Why did I get last place?

I entered the "Pink" challenge ( http://www.dpreview.com/challenges/Challenge.aspx?ID=5206 ) and got 100th place out of 100 entries with this:





Now I know that if you look at my challenge entries most of them are pretty bad and I have gotten last place a few times before, including another recent one (Coffee Break), though I think that was because the picture was a little bit off the theme.

But in this one, I don't understand how I got judged the worst out of 100 photos. I realize that this isn't a world-beating photo but it's still pretty decent; true, the background is a little distracting and I should have addressed that in post, but the pink element is pretty strong, and unlike some of the entries that "beat" me, there is actually a solid amount of pink. Like I said, not a remarkable photo, but I think several other entries were clearly worse. Some photos has barely any pink in them (65, 89), some had a very drab and washed out pink (48, 78, 86), and several had no pink at all (43, 49b, 92, 97; purple is not pink). I don't include all of those photos in the group that I think are worse than mine (but rather in the group that don't embrace the challenge), but some other ones I don't mention, for more subjective reasons.

Now as for why this photo could be judged so harshly, probably the two "worst" elements of it are the background (again, I could have improved that in post by blurring it more and lightening + desaturating the purples, for instance), and the softness of the subject (probably can't be helped much due to the limitation of the kit lens). You could nitpick and say it's a little boring or too symmetrical or too tightly framed on the bottom (I wanted to get a decent background blur which is tough to do at 55mm and f/5.6). But like I said looking at the other entries there are several that are clearly worse than mine, and many others that are roughly equal, in my opinion. I have checked off all the boxes of why this photo would get such a low rating of 1.5 and get last place out of 100 and it doesn't add up. What am I missing?

It is a horrible blow to our self-esteem to get a low vote, but you just have to look at it as a learning experience.

Rather than worrying about what you have done wrong it might be better to look at the top ten entries in the Challenge and ask yourself: What did they get right?

The dynamism of the first two is so powerful that you can easily see why voters, probably taking only two seconds to place their vote, immediately hit the fifth star. The voting system favours the instant gut reaction rather than reflection and comparison. That is not a bad thing.

The third has great beauty and majesty and the distinct advantage of being favoured by Sydney voters. The local bias effect, while not strong, is probably a factor

Beyond the sixteenth place [it's good to be on the top page of results] all the rest are equal 17th. 50th, 75th or 100th -- there is no real difference.

So, to return to the beginning, don't tell anyone that you came last and they will never know. Look at the winners and ask Why? They almost always deserve it.
--
Terry Lane
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Your point is taken. There is an appreciable difference between the best entries and the worst. However I don't necessarily agree with choosing "top 16" as a goal; it should be a lot easier to get top 16 in a niche challenge with only 30 entries than in a challenge with wide appeal and 400 entries. So probably either a percentile or an average rating is the best objective measure. Having said that I have yet to score in the top 25% of any challenge. But I will keep taking photos and entering until I do.

Voting results can be a head scratcher at times. I didn't vote in the "pink" challenge, and I agree that your "coffee break" entry seemed off theme (but then, I thought most were off-theme--the first line in the description was "our favorite part of the working day," so I'm thinking staff room, office cubicle, thermos bottle; something that relates to a work setting), but I loved your entry in the Your Best Photo challenge. The title, Enjoying the Beach, really complemented what we see in the picture--we see at least four distinctly different ways in which people are enjoying the same place, and not because some panoramic view just sweeps up everything in sight, but with the more intimate, tighter framing of a slightly longer than normal focal length. How it landed 191st out of 227 entries is a mystery to me.

Frankly - I don't know either. I haven't - yet - finished last in a challenge. In one, however, where I finished 56th of 88, I was surprised to see that one ahead of me was a picture of an almost identical subject which was a poor effort in all respects. I showed the two images to my daughter, a graphic artist with an advertising firm, telling her that mine was the poor one. Her response was that I shouldn't have entered, and that she could, possibly, have used the other one professionally. I won't be so ungentlemanly as to identify the other photographer - not his/her fault, but I was peeved.

I can understand where your Daughter is coming from . . .

http://www.dpreview.com/challenges/Entry.aspx?ID=506845&View=Results&Rows=25

Your picture doesn't lead me eye in any particular direction . . . and the pain white background is a little too stark.

rowanberry said:

Her response was that I shouldn't have entered, and that she could, possibly, have used the other one professionally. I won't be so ungentlemanly as to identify the other photographer - not his/her fault, but I was peeved.

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RaptorUK said:

http://www.dpreview.com/challenges/Entry.aspx?ID=506845&View=Results&Rows=25

Your picture doesn't lead me eye in any particular direction . . . and the pain white background is a little too stark.

rowanberry said:

Her response was that I shouldn't have entered, and that she could, possibly, have used the other one professionally. I won't be so ungentlemanly as to identify the other photographer - not his/her fault, but I was peeved.

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Yes, I suppose that the plain background in my effort would be better suited to my daughter's field than a more purely artistic one. My pictures have sometimes been criticised for lacking a strong single focal point; in this case I thought that the title "A family group" would have explained that.

Thanks for taking the trouble to look for the picture and for your critical input.

There is no choice, one has to be last even if it seems unfair and everyone here has had the same experience. What's funny is that winners never complain that they are first, wonder why?

I could definitely see it being in the bottom 10, although there are a couple others I'd have rated lower (e.g. 89 and 99). So I would agree with you that it shouldn't have been the lowest rated one. Having said that, I'd have given it an overall 1.0, along with about 10 or 15 others, because it met the rules by having pink in it, but was otherwise marginal in terms of composition and technical merit

Like someone else suggested, if you really want to improve your photography, I would recommend that you compare your work to the top tier finishers. You're obviously an avid photographer and seem motivated to improve. To move in that direction, you need to view your work with a more critical eye and apply the lessons you learn from comparing it with the higher rated entries.

Alan
--
http://arclark.smugmug.com/

The two most striking areas in which there is potential for improvement:

Framing: Flower shots generally need to either include the entire flower, or if not, have a point of interest that justifies the crop (such as an insect or point of light). Your crop really just looks like you didn't frame the flower very well.

I can't find any part of the photo that's in focus. Could be the way DPR is displaying, but I've looked at it on 3 different PCs/monitors and it is still soft without being a pleasing 'soft focus effect"

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I feel your pain IcyVeins.

I'm new to the whole Challenge thing and I just don't understand the voting. Your pic is at least pink. There are at least two that I wouldn't even call pink.

I applaud your candor. We enter challenges to get better, right? I wish people would put some kind of comment when they vote. What CharlesB58 said was very helpful. That's exactly the kind of input I'd like to see on my own entries.

Whatever you do, don't quit. I think you have potential. Taking and showing pictures is how we get better.
--
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Thanks for the input Charles.

I noticed the focus problem too. It seems like some of the flower is in the foreground and some is in the background, so maybe the depth of field is too small. But that doesn't seem like it should happen at 55mm and f/5.6. Would it be better to stop down and give up some of the background blur, and maybe try to blur more in photoshop? Or could it be a problem with the autofocus of the camera or lens? Or am I wrong about depth of field being the issue?

I agree with the points about looking toward the higher rated photographs as a means of improvement, as well as the advice regarding the crop. I'd also add that the blur you achieved through photoshop looks a touch artificial. While the proper depth of field can make your subject pop, I think striving to achieve it with the camera is the best bet.

Better luck next time!

IcyVeins said:

Thanks for the input Charles.

I noticed the focus problem too. It seems like some of the flower is in the foreground and some is in the background, so maybe the depth of field is too small. But that doesn't seem like it should happen at 55mm and f/5.6. Would it be better to stop down and give up some of the background blur, and maybe try to blur more in photoshop? Or could it be a problem with the autofocus of the camera or lens? Or am I wrong about depth of field being the issue?

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Depth of Field doesn't look to be the issue, it could be the focus is off.

However, DoF decreases exponentially the closer you get to the subject. So you might have 30" of depth @ f5.6 5 feet from the subject, but get down to 12" and it may be only 3 or 4 inches.

--

Some people operate cameras. Others use them to create images. There is a difference.

http://ikkens.zenfolio.com/

http://sarob-w.deviantart.com/

Thanks. I did not blur the image in photoshop, this came directly from the camera. I was only considering it for future close focus shots. I did not know about depth of field decreasing exponentially with close focus, that is good to know. Next time I will take multiple shots at different apertures and distances to see the best way to achieve the right amount of depth of field.

Normally I would say that last place for this shot would be unwarranted. But looking at the entries, I have to say that was an unusually strong field of entries for a challenge. IMO no shame in finishing last in this challenge.
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When I first started here I put a lot of pictures in challenges and ones that allowed multiple I would add a few. I did this so I could see what was better then mine so I could strive to make improvements. Analyzing the top finishers was more relative in challenges I had a photo in and I think it helped.

I've gotten better in the last year because of this and sometimes regret the approach as I now have been trying to claw my way up to the 50% mark for over a year now. It was still a good decision as I have improved my photography which was the goal.

Look and learn as others have said and don't be afraid of trying new things.
--
It's easier to ask for forgiveness then to ask for permission.

My opinion of your photo is, well there is very little on focus including the pink flower. I would expect the yellow part of the pink flower to be in focus which it is not. The lighting is also a bit harsh and there are other distracting colors in the background. Overall it is a bit of an average photo, not something I would expect to place high. There are a lot of aspects of what goes into a good image that are missing here. Good luck in future challenges.
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HI, the more photos you take and then compare to others the better you will become so dont let this put you off however this partilcular photo had more things going wrong for it than good.Keep trying dont give up and anyway it's far better than the ones people didn't enter.

IcyVeins said:

But in this one, I don't understand how I got judged the worst out of 100 photos. I realize that this isn't a world-beating photo but it's still pretty decent; true, the background is a little distracting and I should have addressed that in post,

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the BG is very distracting and makes a very bad color combination with the flower

IcyVeins said:

but the pink element is pretty strong, and unlike some of the entries that "beat" me, there is actually a solid amount of pink.

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It is not about the amount of pink in the picture. It is more about the main object is pink. How it fits in the BG and what does it tell the viewer. Your flower is not even entirely in the frame. You've cut a half of it!

IcyVeins said:

Like I said, not a remarkable photo, but I think several other entries were clearly worse. Some photos has barely any pink in them (65, 89), some had a very drab and washed out pink (48, 78, 86), and several had no pink at all (43, 49b, 92, 97; purple is not pink).

I don't include all of those photos in the group that I think are worse than mine (but rather in the group that don't embrace the challenge), but some other ones I don't mention, for more subjective reasons.

Now as for why this photo could be judged so harshly, probably the two "worst" elements of it are the background (again, I could have improved that in post by blurring it more and lightening + desaturating the purples, for instance),

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Nothing personal, but better delete it. Don't even try to "improve" it. Seriously.

IcyVeins said:

and the softness of the subject (probably can't be helped much due to the limitation of the kit lens).

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So next time write under the photo "the photo is bad because my lens is bad (or camera, skills, weather etc). So be mercifull and give me the 1st place".

IcyVeins said:

You could nitpick and say it's a little boring or too symmetrical or too tightly framed on the bottom (I wanted to get a decent background blur which is tough to do at 55mm and f/5.6). But like I said looking at the other entries there are several that are clearly worse than mine, and many others that are roughly equal, in my opinion. I have checked off all the boxes of why this photo would get such a low rating of 1.5 and get last place out of 100 and it doesn't add up. What am I missing?

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Also, the precise position of your photo is not important. It is very difficult to find the best between two excellent photos, as well as to define the worst between two ugly photos. So you better check the rating + - 0,3 and see in which groop you belong to.