Flash - FL300r?

kiri

Senior Member
Messages
1,637
Reaction score
66
Location
Osaka, JP
Hi, I am sorry for a very newbie question, but I have never used an external flash before.

Can someone tell me, in fairly simple terms, what the FL300r flash will allow me to do and will not allow me to do?

I mean compared to the pop-up flash, and also something more powerful like the FL36r.

Also, is it fine to use on lumix cameras like GH1?

Mainly I just want to get a flash to experiment with different kinds of photography.

Thanks

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/memoki/
 
Hi, I am sorry for a very newbie question, but I have never used an external flash before.

Can someone tell me, in fairly simple terms, what the FL300r flash will allow me to do and will not allow me to do?

I mean compared to the pop-up flash, and also something more powerful like the FL36r.

Also, is it fine to use on lumix cameras like GH1?

Mainly I just want to get a flash to experiment with different kinds of photography.
Note, I haven't seen the FL-300R in person, this is from the specifications.

The FL-300R sits higher that your pop-up flash, which means it is less likely that you will get red-eyes in humans and green-eyes in dogs and cats when you use the flash. I'm guessing here, but with the pop-up flash you likely see red-eye if subjects are about 2 feet away from the camera, and with the FL-300R, maybe about 5 feet. The FL-36R is taller still, and that range is probably 8 feet.

In addition to straight on shooting, you can angle the FL-300R to 30 or 60 degrees. This allows you to bounce light off the ceiling (at 60 degrees) or illuminate macro shots from a different angle. The ceiling bounce will only work when you are shooting in landscape orientation (i.e. normal orientation where you are more interested in wider pictures than tall pictures). Using a ceiling bounce means that you don't have red-eyes in general, even for people further away. Because the light is bounced off the ceiling, it is spread out, which means the shadows are more diffused while using the flash straight on or the pop-up flash, means the shadows are more harsh. The FL-36R can tilt and swivel in just about any direction, which means you can change the angle of the bounce. You can also shoot in portrait mode, and using swivel, do a ceiling bounce.

The FL-300R is more powerful than the pop-up flash, so that you can take pictures of people further away. The FL-36R is even more powerful than the FL-300R. Note, when you are doing bounce, diffusion, or other flash modifications, it eats a lot of power, so having a more powerful flash means you can use the modifiers. Note, there is no getting around the falloff rule for light, which means if you take pictures in a large room with the flash fired straight ahead, and have people in front of the subject you are shooting and behind, the people up front will tend to get over-exposed, while the people at the back of the room will get under-exposed. In some rooms, you can angle the light for a ceiling bounce, so that the distance from the reflection on the ceiling to the subjects is roughly the same.

The FL-300R has a wide angle diffuser on it which means you can use the flash to shoot if you have the 9-18mm lens installed. The FL-36R has a similar diffuser. The pop-up flash can only illuminate at 14mm or longer.

The FL-300R flash only supports Olympus and Panasonic cameras, and it has no options for manual support. It does have the remote flash support for Olympus DSLRs that support it, but there are restrictions in its use. I know that the XZ-1 cannot drive the FL-300R in remote mode, and I wouldn't be surprised that the older Pens or DSLRs may also have limits on remote flash working. The pop-up flash being on the camera can't be remote from the camera, but you need the pop-up flash to drive the remote flash support. If you anticipate ever using the flash on other cameras in manual mode, or do a strobist style manual flash setup, get the FL-36R and not the FL-300R.

Neither the FL-300R nor the pop-up flash can be used with a shutter speed faster than the camera's native sync speed (1/160 to 1/250 depending on the camera). For indoor shooting, this is generally not an issue, as the flash will stop motion of the subject illuminated, but outdoors in bright light, it means you can't use the flash to fill in the shadows and make the light less harsh, because the camera needs to use a faster shutter speed for the picture, particularly if you use a fast lens and want as small of a depth of field as possible. The FL-36R has a mode called FP-TTL that allows you to shoot at a fast speed.

The FL-36R also supports the older 'auto' mode. This is the original flash automation. In auto mode, the flash is told what aperture you are shooting at, and the flash uses its own sensor to figure out when to cut off the light. This is useful in some cases, because there are people with really fast blink reflexes, and the normal digital camera flash which does a pre-flash to figure out settings, causes people to start blinking, and when the main flash comes along, their eyes are already closed.

The FL-36R uses 2 AA batteries, while the FL-300R uses 2 AAA batteries. I imagine you will need to replace batteries more often in the FL-300R. There are other flashes that support the Olympus camera which use 4 batteries, and these will last longer than the FL-36R. The Metz flashes and the FL-50R tend to recharge much faster than the FL-36R, which is useful if you are shooting something like a wedding and need to get a few flashes off as the bride runs down the aisle.

My take away is if you want a flash you can learn about various techniques, get the FL-36R. If you want a light weight flash to give you a little help, go with the FL-300R. If you need faster recharge time go with the Metz 50 AF-1 which is roughly the same cost as the FL-36R, but it doesn't have auto mode and is much larger. If you really need to crank out the shots, get the FL-50R or Metz 58 AF-2. I put together a list of various 3rd party flashes for Olympus and Panasonic:
http://www.the-meissners.org/olympus-flash2.html
 
Hi, I am sorry for a very newbie question, but I have never used an external flash before.

Can someone tell me, in fairly simple terms, what the FL300r flash will allow me to do and will not allow me to do?
is the ability to bounce it for more natural looking photos.

First photo is direct flash, second is bounce with a bounce card:








I mean compared to the pop-up flash, and also something more powerful like the FL36r.
Most external flashes are more powerful than the onboard flash, but if you are not bouncing you don't want a lot of power anyway-you want the flash to be very subtle-fill flash.
Also, is it fine to use on lumix cameras like GH1?
yes, but if you have a PEN, you can use the flash off camera, wirelessly and with ttl for a very professional look?




Mainly I just want to get a flash to experiment with different kinds of photography.
Then get a cheap TTL compatible bound flash like this Polaroid for $48.00 (free shipping, no sales tax from B & H).




Maximus Decimus Tedolphus
 
Thanks for your detailed info michael and tedolf. That's very helpful.

It sounds like the fl36r is a lot more versatile. Or as tedolf suggests, perhaps another ttl flash.. Maybe I can look for something 2nd hand.

I can still use the fl36 or other ttl flash off camera with the gh1 right?

thanks again

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/memoki/
 
Thanks for your detailed info michael and tedolf. That's very helpful.

It sounds like the fl36r is a lot more versatile. Or as tedolf suggests, perhaps another ttl flash.. Maybe I can look for something 2nd hand.

I can still use the fl36 or other ttl flash off camera with the gh1 right?
Yes, any Four Thirds/Panasonic/Olympus TTL compatible flash will work fine with any Panasonic or Olympus hot-shoe camera.

To extend the flash off the camera and still use TTL then you need a flash extender cable which does have a length limit of something like 4 or 5 feet as that is the way they make them. Any of Panasonic/Olympus/Canon flash extender cables will work. The Canon cable has an extra contact that is not used but it works the same as the others.

The FL-36R is recommended because in future you may end up with an Olympus body (it happens) and then the excellent RC slave feature of the Olympus can be used where you can get slave TTL operation with no cables needed. The FL-36R is bigger of course than the FL-300R but has more output and can do decent bounce in domestic situations.

Regards............. Guy
 
Thanks for your detailed info michael and tedolf. That's very helpful.

It sounds like the fl36r is a lot more versatile. Or as tedolf suggests, perhaps another ttl flash.. Maybe I can look for something 2nd hand.

I can still use the fl36 or other ttl flash off camera with the gh1 right?
It depends on what you mean by off camera. If by remote you mean using a single flash connected via a flash cable (Olympus FL-CB05 or equivalent), then any Olympus compatible TTL flash will work.

If you meant using the Panasonic pop-up flash to drive one or more remote flashes, then the answer is no. The Panasonic cameras do not support the Olympus style off camera remote TTL.

In fact, they don't even support normal optical slaves off camera, since there appears to be no way to tell the camera to fire the pop-up flash in manual mode. The Nissian Di466 is the only flash that supports Olympus TTL wired functions that has a mode to deal with digital cameras that can't suppress the pre-flash. The Olympus FL-36R and FL-50R and the Metz flashes have a dumb optical slave mode, but it isn't compatible with Panasonic.

You could use a cheap ebay radio trigger on the Panasonic to fire off the FL-36R.
 
Sorry to bring up this thread again, but I just wanted to ask one more thing.

If I want to get a cheap 2nd hand TTL compatible flash to mess around with, how can I tell whether it will be compatible with m4/3 cameras?

Also, what will I lose the ability to do with this option as opposed to getting something specifically 4/3 like the FL36?

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/memoki/
http://plus.ly/kirin
 
Sorry to bring up this thread again, but I just wanted to ask one more thing.

If I want to get a cheap 2nd hand TTL compatible flash to mess around with, how can I tell whether it will be compatible with m4/3 cameras?

Also, what will I lose the ability to do with this option as opposed to getting something specifically 4/3 like the FL36?
If a flash is "Four Thirds" or "Micro Four Thirds" or" Panasonic" or "Olympus" compatible then it is TTL compatible with any recent (last few years) Panasonic or Olympus camera that has a hot-shoe.

What Olympus brings to the party (with Pen models apart from E-P1 & 2) is the RC slave control of the "R" model flashes, such as FL-300R, FL-36R and FL-50R and eliminates cables and leads for full slave TTL operation. Nice. It also can be used as a dumb simple slave with auto or manual operation, or more modes of RC control slave like manual (fixed settings of power output) and "auto" where the slave flash detects and sets its own output, as opposed to TTL where the camera controls what the slave flash outputs.

Some upper Metz models have some limited features of the Olympus RC slave control, very usable but not fully as clever as the Olympus R models. Need to dig into the specs at http://www.metz.de/en/flash-units/product-ranges/system-flash-units.html Dang! Their links have changed, but that one is OK.

Flashes such as the Nissin Di466 Four Thirds model have TTL ability in the hot-shoe or on an extension cable (Olympus, Panasonic or Canon cables all work fine), but no RC TTL control, only a simpler slave mode, check their site to see details http://www.nissindigital.com/en/di466_ft.html

There are some cheap flashes floating about with TTL compatibility but may be of dubious quality if too cheap.

Regards............ Guy
 
Thanks Guy.

I will be using it on panasonic cameras most likely, so RC is not going to be supported anyway it seems.

The reason I was wondering about other flashes is because there are a lot of camera stores near me with 2nd hand flashes from various camera makers so I thought I might be able to pick up something cheap that will work ok. I guess I will have to look up the specific model numbers to see if they are compatible.

Canon/Nikon flashes will not work will they?

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/memoki/
http://plus.ly/kirin
 
Thanks Guy.

I will be using it on panasonic cameras most likely, so RC is not going to be supported anyway it seems.

The reason I was wondering about other flashes is because there are a lot of camera stores near me with 2nd hand flashes from various camera makers so I thought I might be able to pick up something cheap that will work ok. I guess I will have to look up the specific model numbers to see if they are compatible.

Canon/Nikon flashes will not work will they?
Certainly Canon/Nikon TTL is not compatible but some models can be used in their auto or manual modes. I use Nikon SB-26 and SB-30 on Panasonic LX3 with success. The flash needs to be in the auto mode where its own sensor detects reflected light, and the camera in manual mode and match ISO and aperture on camera and flash, and fine tune the flash or the camera with a couple of test shots. After that it is as reliable as TTL but without that annoying double flash of TTL.

My list at http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~parsog/panasonic/11-flash.html#flashlist gives a few clues about what people have used on the LX3 and that makes it usable in the same way on any Panasonic or Olympus body. If the flash can't do TTL or auto (I usually call it self-auto) then it is a pain. Some smaller models of flash are dedicated TTL only like the Nikon SB-400 or SB-600 so are useless. They will work at maybe full power only but then you have to always calculate what aperture to use for the distance involved. Total pain. So look for "yes" in the "Auto" column in my chart for ease of use. But total ease of course comes with the "TTL" column at "yes".

Regards........ Guy
 
Guy, Michael, Maximus: Thanks for your knowledgeable and helpful comments. This is actually one of the most clear non-contentious threads I've read here in a while.

I would add one less than knowledgeable comment: For many of us here, we went m4/3s for the small size and low weight. What makes the 300r interesting is that it appears to be the smallest and lightest flash that has more than the most basic functions. This gives it the edge for folks looking to have an ultralight system.
 
I put together a list of various 3rd party flashes for Olympus and Panasonic:
http://www.the-meissners.org/olympus-flash2.html
Very useful list, thanks, you've saved me a lot of research time! I'm looking for a small flash for my E-PL1, mainly for bounce (indoor) and fill (outdoor) use. I'm a bit put off by FL-300R's lack of 90 degrees bounce, silver finish and relatively high price. Does anyone know of some online review of the unit?
 


Tedolf: you've made a good suggestion in using a reflector for 'catch' light...getting the sparkle in the eyes...and a little frontal lighting to boot.

You can make this one from a Walmart storage bin lid (1.00 for the whole thing) -(I used an old plastic container for screws) and you get a storage bin left over, without a lid of course.), and a hair tie, or rubber band. Tools: a paper punch and a pair of scissors. You can reverse this too for macro shots when you get too much light. A rubber band doesn't look as good as a hair tie, but is handy for getting stuck filters off. I got this GN100 Auto flash, brand new at B&H used last spring for $6.95...and the trigger voltage is less than 3V - if an older flash is used on camera, always google trigger voltages...or use a Wein safe sync (expensive).

Move over Gary Fong.
--
http://www.pbase.com/madlights
http://barriolson.aminus3.com/

Like the Joker said: Why so serious?
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top