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7hi and flash units.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Eugene Powers
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well, i know that canon dedicated flashes seem to have a built in rear curtain synch even thought the built in does it too and the external needs to be set to work that way

also, some external flashes don't have same synch capabilites as built ins - but i believe the 5600 syncs at all speeds - at least normal synch

there is no reason to assume that what works with built in works with external - i would hope they wouldn't drop any capabilities but who knows what strangeness lurks in the mind of marketing people?

i would really appreciate if you could do a quick 3-4 second shutter speed test to see if your sunpak does it correctly - if it does, then i will be confident the camera fully controls that
William West said:
Does your built-in flash work correctly when camera is set to Rear
Flash Sync? If yes, do you have any reason to believe Minolta
would provide a feature in a built-in flash, but not provide the
same feature in their high-end flash units?

Rear Flash Sync seems to work okay with my Sunpak PZ5000AF flash,
but I have not actually tried it using slow shutter speed with
moving object.

William
Click to expand...
--
Minolta D7i
http://www.pbase.com/ukbuckeye
http://www.nickyandjeff.dsl.pipex.com/weather/weather.htm
 
Hi,

The 5600 is ABSOLUTELY out of my budget precisely because I bought THE most exp 5MP camera. What is your opinion about the 3600HSD which I,ve just ordered?

Deepak
Hans-Jürgen Reggel said:
Hans-Jürgen Reggel said:
After reading the posts on this subject matter, I would appreciate
your answer to two questions:

(1) If money is not an issue, then is the 5600HSD "THE" best flash
unit to go with D7hi ?
Click to expand...
IHMO that's completely correct. The two make a perfect couple as
long as you don't want to use manual mode (except for very special
situations like stroboscopic flash).
For all of you who think money would be an issue: Hey, you just
bought THE most expensive 5MP camera.
Hans-Jürgen Reggel said:
(2) If manual mode is the only way to get ride of pre-flash, then
am I better off by having a Sunpak PZ-5000AF instead ?
Click to expand...
Why do you want to get rid of the pre-flash? Because you don't want
the delay it causes and you don't want to miss the right moment.
But manual mode needs proper adjustment which certainly takes more
time than the pre-flash. Some people suggest you can try several
times. That contradicts.
The only problem I see is that people tend to blink after the
pre-flash so that you catch them with closed or partially closed
eyes.

Hans-Jürgen
Click to expand...
 
Eugene Powers said:
Hello all,
Just ordered 7hi.
Are anyone using flash units other than 3600hs or 5600hs?
Anything off brand with better results?

TIA

Eugene
Click to expand...
I just placed an order with Adorama for the new Sigma EF-500 DG Super for Minolta. Will comment after I have had some time to evaluate.
 
Hi Deepak,
deepak rao said:
The 5600 is ABSOLUTELY out of my budget precisely because I bought
THE most exp 5MP camera. What is your opinion about the 3600HSD
which I,ve just ordered?

Deepak
Click to expand...
I don't know the differences in detail. The 3600 only supports tilt, but no swivel (rotate 90° in one and 180° in the other direction), so you can't use ceiling bounce in portrait mode. This is also a nice feature to turn the body towards the camera in wireless mode.

The 3600 has no fancy display where you can read the flash range, but you can calculate that roughly from the guide number and aperture.

I know that the difference in price is extreme, but since I noticed that there are differences, which could cause restrictions in certain situations I decided to go for the 5600. I tend to buy things once, since upgrading is more expensive.
But if money is an issue, I can understand this.

Anybody who knows details about the differences?

Hans-Jürgen
 
You will have to wait at least a month to get it.

Just spoke with the Sigma and they told me that they are not shipping these until middle of January.
I want this flash too.

Eugene
iammobay said:
Eugene Powers said:
Hello all,
Just ordered 7hi.
Are anyone using flash units other than 3600hs or 5600hs?
Anything off brand with better results?

TIA

Eugene
Click to expand...
I just placed an order with Adorama for the new Sigma EF-500 DG
Super for Minolta. Will comment after I have had some time to
evaluate.
Click to expand...
 
William West said:
Does your built-in flash work correctly when camera is set to Rear
Flash Sync? If yes, do you have any reason to believe Minolta
would provide a feature in a built-in flash, but not provide the
same feature in their high-end flash units?

Rear Flash Sync seems to work okay with my Sunpak PZ5000AF flash,
but I have not actually tried it using slow shutter speed with
moving object.

William
Click to expand...
Have you by any chance managed to connect your SunPak PZ-5000AF through PC sync cable?

Is there an adaptor or something that can be used to achieve this? It seems none of the SunPaks have PC sync sockets. (?)

--
Pabletto

http://www.pbase.com/pabletto
(samples taken with the MINOLTA DiMAGE 7)
Last update 22 October 2002 (Flower shots)
 
Hans-Jürgen Reggel said:
The only problem I see is that people tend to blink after the
pre-flash so that you catch them with closed or partially closed
eyes.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately some people have amazingly sensitive eyes! (argh)

On my shots, I have noticed that it is specific people who almost most of the time come out with their 'eyes wide shut'.

Having them not looking straight at the camera does help, but not always and again it depends on HOW sensitive those eyes are.

--
Pabletto

http://www.pbase.com/pabletto
(samples taken with the MINOLTA DiMAGE 7)
Last update 22 October 2002 (Flower shots)
 
Pabletto said:
Have you by any chance managed to connect your SunPak PZ-5000AF
through PC sync cable?
Is there an adaptor or something that can be used to achieve this?
It seems none of the SunPaks have PC sync sockets. (?)

--
Pabletto
Click to expand...
All of the Sunpak PZ5000AF flash units are dedicated models; i.e., they have a model for Nikon, Minolta, etc. I don't know of any dedicated flash units, including the 3600HS(D) and 5600HS(D) flash units, which provide PC sync connection. If you want to use a "Minolta dedicated flash" off-the camera via cable, Minolta provides part numbers OC-1100 and OS-1100.

PC sync basically fires the flash ... it does provide ADI flash control, etc.

Non-dedicated flash units, such as the Sunpak 383, Vivitar 285, etc., do provide PC sync connection; however, the Dimage 7x camera's hot shoe will not accept these flash units because the design of the footing on these flash units are not the same as Minolta's design.

William
 
Pabletto said:
Hans-Jürgen Reggel said:
The only problem I see is that people tend to blink after the
pre-flash so that you catch them with closed or partially closed
eyes.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately some people have amazingly sensitive eyes! (argh)
On my shots, I have noticed that it is specific people who almost
most of the time come out with their 'eyes wide shut'.
Having them not looking straight at the camera does help, but not
always and again it depends on HOW sensitive those eyes are.
Click to expand...
IMHO, the pre-flash problem here is a show stopper. It's beyond me why Minolta didn't provide another way (as a menu option) to sense light level from the flash so that pre-flash could be disabled when it became a problem. In my case, I solved the problem by buying a Sunpak 5000AF. With that flash, I set the camera and flask to aperture mode and set both to f8. The flash adjusts it's power to get the proper exposure based on the light coming from the subject without using a pre-flash. It works very well.

I've posted this message many times on this forum. Here's why I said that pre-flash is a show stopper. I do a lot of cat photography and many cats blink because of the pre-falsh. When a cat has the blinking problem, I can take 100 shots and its eyes will be shut on every shot. So it's impossible to use the flash to take the photo. In a dark cat shelter, that means no photos at all. Also, you can't ask a cat not to look directly at the camera and they are always moving. I'm not sure it would help if you could. So you have to be ready when the pose is right.

Incidentally, I also have the Minolta 3600 flash and it does an excellent job except for the pre-flash problem. I was forced to buy the additonal flash or give up trying to photograph cats with the D7i.

Dewdrop
 
At last, this has now become clear for me.

Many thanks William. I was so confused with those different terms and connections. Things are more clear now. Thanks again!

--
Pabletto

http://www.pbase.com/pabletto
(samples taken with the MINOLTA DiMAGE 7)
Last update 22 October 2002 (Flower shots)
 
Hello Hans-Jürgen,

Thank you for the reply and pointing me to your second report on heavy use of D7hi. I got your first report but missed the second one.

Sam
Hans-Jürgen Reggel said:
Jeff/UK said:
Sam
if it is once in a lifetime, I would personally risk closed eyes
with preflash to get fast and repeatable exposures under constantly
changing conditions.

if you go manual, you will slow everything down and I think run a
much higher risk of improperly exposed shots.
Click to expand...
If it's like that I agree with Jeff, just take more shots. If you
shoot a group of 10 people, it's hard to get them all with properly
open eyes, so the pre-flash will not be the only cause for closed
eyes.

Do you know about foucssing problems and ADI? You should really
check the focus by activating the direct manual focus (DMF) to
check the distance by slightly moving the focus ring and/or
deactivate ADI and use plain TTL instead.
With moving subjects and/or camera shake the AF system often
confirms focus, but is some meters off. If you use ADI and the
distance is too short, the flash will fire less and you get
underexposed images. Most of the time the AF is so much off, that
these images are unsharp, too, but if you keep the aperture at
4-5.6 there's more room for depth of field. Memorize the guide
numbers and check the distance to see which aperture is possible at
the current zoom setting of the flash to maximize depth of field if
you are dealing with a group of persons at different distances
(e.g. sitting round a table).

You should also check out my report on heavy use:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=3931927

Hans-Jürgen
Click to expand...
 
I have a friend who's eyes always blink from the pre-flash - it is annoying. I do find that the problem is not as bad the further away I get, which makes sense I suppose.

I've never tried, but I wonder if switching to rear synch on the flash would allow time for the eyes to re-open on slower shutter speeds? this would give the longest possible delay between preflash and flash. i don't know how fast the human eye blinks.

but I can't imagine any other way for the camera to take a flash exposure reading without firing the flash - and once the flash is fired, it is too late to set the camera and expose off that flash, cause it's already gone. Therefore, a second flash is necessary for image exposure. otherwise you fire the flash once and take what you get with the settings.
Dewdrop1 said:
Pabletto said:
Hans-Jürgen Reggel said:
The only problem I see is that people tend to blink after the
pre-flash so that you catch them with closed or partially closed
eyes.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately some people have amazingly sensitive eyes! (argh)
On my shots, I have noticed that it is specific people who almost
most of the time come out with their 'eyes wide shut'.
Having them not looking straight at the camera does help, but not
always and again it depends on HOW sensitive those eyes are.
Click to expand...
IMHO, the pre-flash problem here is a show stopper. It's beyond me
why Minolta didn't provide another way (as a menu option) to sense
light level from the flash so that pre-flash could be disabled when
it became a problem. In my case, I solved the problem by buying a
Sunpak 5000AF. With that flash, I set the camera and flask to
aperture mode and set both to f8. The flash adjusts it's power to
get the proper exposure based on the light coming from the subject
without using a pre-flash. It works very well.

I've posted this message many times on this forum. Here's why I
said that pre-flash is a show stopper. I do a lot of cat
photography and many cats blink because of the pre-falsh. When a
cat has the blinking problem, I can take 100 shots and its eyes
will be shut on every shot. So it's impossible to use the flash to
take the photo. In a dark cat shelter, that means no photos at
all. Also, you can't ask a cat not to look directly at the camera
and they are always moving. I'm not sure it would help if you
could. So you have to be ready when the pose is right.

Incidentally, I also have the Minolta 3600 flash and it does an
excellent job except for the pre-flash problem. I was forced to
buy the additonal flash or give up trying to photograph cats with
the D7i.

Dewdrop
Click to expand...
--
Minolta D7i
http://www.pbase.com/ukbuckeye
http://www.nickyandjeff.dsl.pipex.com/weather/weather.htm
 
Jeff/UK said:
but I can't imagine any other way for the camera to take a flash
exposure reading without firing the flash - and once the flash is
fired, it is too late to set the camera and expose off that flash,
cause it's already gone. Therefore, a second flash is necessary
for image exposure. otherwise you fire the flash once and take
what you get with the settings.
Click to expand...
Jeff,

Not true. I have a Nikon Coolpix 950 which does use pre-flash. It uses a sensor next to the lens (Nikon calls it TTL, but it isn't) which turns off the flash when enough light has been generated. Also, the Sunpak 5000 AF uses a sensor on the flash to control flash power. Of course, that flash isn't able to read the f stop in the camera, so must have the aperture set manually. The Nikon is fully automatic. I also use an external flash (Quantaray - Ritz Camera's brand) with the Nikon and it works great and is fully automatic. My flash exposures with the Nikon and the Minolta using the 5000AF are as good as the exposures I get with the Minolta 3600.

Dave
 
Dewdrop1 said:
Not true. I have a Nikon Coolpix 950 which does use pre-flash. It
Click to expand...
Should have read "does not use pre-flash." I always proof read my posts at least twice and sometimes more, but I still miss stuff like this. It's a good thing I didn't have a career as an editor.

Dewdrop
 
Dewdrop1 said:
...... Also, the Sunpak 5000 AF uses a sensor on the flash to control
flash power. Of course, that flash isn't able to read the f stop
in the camera, so must have the aperture set manually.......
Click to expand...
Dave,

Not true :) If you set the PZ5000AF flash to aperture mode, you have to manually set the aperture, but if you set the flash to manual mode, the flash will change aperture on flash according to aperture setting in camera; however, there is not an exact match of aperture settings between camera and flash.

Flash Aperture settings are 2.8, 3.2, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, 5.0, 5.6, 6.3, 7.1, 8.0, 9.0, 10, 11, 13, 14, 16, 18, 20, and 22.

Camera Aperture settings are 2.8, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, 5.6, 6.7, 8.0, and 9.5.

Since the flash has no aperture setting of 6.7 and 9.5, it will adjust up to next highest aperture setting (don't hold me to which way it adjusts).

The flash shows the appropriate distance (feet and meters) on the flash LCD as the aperture in the camera changes and the focal length in the camera changes. Thus, it is relative simple to change aperture in camera to match subject distance. The trick is being able to determine subject distance. Unfortunately, the camera does not have a built-in laser distance meter for determining and showing true subject distance, regardless of focal length. Maybe next year.

William
 
William,

I agree with all that you wrote. However, I use aperture mode on the 5000AF because I can't predict my shooting distance. If I said Manual, I misspoke. In that mode, the flash does not read the camera aperture. I guarantee it, because I use it all the time with different apertures set in the flash and the camera. In aperture mode, the flash power is controlled and I'm able to shoot from about 2 feet to 12 or 15 feet (my subjects are moving around quite a bit) and get good exposures. It's the closest I've been able to come to using the 3600 with pre-flash. I'm pretty happy with it. However, it appears to be more sensitive to overall scene brightness. I have to compensate when shooting a cat inside a white plastic cage or when shooting one against an almost black background. The sensor on the flash averages the light and can't do any spot metering. I don't really expect it to. If there is a better what to shoot cats without pre-flash, I haven't found it.

Dave
William West said:
Dewdrop1 said:
...... Also, the Sunpak 5000 AF uses a sensor on the flash to control
flash power. Of course, that flash isn't able to read the f stop
in the camera, so must have the aperture set manually.......
Click to expand...
Dave,

Not true :) If you set the PZ5000AF flash to aperture mode, you
have to manually set the aperture, but if you set the flash to
manual mode, the flash will change aperture on flash according to
aperture setting in camera; however, there is not an exact match of
aperture settings between camera and flash.

Flash Aperture settings are 2.8, 3.2, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, 5.0, 5.6, 6.3,
7.1, 8.0, 9.0, 10, 11, 13, 14, 16, 18, 20, and 22.

Camera Aperture settings are 2.8, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, 5.6, 6.7, 8.0, and
9.5.

Since the flash has no aperture setting of 6.7 and 9.5, it will
adjust up to next highest aperture setting (don't hold me to which
way it adjusts).

The flash shows the appropriate distance (feet and meters) on the
flash LCD as the aperture in the camera changes and the focal
length in the camera changes. Thus, it is relative simple to
change aperture in camera to match subject distance. The trick is
being able to determine subject distance. Unfortunately, the
camera does not have a built-in laser distance meter for
determining and showing true subject distance, regardless of focal
length. Maybe next year.

William
Click to expand...
 
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