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Nikon new lens, Nikon not going full 35mm frame?

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Jon Ragnarsson

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That new 12-24mm lens is interesting. Does it mean that Nikon won't go for full frame sensor? Is it really smaller than a 35mm comparable?
Will Nikon join the 4:3 consortium? :)
(Hardly, the 4:3 sensor is 17.8 x 13.4 mm)
Did Nikon look at the Olympus arguments about special digilenses?
Will Canon follow, or will they go 100% full frame?

That Fuji S2 looks even better now! (For some strange reason the S2 is the cheapest of the D60/D100/S2 here in Iceland, the SD9 hasn't arrived yet)
J.
--
http://jonr.beecee.org/gallery/
 
The new lens minimizes an objection to the current Nikon 1.5 crop DSLRs so they sell more bodies and lenses. It offers an alternative to the Kodak 14n for wide angle performance. This takes pressure off Nikon in the 14n pricepoint and lets them look at the $7K plus pricepoint for a pro camera to compete with Canon.

This lens is too slow to be targeted at the pro market, the G-mount and limited image circle make it a digital-only accessory rather than a system lens. This is not a lens that pros will want for a new pro level Nikon DSLR.

The silly concept of putting 35mm equivalent markings on the lens makes no sense. Medium format lenses aren't marked with "equivalents". Such markings would be purely for marketing purposes. Focal length is focal length, people have to adjust for all other lenses, why add a confusing extra set of numbers to one lens?
Jón Ragnarsson said:
That new 12-24mm lens is interesting. Does it mean that Nikon won't
go for full frame sensor? Is it really smaller than a 35mm
comparable?
Will Nikon join the 4:3 consortium? :)
(Hardly, the 4:3 sensor is 17.8 x 13.4 mm)
Did Nikon look at the Olympus arguments about special digilenses?
Will Canon follow, or will they go 100% full frame?
That Fuji S2 looks even better now! (For some strange reason the S2
is the cheapest of the D60/D100/S2 here in Iceland, the SD9 hasn't
arrived yet)
J.
--
http://jonr.beecee.org/gallery/
Click to expand...
--
BJN
 
BJN said:
This lens is too slow to be targeted at the pro market, the G-mount
and limited image circle make it a digital-only accessory rather
than a system lens. This is not a lens that pros will want for a
new pro level Nikon DSLR.
Click to expand...
I agree. Less than full-frame digital SLRs will continue to exist for quite a while even if the high end is all full frame. Thus this is a product that has a market and Nikon can make money on it. The interesting question is how it performs and how much it will cost. The f/4.0 strikes me as underwhelming, but probably more than adequate for its intended use (landscape, architecture, etc.) and market.

It will be intersting to see if Canon follows suit.
BJN said:
The silly concept of putting 35mm equivalent markings on the lens
makes no sense. Medium format lenses aren't marked with
"equivalents". Such markings would be purely for marketing
purposes. Focal length is focal length, people have to adjust for
all other lenses, why add a confusing extra set of numbers to one
lens?
Click to expand...
Well said.

-Z-
 
Jón Ragnarsson said:
That new 12-24mm lens is interesting. Does it mean that Nikon won't
go for full frame sensor?
Click to expand...
I remember reading a rumour when the D1X came out (published in the UK's Professional Photographer magazine I think) that the original D1 had a 11 million pixel sensor, but was addressing the pixels in groups of 4, and that the D1X addressed these in groups of 2 (hence the "rectangular" pixels of the D1X), and that at some stage they would produce a camera addressing these individually, once they solved the problem of gettng the data off the CCD quickly enough.

This news would seem to suport this theory
 
Well, I for one wish that Canon follows suit. I think it's a great middle-ground solution. One of the biggest gripes I have with the D60 is the wide angle. A lens like this (only try 2.8, not 4) would pretty much just fill that niche. They don't have to market it to any other consumers, just the ones who have the bodies already.

A large number of people have come to love the FOV crop on the D100,D60, etc. So it would allow them the best of both. Oh, maybe that's why Canon won't do it. They can be stiff like that...
 
Vincent MacNamara said:
Jón Ragnarsson said:
That new 12-24mm lens is interesting. Does it mean that Nikon won't
go for full frame sensor?
Click to expand...
I remember reading a rumour when the D1X came out (published in the
UK's Professional Photographer magazine I think) that the original
D1 had a 11 million pixel sensor, but was addressing the pixels in
groups of 4, and that the D1X addressed these in groups of 2 (hence
the "rectangular" pixels of the D1X), and that at some stage they
would produce a camera addressing these individually, once they
solved the problem of gettng the data off the CCD quickly enough.
Click to expand...
Um, OK. Pretty unlikely, but I guess that's what rumours are for. For a start, the D1 was announced in mid-1999, available early 2000. I don't think even Nikon had an 11M pixel sensor three years ago. And why waste all that chip space on the boundaries of cells that you can't even address? Also, the D1x doesn't have exactly (or even close to) twice the number of pixels of the D1.
Vincent MacNamara said:
This news would seem to suport this theory
Click to expand...
Now you've really lost me. How do you make that leap? What this news supports is Nikon's (announced) intention to continue to use a standard sensor size for its DSLR range. How do you get from that to "so the D1 sensor must really have had 11M pixels"? It doesn't make sense.

Cheers,
Pete

--
http://www.pbase.com/pcockerell
http://www.peter-cockerell.net:8080/
 
I don't believe that Nikon will abandon the full-frame idea simply because:

1) The "full-frame" sensor is a larger area sensor, and will always pack more pixels compared to smaller sensors - and this is what the professionals want, apart from image quality, more pixels to play with.

2) Current millions of Nikkor lenses out there inherited from the 35mm SLRs days will continue to be used, and their glass sizes will be fully utilized in the image transmission.

For those who think that this new lens could be used as a wide-angle lens for full-frame DSLRs or SLRs: Beware! I believe that this lens has been designed exlusively to cover the size of the smaller sensor. Using it on a full-frame sensor, or on a 35mm film, one might get unpleasant surprises around the corners and edges of the image frame, like chromatic aberrations, and distortions.

Cheers,
Andre
 
Nikon is going to lock itself into the APS format (4 lenses already in the works). Pros who buy these lenses will be locked into the small format by the price of their glass. Full-frame from Nikon looks unlikely - Kodak is a marginal player, Canon may have the digital equivalent of medium format with a heavy expensive and high-quality system from now on.

Edmund
 
Also there's a precedent to look at.

Both Nikon and Canon produced APS SLRs, but only Nikon produced restricted-coverage lenses to go with them.

While the Canon 22-55mm and 55-200mm zooms had focal lengths aimed at the APS market, they were still full-coverage 35mm lenses.

The Nikon Pronea equivalents had an APS-only coverage circle.
David Birkin said:
Z (is real) said:
It will be intersting to see if Canon follows suit.
Click to expand...
canon doesn't neeed to follow suit...it has full frame, albeit only
on the top model, but it is a start.

--
http://www2.photosig.com/userphotos.php?portfolioId=52751
Click to expand...
--
Derek
 
Edmund Ronald said:
Nikon is going to lock itself into the APS format (4 lenses already
in the works). Pros who buy these lenses will be locked into the
small format by the price of their glass. Full-frame from Nikon
looks unlikely - Kodak is a marginal player, Canon may have the
digital equivalent of medium format with a heavy expensive and
high-quality system from now on.
Click to expand...
Maybe I am missing something, but isn't it so that you can simply stick a 35mm intended Nikkor on a 35mm full frame Nikon dSLR? I see no reason why Nikon will not build a 35mm body.

--
Sander [Fuji602 SonyP1]
http://www.azrifel.org
http://www.pbase.com/azrifel/
 
Andre Remoe said:
For those who think that this new lens could be used as a
wide-angle lens for full-frame DSLRs or SLRs: Beware! I believe
that this lens has been designed exlusively to cover the size of
the smaller sensor. Using it on a full-frame sensor, or on a 35mm
film, one might get unpleasant surprises around the corners and
edges of the image frame, like chromatic aberrations, and
distortions.
Click to expand...
I think what you get in the corners and maybe even the sides, will be nothing. Just darkness as there isn't any glass there to bring the light in. Bit like using a fisheye.

If you really wanted to use it on a full frame/35mm it may make some interesting photo's though :-)

Either way it's still a great solution to getting wideangle on 1.5x. I do hope Canon bring one out for the 1.6x crop so I don't have to carry around a high chunk of L glass.

Simon.

http://www.pbase.com/heath1s
 
The cost of full frame chips will not drop quickly because of yield issues (less chips per wafer, and higher % of defective chips per wafer). Nikon is very smart. These APS sized sensors and matching lenses will be targeted at the pro-sumer market. They will be able to make wide, small, faster and cheaper lenses for the pro-sumers. The pros will get a full frame D2X for $7k or $8k. The rest of us will get APS sized D200, D300 etc. The only drawback is that these lenses will never work on a full frame body. As for the 4/3rds consortium, Nikon seems to be killing it before it gets off the ground. I can use all of my existing lenses, and buy the new dedicated lenses as well. Whats not to like?

Just my opinion - Sean
 
Interesting how the announcement of this lens has caused so much speculation on what Nikon will or won't do in the future. I doubt seriously that Nikon will abandon full frame sensors for the pro market. Instead I see them bringing out a lower priced DSLR with the smaller sensor size. They've seen how well the D100 has been received and may want to lower the price to the 5700 level to get even more people in the DSLR market while still catering to the professional with a full frame camera. Of course, the above is purely a SWAG, but time will tell.

David Goerndt
 
I think pros want to protect their investment in lenses, hence the demand for a full frame camera. But a CMOS or CCD is NOT film and as Nikon and others have demonstrated, a 35mm chip is unecessary to produce high quality images. As a pro who has come to appreciate the size and convenience of the Minolta 7i, I'm all for dedicated camera and lens systems. Nikon seems to be moving in that direction, as is the 4/3 standard. I guess I'll just have to sell my obsolete film equipment. I imagine it's the same dilema stable owners had to contend with when deciding to accomodate automobiles.
David Goerndt said:
Interesting how the announcement of this lens has caused so much
speculation on what Nikon will or won't do in the future. I doubt
seriously that Nikon will abandon full frame sensors for the pro
market. Instead I see them bringing out a lower priced DSLR with
the smaller sensor size. They've seen how well the D100 has been
received and may want to lower the price to the 5700 level to get
even more people in the DSLR market while still catering to the
professional with a full frame camera. Of course, the above is
purely a SWAG, but time will tell.

David Goerndt
Click to expand...
--
Jim K
JimK Photographics
 
Exactly my thoughts. It just seems to be good business sense. The market is pretty saturated with D60/100's and other FOV cropped cameras. With the wait lists still in effect, it will become even more so. If you could make an extra 1 or 2 lenses that probably a third of the users would want to get, wouldn't it make good sense to do so?

I was excited about the 4/3rds development, but I think this is a fine solution for me as I would rather stick with a Canon/Nikon and have the option of the existing equipment.

Jonathan
SeanU said:
The cost of full frame chips will not drop quickly because of yield
issues (less chips per wafer, and higher % of defective chips per
wafer). Nikon is very smart. These APS sized sensors and matching
lenses will be targeted at the pro-sumer market. They will be able
to make wide, small, faster and cheaper lenses for the pro-sumers.
The pros will get a full frame D2X for $7k or $8k. The rest of us
will get APS sized D200, D300 etc. The only drawback is that these
lenses will never work on a full frame body. As for the 4/3rds
consortium, Nikon seems to be killing it before it gets off the
ground. I can use all of my existing lenses, and buy the new
dedicated lenses as well. Whats not to like?

Just my opinion - Sean
Click to expand...
 
David Birkin said:
Z (is real) said:
It will be intersting to see if Canon follows suit.
Click to expand...
canon doesn't neeed to follow suit...it has full frame, albeit only
on the top model, but it is a start.
Click to expand...
The EOS-1Ds has about as much impact on this area as Nikon's introducing a special lens line to support existing and future reduced image area digitals has on their perogative to intro a full-frame pro digital. Namely very little.

It is all about whether there will be enough D30/D60 class cameras to allow making money on such a product. (Though Sigma is likely already targeting the business...) I do not expect Caon's entire line of digital SLRs to be full-frame for quite a long time.

-Z-
 
Good observation. If Canon doesn't follow suit, I wouldn't be surprised to see a similar lens from a third party. I guess that depends on the user base with crop factor DSLRs.
Derek Clarke said:
Both Nikon and Canon produced APS SLRs, but only Nikon produced
restricted-coverage lenses to go with them.

While the Canon 22-55mm and 55-200mm zooms had focal lengths aimed
at the APS market, they were still full-coverage 35mm lenses.

The Nikon Pronea equivalents had an APS-only coverage circle.
David Birkin said:
Z (is real) said:
It will be intersting to see if Canon follows suit.
Click to expand...
canon doesn't neeed to follow suit...it has full frame, albeit only
on the top model, but it is a start.

--
http://www2.photosig.com/userphotos.php?portfolioId=52751
Click to expand...
--
Derek
Click to expand...
--
BJN
 
Image quality from 6mp DSLRs is reckoned to be comparable to 35mm film, so I don't think all pros are going to need more pixels or bigger sensors. Pros who are using MF will want to keep using MF because even a FF DSLR can't match it.

Iain West
SeanU said:
The pros will get a full frame D2X for $7k or $8k. The rest of us
will get APS sized D200, D300 etc. The only drawback is that these
Click to expand...
 
This is quite an interesting thread. It seems to me that Nikon might be dividing now the camera and lens market into 3 categories: The consumer, the prosumer (amateurs), and the professional market. I believe that most people participating in this forums are either prosumers or professionals. The normal "consumers" hardly know that this website exists.

My guess is that the prosumer market, when very well defined, like the launch of this new lens, will not attract enough amateurs - and definitely not professionals. The reason is simple. Both amateurs and professionals have only one goal: To get professional results. This can only be achieved by having a very good talent, and professional equipment.

But maybe the prosumer market might attract normal consumers, believing that this is a professional market??? Time will show.

Andre
 
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