home that somehow matches Costco's and Walgreens well known off-color printing!
I just don't buy your story . . . sorry!
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J. D.
Colorado
- "If your insurance company tells you that you don't need a lawyer . . . hire a lawyer!"
I'll leave my entire post intact so you can point out to me where I said "most other experienced color labs". AFAIK I neither said or implied that. I said I had one local camera store with an in-house mini-lab that couldn't match the quality of Walgreens or Costco. And that store failed and I'm not surprised since they couldn't get very basic print processing right on 2 tries.I'm thinking that if you find Costco and Walgreens colors better than most other experienced photo labs . . .
Then you must be colorblind!
Or you photoshopped your images on an unbalanced computer monitor at home that somehow matches Costco's and Walgreens well known off-color printing!
I just don't buy your story . . . sorry!
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J. D.
Colorado
- "If your insurance company tells you that you don't need a lawyer . . . hire a lawyer!"
And no, there was nothing wrong with my monitor or post-processing. I really couldn't believe how awful they were myself but I saw it with my own eyes.
E
Ernest M Aquilio
Guest
For the OT, I agree that the B&M stores are taking a big big hit. I have, and currently work for cameras shops (I dont care to disclose which). More often times than non I feel that I am simply a showroom and encylopedia for online stores (B&H, Adorama, Amazon etc). Customers come in to the rather stark showroom I work with and ask me tones of questions, and in accordance with my job I answer them, even showing them a camera or two if I acutally have it in stock.
It is inevitable that we are out of stock on a product thats fits the customers criteria, or request. I go to check if my warehouse has it, and no. With that - it is usually at least a 4 week "backorder" on what should be a readily available item. In other words, no buying power. I understand that this is a specific problem, however we cannot ignore that this is hindering the ability to sell. I am limited to what we carry, which is about the same, or marginaly better than, your typical office max, best buy, etc. A saving grace is my photo knowledge and experience.
There are a lot of issues leading to "failiures" of B&M stores, to which would take pages to write about, but in short most of the time it is what the OT pointed out. Demographics, staff, and availablilty(of product) are heavy hitters in the demise/success of B&M stores of all kinds. Digital photography(cameras) are not to blame, technology is. The average mentallity of the cost-concious savvy consumer is also a factor.
I hope this did not read as a rant, I am simply playing the cards that I am dealt.
I have to get back to work now
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http://www.ernestmatteo.com
It is inevitable that we are out of stock on a product thats fits the customers criteria, or request. I go to check if my warehouse has it, and no. With that - it is usually at least a 4 week "backorder" on what should be a readily available item. In other words, no buying power. I understand that this is a specific problem, however we cannot ignore that this is hindering the ability to sell. I am limited to what we carry, which is about the same, or marginaly better than, your typical office max, best buy, etc. A saving grace is my photo knowledge and experience.
There are a lot of issues leading to "failiures" of B&M stores, to which would take pages to write about, but in short most of the time it is what the OT pointed out. Demographics, staff, and availablilty(of product) are heavy hitters in the demise/success of B&M stores of all kinds. Digital photography(cameras) are not to blame, technology is. The average mentallity of the cost-concious savvy consumer is also a factor.
I hope this did not read as a rant, I am simply playing the cards that I am dealt.
I have to get back to work now
--
http://www.ernestmatteo.com
billzilla2000
Veteran Member
With the advent of the internet, it simply became too easy for the Amazons of the world to circumvent brick and mortar.
I can get a Tamron 70-200mm from Amazon for $689 plus $14 for 2-day shipping, no tax. The lowest my local camera shop was willing to go (and I feel for them, and have bought cameras from them several times)? $749 plus tax. No contest, sorry.
I can get a Tamron 70-200mm from Amazon for $689 plus $14 for 2-day shipping, no tax. The lowest my local camera shop was willing to go (and I feel for them, and have bought cameras from them several times)? $749 plus tax. No contest, sorry.
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Ernest M Aquilio
Guest
The biggest store in this city values service like the one you offer and they've been enjoying more success than ever. Even if you kept an employee busy for half an hour with your questions and walked away without buying anything, they'll still be polite and smile. They even lent me a camera free of charge for a whole day since it wasn't on their rentals list. I'm not saying that every store should do that but even offering some water to a client who looks tired and is coughing leaves a huge impression (happened to me and and it's always on my mind when I buy there even if I could save on sales taxes by buying online from somewhere else).
This trend has been going on since specialty warehouses started carrying one or two items and selling them at a huge discount way back in the 80's. Now the same thing is true with camera gear. No surprise.
I went to order a 24pin dot matrix printer back in the "good ole days" before most college professors new what email was. The printer listed for over $1,000 USD. I decided to buy a stack of catalogs and magazines and shop all 50 states in search of the best deal. I found this company that was selling what I wanted at less than 50% the cost of nearly every retail place I came across. "Scam" was my first thought. I called them up, and the lady told me to envision two football fields... then to envision a warehouse that big stocked only with the model printer that I was ordering a few other models.
I took a chance, paid by credit card, and my printer was sitting on my desk in several days! That was the end of me buying large items at retail. Around 1998 I purchased an Epson printer that wouldn't reproduce colors correctly- I sent it back to Epson, and the next day I received one from Epson Next Day Air! Before my defective printer even reached them. I can't a get that kind of service from my local stores most of the time.
Retail stores need to offer their own internet ordering, and get on the good foot. I can't believe so many stores require me to drive across town and shop their store when I'd rather order from my desk, hotel room, or while I'm sitting in an airport at 10pm.
I like being able to come home at 6pm Eastern Standard Time (EST) and dial up such-n-such place on the West Coast and order whatever I need when the local stores are closed (and don't offer online purchases). This concept of being confined to shopping local is ridiculous to me and counter progressive- just like the thought of being stagnant just for the sake of saving jobs. Want to flourish? Offer what I need, not the same ole ratty service that I got back in the 80's before there were a myriad of choices.
Stores paying $6,500 per month rent, along with all the other business expenses that come along with renting a place (trash, insurance, etc.,) doesn't cut it when you don't have enough buyers to support the financial outlay. I don't care if an authorized store is selling lenses from the back of a white van with no windows in the back alley- I just want a great price and a product that works. I don't want any extra stuff that makes me have to pay a higher price.
When I buy I know exactly what I want- I just want it to get here quickly, no errors, and in working order as it should be... at a fiercely competitive price. Most shops seem to be in the stone age.
About 10 years ago I relished the fact that several chain eateries were getting with the times and taking orders via email and fax (Applebees, a pizza place, & Subway)! I could shoot an email to the place before lunch, show up, swipe my credit card, and out the door I go with my hot lunch! No waiting 40 minutes just to eat during a short lunch. That easy. I don't know if they do that anymore in New Orleans, but I used the stew out of the service while i could. My point is that Camera shops still haven't caught on.
I called up a camera store 100 miles away in North Fl., wanted to order several hundred bucks worth of stuff knowing I could get it faster than BH could ship it to me. "Can you guys mail the stuff to me?" their reply: "Uhhhhhh... I don't know how we'd do that... can you get here?" Obviously I didn't want drive 100 miles to "get there", or otherwise I would've just waltzed into the store and shopped.
Ok, you go to the freaking post office (or better yet use your USPS, FedEX, or UPS pickup/ account) weigh the stuff, tell me what I owe you and ship it to me; It 'ain't brain surgery!
I wound up going with BH. No muss. No problem. No dealing with people who don't have a working knowledge of how to conduct simple business in today's world.
My local business equip. store and B&Ms all across the region (FL, AL, GA, and MS) wanted about $1k - over $2k for what I could get a high speed Canon Scanner for online, and I'd have to wait over a week to get it. I ordered online at night on a Friday and had it shipped to FL via FedEx Next Day Air. I had my scanner in hand by before 9am Saturday morning . Try that with your local store.
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Teila K. Day
I went to order a 24pin dot matrix printer back in the "good ole days" before most college professors new what email was. The printer listed for over $1,000 USD. I decided to buy a stack of catalogs and magazines and shop all 50 states in search of the best deal. I found this company that was selling what I wanted at less than 50% the cost of nearly every retail place I came across. "Scam" was my first thought. I called them up, and the lady told me to envision two football fields... then to envision a warehouse that big stocked only with the model printer that I was ordering a few other models.
I took a chance, paid by credit card, and my printer was sitting on my desk in several days! That was the end of me buying large items at retail. Around 1998 I purchased an Epson printer that wouldn't reproduce colors correctly- I sent it back to Epson, and the next day I received one from Epson Next Day Air! Before my defective printer even reached them. I can't a get that kind of service from my local stores most of the time.
Retail stores need to offer their own internet ordering, and get on the good foot. I can't believe so many stores require me to drive across town and shop their store when I'd rather order from my desk, hotel room, or while I'm sitting in an airport at 10pm.
I like being able to come home at 6pm Eastern Standard Time (EST) and dial up such-n-such place on the West Coast and order whatever I need when the local stores are closed (and don't offer online purchases). This concept of being confined to shopping local is ridiculous to me and counter progressive- just like the thought of being stagnant just for the sake of saving jobs. Want to flourish? Offer what I need, not the same ole ratty service that I got back in the 80's before there were a myriad of choices.
Stores paying $6,500 per month rent, along with all the other business expenses that come along with renting a place (trash, insurance, etc.,) doesn't cut it when you don't have enough buyers to support the financial outlay. I don't care if an authorized store is selling lenses from the back of a white van with no windows in the back alley- I just want a great price and a product that works. I don't want any extra stuff that makes me have to pay a higher price.
When I buy I know exactly what I want- I just want it to get here quickly, no errors, and in working order as it should be... at a fiercely competitive price. Most shops seem to be in the stone age.
About 10 years ago I relished the fact that several chain eateries were getting with the times and taking orders via email and fax (Applebees, a pizza place, & Subway)! I could shoot an email to the place before lunch, show up, swipe my credit card, and out the door I go with my hot lunch! No waiting 40 minutes just to eat during a short lunch. That easy. I don't know if they do that anymore in New Orleans, but I used the stew out of the service while i could. My point is that Camera shops still haven't caught on.
I called up a camera store 100 miles away in North Fl., wanted to order several hundred bucks worth of stuff knowing I could get it faster than BH could ship it to me. "Can you guys mail the stuff to me?" their reply: "Uhhhhhh... I don't know how we'd do that... can you get here?" Obviously I didn't want drive 100 miles to "get there", or otherwise I would've just waltzed into the store and shopped.
Ok, you go to the freaking post office (or better yet use your USPS, FedEX, or UPS pickup/ account) weigh the stuff, tell me what I owe you and ship it to me; It 'ain't brain surgery!
I wound up going with BH. No muss. No problem. No dealing with people who don't have a working knowledge of how to conduct simple business in today's world.
My local business equip. store and B&Ms all across the region (FL, AL, GA, and MS) wanted about $1k - over $2k for what I could get a high speed Canon Scanner for online, and I'd have to wait over a week to get it. I ordered online at night on a Friday and had it shipped to FL via FedEx Next Day Air. I had my scanner in hand by before 9am Saturday morning . Try that with your local store.
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Teila K. Day
MusicDoctorDJ
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Nice rant . . .
Maybe one day when you no longer have anymore business because all of your potential local clients are unemployed because there are no longer anymore jobs in your area to help support your business, that perhaps you'll understand just how off your chest pounding really is!
What goes around usually comes back around.
Maybe one day when you no longer have anymore business because all of your potential local clients are unemployed because there are no longer anymore jobs in your area to help support your business, that perhaps you'll understand just how off your chest pounding really is!
What goes around usually comes back around.
That's when you do the sensible thing. Find another business to go into just like the milk delivery men did. just like video stores did. just like hundreds of thousands of small general computer stores did. It's about keeping the ball rolling. I don't take joy in people being out of work. I also abhor the thought of doing 'the same ole inefficient thing' just for the sake of job preservation.
Should we bring back video arcades and bash Nintendo, et al, just because the closure of countless video arcades cost thousands of jobs? Of course not.
Perhaps we should blame technology for making the Yellowpages in the phone book virtually worthless for many business. I remember when you'd see "Yellowpages" offices all over the place- not so much anymore. Darn the internet for costing those jobs right?
Let's blame digital photography for ripping a hole in the generalists photographer's profits right?
Whip out your 12 gauge and start blasting away at your computer, because it (coupled with sorry management) is costing the U.S.P.S. jobs.. Are you mad at Apple, Dell, Microsoft, Sprint, Verizon, Facebook, AOL, Skype, etc., because they offer email and or some form of messaging? ... meanwhile the freaking post office thinks it's business at usually to stop at every freaking house on the street when gas is nearly $4 per gallon.
A sophomore in college can come up with a better solution than that and overhaul the post office's SOP in less than 8 hours... every house delivery and operating on Saturday's in many locales didn't make sense when gas was $0.87 per gallon let alone now.
Camera stores are failing largely in part because of poor management.
Lastly, I think that's the problem with many (most) traditional camera stores.... they don't see past potential "local" customers. Local is ok... but if a guy in Telluride, CO wants to purchase a 500mm lens and I'm running a store in the swamps of Louisiana, I want to woo his business; which means I have to think nation-wide (if not global) commerce and have a way for that customer to purchase from me over the internet, 24hrs. day.
Adapt, and grow... or find another line of work.
Southwest Airlines at least got it decades ago (one airframe made business and maintenance sense)... now the U.S. Military is finally coming around to the same way of thinking (egads! having only a few airframes common across the military makes better financial sense... sheesh.. really? No! You don't say! (sarcasm abound))
You can spend all the time you want with customers- but in all but rare cases, regardless of the business you're in, if you're not progressing with the times and making adjustments in your business according to today's realities, then you're a stagnant retail store. Those stores are most prone to die. You know that. I know that.
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Teila K. Day
MusicDoctorDJ
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Nice second rant, too!
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J. D.
Colorado
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J. D.
Colorado
- "If your insurance company tells you that you don't need a lawyer . . . hire a lawyer!"
franrahl
Active member
Worth a trip. Service Photo is an excellent physical store which offers a wide range of products at very competitive prices. I wouldn't buy from anyone else. They have a very knowledgeable staff and will take the time to explain things.
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Fran Rahl
'Happy when it all works out!'
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Fran Rahl
'Happy when it all works out!'
henryp
Veteran Member
Thank you. BTW I think your entire post was on the money. Nicely put.
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Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video
photojoe55
Leading Member
To Henryp, A lot of replies on that one. I'm glad we agree. ... Joe Prete
Actually IT IS the same with bookstores. When Borders started to close it's stores there were more than a few interviews published of people in the electronic book industry complaining how it will hurt the sale of ebooks.
"Now people have less places to browse through books to help them decide which ebook to buy online."
PHOTOJOE55 wrote:
...There are no counters, just a couch and some chairs on two levels. You can buy what you need, learn how to use it and also make a friend. A friend you can trust!
Roy
...There are no counters, just a couch and some chairs on two levels. You can buy what you need, learn how to use it and also make a friend. A friend you can trust!
Hey, sounds just like JESSOPS!
Roy
kd6vm
Forum Enthusiast
I think one of the greatest price differentials beween b&m stores and internet outlets is reflected in the price of camera bags. I was in Office Max and Best Buy and even Walmart looking at camera bags. $34.95 for the same bag I can buy at B&H or Amazon for $7.95.
At that price differential, retail stores deserve whatever fate awaits them.
At that price differential, retail stores deserve whatever fate awaits them.
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