420ex flash bounce tips?

Hi I recently got my 420EX flash and would like some tips on how to bounce the light for the better indoor family pics. Do you point the flash straight up at the cieling or at an angle in front or behind? I usually dont have an appropriate opposing wall to bounce the flash. Do you use an "index card"? Do you have to increase the flash output power for bounce shots? What is the proper way to use the flash exposure lock feature? Sorry for the barrage of questions...thanks for any feedback!
--
amit garg

amit garg said:

Hi I recently got my 420EX flash and would like some tips on how to
bounce the light for the better indoor family pics.

Click to expand...

Good choice!

amit garg said:

Do you point
the flash straight up at the cieling or at an angle in front or
behind?

Click to expand...

The typical approach is to tilt it forward 45 degrees. There's one click before straight up. I like to use and index card. You can hold to the back of the flash with a rubber band. I used velco since I already had it on the flash for the Lumiquest.

You can also swivel it to the side if there is a wall near by. In close quarters you can even point it back and to an angle (over your shoulder).

amit garg said:

I usually dont have an appropriate opposing wall to bounce
the flash.

Click to expand...

Use the ceiling or get a Lumiquest pocket bouncer.

amit garg said:

Do you have to increase the
flash output power for bounce shots?

Click to expand...

Not usually. The e-ttl usaually takes care of the proper metering. Nice, eh?

amit garg said:

What is the proper way to use
the flash exposure lock feature?

Click to expand...

--
Greg
G3 - 420EX

amit,

Why don't you try using the 420 pointing straight up and pointing a bit forward, and see which you like best? After all the film is free. I determine this issue by how high the ceiling is - if it is high I tend to point the flash straight up, if it is low I tilt the flash forward. I think you probably get more light on the subject if you tilt it forward.

Actually I usually use a Lumiquest Pocket Bouncer, which is attached to the flash and throws all of the light forward when the flash is pointed straight up. It softens the flash and cuts the harsh shadows direct flash usually gives. But I think using the indexcard on the flash to direct some of the light straight forward is a good idea. The trouble with this home made solution is that it is difficult to control - how much do you bend the card to throw the right amount of light forward? The Lumiquest 80/20 bouncer allows 80% of the light to go straight up and directs 20% forward toward the subject. This is a consistent and repeatable solution. Cheers

Happy Snapping
Don McVee
http://www.pbase.com/mcveed
latest uploads at http://www.pbase.com/mcveed/canada

I am by no means an expert but I've tried multiple methods including the Lumiquest Pocketbounce, Lumiquest Softbox, the Stofen Omnibounce, bouncing off the ceiling with no index card and bouncing with a card.

I find the Pocketbounce and the Omnibounce provide a harsh flash look or overexposure. Just my experience for what it's worth. I haven't given up on them - I'm just saying I haven't been all that impressed with the results.

The Softbox provides great results but it's not too practical to throw on when you want to take a great picture.

The method I most prefer is the index card. I typically angle at the 60 degree stop and attach an index card. It provides great fill and good overall lighting. Frankly, sometimes I'm a bit lazy about pulling out both the flash unit and the index card in a pinch (since my son is cute so often and it's a pain to keep pulling everything out). I'm frankly very happy with just bouncing it off the ceiling.

I've played around with a lot of angles. Like some say, experimenting is part of the fun.

Best Regards,

Rich

amit garg said:

Hi I recently got my 420EX flash and would like some tips on how to
bounce the light for the better indoor family pics. Do you point
the flash straight up at the cieling or at an angle in front or
behind? I usually dont have an appropriate opposing wall to bounce
the flash. Do you use an "index card"? Do you have to increase the
flash output power for bounce shots? What is the proper way to use
the flash exposure lock feature? Sorry for the barrage of
questions...thanks for any feedback!
--
amit garg

Click to expand...

--
But God...
Eph 2:4-8

I took quite some pictures this past weekend in a local mall, where practically there was no ceiling nor wall to bounce. I have a G3 with 420EX angled at 45 degree most of the times. I use the Omnibounce and found out that within around 12 feet, it worked great. There was enough light forward that enables very nice portrait shots. I often used 45 degree tilted, when my camera is the same level as my subject's eyes (for example, my subject is sitting so I have to bend my knees a little bit to have my camera the same level as the subject's eyes). The results turned out great. When I stand up taking the same shots at my sitting subject (my camera is pointing down a little bit), I discoverd that 60 degree worked better. That is because if I used 45 at this case, I have lots of light directed at the subject. At 60 degree, I effectively have a 45 tilting with my subject sitting and my camera pointing down. Beyond 12 feet or so, Omnibounce is no longer effective since there is no wall or ceiling to bounce. For outsides shots, I heard Pocket Bouncer is more effective since it bounces the light (with 420EX sitting straight up at 90 degree) at 90 degree. The Omnibounce diffuses the light at 180 degree, thus requires the celings or walls to bounce.

I am thinking to get the Pocket Bouncer from Lumiquest or the 2-way bouncer from Stofen for my outsides shots. I have been thinking of making my own permanent index-card like solution, but have yet to find a good way or material. Someone had used polythine from tapsplastics.com and seemed to work great. I have yet to find a local store that sells such plastics. But I had used the index card bent a little and with rubber band, and it worked great. Unfortunately, my index card is useless after few uses.

amit garg said:

Hi I recently got my 420EX flash and would like some tips on how to
bounce the light for the better indoor family pics. Do you point
the flash straight up at the cieling or at an angle in front or
behind? I usually dont have an appropriate opposing wall to bounce
the flash. Do you use an "index card"? Do you have to increase the
flash output power for bounce shots? What is the proper way to use
the flash exposure lock feature? Sorry for the barrage of
questions...thanks for any feedback!
--
amit garg

Click to expand...

--
Peter

G3 - it's amazing!
http://myg3shots.dynu.com/gallery/

Hi Amit,

I've tried all the tricks, but one that seems to work well for me is to use a white post-it note. I simply stick it to the flash and shoot with head tilted at about 60 degrees.

The neat thing about the post-it's i've been using is that they are fairly thin, making them somewhat translucent. So while a good amount of lights is bounced of the paper, some if it just goes through. It's also quicker to just adhere it to the flash than fumble with the rubber band.

(I also use the Stofen OB).

Cheers,
Jim

Jim Graham said:

(I also use the Stofen OB).

Click to expand...

I should clarify, I also use the OB as an alternative to just the plain flash, or the post-it note trick. I've never tried putting a bounce card or a post-it on the OB itself, though I'm sure it would probably do something

-Jim

(I'm new to all of this), but where exactly do you attach the index card/post-it? With the flash tilted, do you attach it to the back (the side closest to you) so that it extends out and over the the flash (sort of like the bill of a hat)? Maybe someone could post a link to a picture.

Thanks!

Jim Graham said:

Jim Graham said:

(I also use the Stofen OB).

Click to expand...

I should clarify, I also use the OB as an alternative to just the
plain flash, or the post-it note trick. I've never tried putting a
bounce card or a post-it on the OB itself, though I'm sure it would
probably do something

-Jim

Click to expand...

Chewie,
This thread will help you greatly.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=2711560

Chewie said:

Thanks!

Jim Graham said:

Chewie said:

(I also use the Stofen OB).

Click to expand...

I should clarify, I also use the OB as an alternative to just the
plain flash, or the post-it note trick. I've never tried putting a
bounce card or a post-it on the OB itself, though I'm sure it would
probably do something

-Jim

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Peter

G3 - it's amazing!
http://myg3shots.dynu.com/gallery/

What to do when you are zoomed in and close to the subject? Bouncing the flash off the cieling will cause the light to come directly down onto the subjects head causing shadows on the face? Is direct flash better in this case. I am going to try the index card or posit note(i didnt know they came in white..only seen yellow or pink!). Thanks for the great tips!

Amit

Peter N said:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=2711560

Chewie said:

Thanks!

Jim Graham said:

Peter N said:

(I also use the Stofen OB).

Click to expand...

I should clarify, I also use the OB as an alternative to just the
plain flash, or the post-it note trick. I've never tried putting a
bounce card or a post-it on the OB itself, though I'm sure it would
probably do something

-Jim

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Peter

G3 - it's amazing!
http://myg3shots.dynu.com/gallery/

Click to expand...

--
amit garg

amit garg said:

What to do when you are zoomed in and close to the subject?
Bouncing the flash off the cieling will cause the light to come
directly down onto the subjects head causing shadows on the face?

Click to expand...

Amit, you are absolutely right. But these shadows can also happen even when the subject is further away, if you happen to angle the flash so the bounce point is almost directly over the subject. This can sometimes be corrected by bouncing behind you, but you have to be careful not to get in the way and cast a shadow. The index card and Lumiquest bouncers will direct some of the light forward, which will fill in the shadows. The Lumiquest 80-20 gives you a repeatable fill. With an index card you can vary the fill by varying the extension or size of the card.

amit garg said:

Is direct flash better in this case.

Click to expand...

Direct flash is almost never better. The only exception is when your subject is near the flash range - you have no choice but to use direct, or the image will be underexposed.

Photography is all about lighting. A flash is a practically a point source of light, so it casts light and shadows in ways that look harsh and unnatural. Natural light is more diffuse and often comes from several directions. So to make the lighting and shadows look more natural, you need to enlarge or diffuse the light source, or have light coming from two or more directions, so the shadows are partially filled in.

Bounce flash provides a very large and diffuse light source on the wall or ceiling, and will provide a soft light for your subject from the side or above. As you've noticed, it may still produce unwanted shadows under eyes and nose. An index card combined with bounce flash redirects some of the light directly forward to fill in those shadows.

Even when there is no ceiling for bounce lighting, a large index card on the flash angled at 60 to 90 degrees will help to soften the shadows. At 60 degrees, you get some direct light from the flash, as well as the index card. The Lumiquest system is designed to do all of these basic things - but of course you pay for the "pro" look.

amit garg said:

I am going to try the index
card or posit note(i didnt know they came in white..only seen
yellow or pink!). Thanks for the great tips!

Click to expand...

My index cards are made from a white plastic juice container, and attach with a wide rubber band. I find it easier to adjust than velcro. hope this helps, gkl

Don McVee said:

amit,
Why don't you try using the 420 pointing straight up and pointing a
bit forward, and see which you like best? After all the film is
free. I determine this issue by how high the ceiling is - if it is
high I tend to point the flash straight up, if it is low I tilt the
flash forward. I think you probably get more light on the subject
if you tilt it forward.
Actually I usually use a Lumiquest Pocket Bouncer, which is
attached to the flash and throws all of the light forward when the
flash is pointed straight up. It softens the flash and cuts the
harsh shadows direct flash usually gives. But I think using the
indexcard on the flash to direct some of the light straight forward
is a good idea. The trouble with this home made solution is that it
is difficult to control - how much do you bend the card to throw
the right amount of light forward? The Lumiquest 80/20 bouncer
allows 80% of the light to go straight up and directs 20% forward
toward the subject. This is a consistent and repeatable solution.
Cheers

Happy Snapping

Click to expand...

...> Don McVee

mcveed said:

http://www.pbase.com/mcveed
latest uploads at http://www.pbase.com/mcveed/canada

Click to expand...

Will bounce flash only produce a desirable result when bouncing the light off white walls and ceilings? What is the result if light is bounced off a colored surface? What is the result if bounced off wood panelling?

BVO said:

Will bounce flash only produce a desirable result when bouncing the
light off white walls and ceilings? What is the result if light is
bounced off a colored surface? What is the result if bounced off
wood panelling?

Click to expand...

Well, when I first tried the post-it trick, I used a yellow post-it, and it indeed had a nasty yellow cast . So I would have to think that, yes, bouncing off non-white surfaces will indeed affect the results.

-Jim

• it will produce a colour cast. Bouncing off neutral grey surfaces is usually a waste of battery power and time. gkl

BVO said:

Will bounce flash only produce a desirable result when bouncing the
light off white walls and ceilings? What is the result if light is
bounced off a colored surface? What is the result if bounced off
wood panelling?

Click to expand...