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Zeiss 'pop'
- Thread starter marco1974
- Start date
O
oneANT
Guest
The boxes they come in have never been compared. Although I do expect the zeiss boxes will have sharper corners (grin). I think the Zeiss box is printed in Japan but I'll try to compose myself should I discover its printed in Canada.
Guidenet
Forum Pro
I'll check the box.
I'm thinking, musing, wanting, debating the purchase of a Zeiss Ikon rangefinder film camera. I like the little Bessa which is essentially the same camera at a third the price or so, and I know that they are both made by Cosina, but I still want the Zeiss for some unfathomable reason.The Zeiss, I have heard, has a better build quality. I've also heard that Zeiss's input caused Cosina to have a large base rangefinder, even exceeding Leica, for more accurate focusing. Is this worth that much more than the same camera is a different shape and name that takes the same lenses and made by the same company? I don't know, but it's probably the way I go.
I'll buy the Zeiss Ikon and a used Leica Summicron 50 f/2 or the Cosina made Zeiss 50 f/2 in M mount. Whatdayathink?I wonder what portion of the cost is for the word Zeiss and goes to increasing the price to the consumer. Somehow, it's kind of cooler to wear the Zeiss Ikon logo over Bessa too.
The same goes for Zeiss lenses for Nikon. I wonder how much of their high price tag is paying Zeiss in Germany for that name to be on the lens. Cosina outright bought the rights to Voigtlander which also was a great German photographic company at one time. They probably don't pay royalties for the name use or not as much. The Voigtlander Nokton 58mm f/1.4 only costs $449 for Nikon mount.
I wonder if this lens has the not so famous Voigtlander "POP"
http://www.adorama.com/VT5814NK.html
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Cheers, Craig
Follow me on Twitter @craighardingsr : Equipment in Profile via Plan
RodluvanII
Senior Member
Am I to understand the absence of a reply as a no (i.e. you haven't used Zeiss lenses)?
marco1974
Senior Member
You obviously didn't like the pics - I have no problem with that, they certainly aren't works of art, nor are they among my best.
I just thought they did showcase a certain endearing contrast and "glow", but then again it may just be me and my "new toy sindrome".
In the end, it's no big deal either way - as one contributor said, it's all about the photographer, lenses and cameras are just tools. You pick what YOU like and feel comfortable using, and off you go shooting
Cheers,
Marco
I just thought they did showcase a certain endearing contrast and "glow", but then again it may just be me and my "new toy sindrome".
In the end, it's no big deal either way - as one contributor said, it's all about the photographer, lenses and cameras are just tools. You pick what YOU like and feel comfortable using, and off you go shooting
Cheers,
Marco
O
oneANT
Guest
They say the Ikon's viewfinder is a dream, much improved over the M's.I'll check the box.
I think I'm going to be you when I grow up (grin)The Zeiss, I have heard, has a better build quality. I've also heard that Zeiss's input caused Cosina to have a large base rangefinder, even exceeding Leica, for more accurate focusing. Is this worth that much more than the same camera is a different shape and name that takes the same lenses and made by the same company? I don't know, but it's probably the way I go.
The cron 50 used is fetching high prices these days and there are more than a few that prefer zeiss glass over the leica but I'm not sure about the 50mm FL though, I know they rave about some of the others in M mount.
I know of a fellow at FM that traded in all his dslr gear for the Ikon. I'll go see if he looks happy or not. (rsolti13) and come back and tell you how he's getting on.
As much fun as your choice will be ...I love the contrasts with anything else you might own ...going from one system to another is like having chocolate after chilli and you can taste each better than just the one on its own.
Now apply this same logic to a Nikon lens and price ...the 18-200 is US$1128 in Australia ...how much of that you you think is for the name because it sure aint for the lens. Here the 50/1.4 is US$748 A plastic case, a little motor and a couple of bits of glass. What happened to the 50 being one of the cheapest to manufacture.I wonder what portion of the cost is for the word Zeiss and goes to increasing the price to the consumer. Somehow, it's kind of cooler to wear the Zeiss Ikon logo over Bessa too.
The 35G and the 24 must be hand polished by nuns.
I know every Zeiss owner's reaction to this, they immediately know what the author looks like ...do you remember the pic someone posted here once of a donkeys ass ...its something like that.
and yet in plastic and in much (MUCH) larger quantities the Nikkor 50/1.4 is US$748.
Its an OK lens, I had it and the 40Ultron ... http://cameraquest.com/Voigt_SL2.htm
But yes the 'not so famous Voigtländer pop' ...is a good description and they have it in loads (grin)
I'll never stop loving film, so many arguments against film but it looks like this and nothing like any other pic in my gallery.
I'm thinking a little less exotic than you ..a Nikon FA with my zeiss kit. This one is from an F90 with a crappy zoom and I developed the film myself ...its like making bread, all that work and fuss and yes you could buy it in a bag at the supermarket and yet Ive heard that fishing is a pastime ...imagine that.
Guidenet
Forum Pro
Wow, that's a beautiful photo you put up. Thank you.
Yeah, I still shoot film some. I shut down my dark room over 15 years ago and just started it back up. Since the kids were long gone, I converted a small bedroom over. I had it done right with plumbers and what not.
The Nikon FM and your Zeiss collection would truly be a nice little kit.
--
Cheers, Craig
Follow me on Twitter @craighardingsr : Equipment in Profile via Plan
Yeah, I still shoot film some. I shut down my dark room over 15 years ago and just started it back up. Since the kids were long gone, I converted a small bedroom over. I had it done right with plumbers and what not.
The Nikon FM and your Zeiss collection would truly be a nice little kit.
--
Cheers, Craig
Follow me on Twitter @craighardingsr : Equipment in Profile via Plan
O
oneANT
Guest
You are just enjoying your new lens ...Its OK, all the zeiss owners know what it is you are seeing, we went through this too.You obviously didn't like the pics - I have no problem with that, they certainly aren't works of art, nor are they among my best.
I just thought they did showcase a certain endearing contrast and "glow", but then again it may just be me and my "new toy sindrome".
In the end, it's no big deal either way - as one contributor said, it's all about the photographer, lenses and cameras are just tools. You pick what YOU like and feel comfortable using, and off you go shooting
My favorite post was a fella that took a pic of the ugliest dead trees from his back door...awful pic it was and yet he had to post it because he had never seen them look so good, was hilarious and he got shot many times for it but we all knew what he meant.
I hope you plan to post some more, the zf25 is a fun lens.
Marco, the Zeiss[es] are exceptional. But IMO the subjectYou obviously didn't like the pics - I have no problem with that, they certainly aren't works of art, nor are they among my best.
I just thought they did showcase a certain endearing contrast and "glow", but then again it may just be me and my "new toy sindrome".
In the end, it's no big deal either way - as one contributor said, it's all about the photographer, lenses and cameras are just tools. You pick what YOU like and feel comfortable using, and off you go shooting
Cheers,
Marco
My 2c.
--
Warmest regards,
mblg
O
oneANT
Guest
We've had some here on dpr go back to film and they have never been heard from since ...how awesome is that. From the last fellow all I heard was his surprise over the tonality in his pictures (some horses), he was beyond reach and in rapture...
Congrats on the setup ...you'll get nothing but envy from me. Hopefully I'll join you soon.
Guidenet
Forum Pro
You know, I just missed it, the smell of chemicals, the trays, the contact prints, dodging with a stick and bob.. all of it. Fortunately both camera stores in town support darkrooms with fairly nice selections. I can even buy 5x7 sheet film or order 8x10 which I'm not going to do.
I'm considering the purchase of a scanner which can scan 5x7 or 4x5 possitive reversal or negative film, but the printing is so much fun.
I also get to use my old Olympus OM2 kit as well as my old Nikons and Pentax's. I am particularly fond of an old Pentax H3 and a 105 lens. All mechanical camera with no meter at all. Automatic means you **** the diaphram before focusing. heheheh
I just started the setup this spring and the work was just finished this month. I've been using it before it was finished a little though. I took the old Toyo out for a spin two weeks ago to the Big Cypress Swamp on Labor Day. Clyde Butcher was having his annual muck about with a lot of large format people. It was fun but too many mosquitos.
http://www.clydebutcher.com/
I"m looking for that perfect scene. I want an interesting piece of driftwood really close with the bay and islands off to the distance. Maybe palms overhanging. I know that scene is there, but this old phart has to get there.
--
Cheers, Craig
Follow me on Twitter @craighardingsr : Equipment in Profile via Plan
I'm considering the purchase of a scanner which can scan 5x7 or 4x5 possitive reversal or negative film, but the printing is so much fun.
I also get to use my old Olympus OM2 kit as well as my old Nikons and Pentax's. I am particularly fond of an old Pentax H3 and a 105 lens. All mechanical camera with no meter at all. Automatic means you **** the diaphram before focusing. heheheh
I just started the setup this spring and the work was just finished this month. I've been using it before it was finished a little though. I took the old Toyo out for a spin two weeks ago to the Big Cypress Swamp on Labor Day. Clyde Butcher was having his annual muck about with a lot of large format people. It was fun but too many mosquitos.
http://www.clydebutcher.com/
I"m looking for that perfect scene. I want an interesting piece of driftwood really close with the bay and islands off to the distance. Maybe palms overhanging. I know that scene is there, but this old phart has to get there.
--
Cheers, Craig
Follow me on Twitter @craighardingsr : Equipment in Profile via Plan
larrywilson
Veteran Member
Yes, the Zeiss 25 is fun. This lens does not test out well for brick walls or other flat things, but is a wonderful lens. I had the 25 and its the perfect focal length for landscape stuff and even good for some closer work. Its built like a tank and has a smooth as butter focusing ring. Back to manual focusing is great, just like old times ha ha!!!! I don't find the lens lacking in far corners of the image because usually this does not concern me. Enjoy this lens, its just a fun lens that can produce beautiful images.
Larry
Larry
Guidenet
Forum Pro
I'll answer that. Yes, I've used Zeiss lenses and yes, several over the years. I'm not sure what was meant by Teflon coating, but that's no big deal. I'm not going to poison the well and invalidate the rest of his opinion nor poke fun at it.
I'm not sure what you are getting at. If it is to demand him to prove he is or isn't a Zeiss expert in order to have a valid opinion, I think that's a reach.
Modern lenses with the name Zeiss come on cell phones, point and shoots, range finders and SLR as well as other formats including Cine. Zeiss manufactures not many of them. The one thing most have in common is an exceptional build quality. As to "Pop" I think it's just a fun word to use. I'm not sure it means much because a compelling image is created by the photographer both in the camera and in the digital darkroom.
I think if one spends a lot on a lens, people like to start adding superlatives that don't mean much like Pop, 3D look, and Magic Quality. I do it too. I think certain legendary lenses have a sort of magical quality. I don't think an entire line or brand of lenses has this as some Zeiss owners seem to profess. I don't think just because Sony calls a lens Zeiss or Cosina does, it means something above and beyond the better Niikon, Canon and Pentax lenses. The name ensures a quality build, by and large. To ensure brand integrity, I'm sure Zeiss of Germany maintains enough control to require a quality build from the actual preople who make and distribute the lenses.
As I mentioned in another part of this thread, I intend to soon purchase a new Zeiss Ikon rangefinder just for fun. I'll probably mount a Zeiss / Cosina lens on it. I'll probably go with the 50 planar, but don't know. I expect it to be a fun and quality camera but if the images start Popping and 3Ding, I'll be surprised to say the least
--
Cheers, Craig
Follow me on Twitter @craighardingsr : Equipment in Profile via Plan
Guidenet
Forum Pro
Marco, I actually enjoyed the images. You just started a Chevy - Ford type argument, you know. Don't worry about it. We all love new glass and get a kick out of using it.
But we all know it's not the glass or the camera. We know it is you that creates a good or compelling image. I liked yours. Keep them coming.
I remember when I got my 85 f/1.4 AFD. I took a picture of an old half dead rose branch just to see what it looked like. It was a grey rainy day, and that branch was closest thing to my back door. I popped the card into the reader and immediately downloaded and oogled over how pretty it was. I understand.
I saved that silly image. At least yours are interesting and good to look at, unlike mine.
--
Cheers, Craig
Follow me on Twitter @craighardingsr : Equipment in Profile via Plan
But we all know it's not the glass or the camera. We know it is you that creates a good or compelling image. I liked yours. Keep them coming.
I remember when I got my 85 f/1.4 AFD. I took a picture of an old half dead rose branch just to see what it looked like. It was a grey rainy day, and that branch was closest thing to my back door. I popped the card into the reader and immediately downloaded and oogled over how pretty it was. I understand.
I saved that silly image. At least yours are interesting and good to look at, unlike mine.
--
Cheers, Craig
Follow me on Twitter @craighardingsr : Equipment in Profile via Plan
RodluvanII
Senior Member
I don't see how this is such a 'hot potato'. An opinion without experience or knowledge is commonly known as a prejudice. Would you defend prejudice this vigorously? I did not jump on him calling him a liar, I asked if he had used the lenses he had such comprehensive opinions about, and what more chose to display them as facts.
I'm not trying to be cute or funny or polemic here, I'm simply rather tired with people getting into brandwars and forming an opinion without haven any first hand experience and instead compensates with regurgitating half-truth they've seem to recall having read on the internet somewhere and I'm especially tired of people forming said opinion on that premise and chose to air it on forums as if they carried any weight what so ever.
There are plenty of skilled and knowledgeable people here of which everyone take great care not to have opinions on stuff they have no personal experience with.
For example I haven't uttered a syllable about the nikkor 1.4/50AFS or the 18-200 DX VR etc without making it very clear that it is nothing more than a paraphrase of what someone else have said and I don't know the validity of that statement.
It's like this:
If 100 people use lens X and 10 say it sucks and 90 say it is great (all things being equal) a logical human being will deduce that it's probably pretty great.
If 10 people use the lens, 1 say is sucks, 9 say it is great, 9532 people regurgitate what the the first guy said with various forms of distortions and iterations and 34 people regurgitate what the the second guy said with various forms of distortions and iterations what is anyone to believe?
These forums like most, is 10% users and 90% regurgitators. Especially when it comes to such a relatively small line of lenses as the ZF's.
You see my beef?
I'm not trying to be cute or funny or polemic here, I'm simply rather tired with people getting into brandwars and forming an opinion without haven any first hand experience and instead compensates with regurgitating half-truth they've seem to recall having read on the internet somewhere and I'm especially tired of people forming said opinion on that premise and chose to air it on forums as if they carried any weight what so ever.
There are plenty of skilled and knowledgeable people here of which everyone take great care not to have opinions on stuff they have no personal experience with.
For example I haven't uttered a syllable about the nikkor 1.4/50AFS or the 18-200 DX VR etc without making it very clear that it is nothing more than a paraphrase of what someone else have said and I don't know the validity of that statement.
It's like this:
If 100 people use lens X and 10 say it sucks and 90 say it is great (all things being equal) a logical human being will deduce that it's probably pretty great.
If 10 people use the lens, 1 say is sucks, 9 say it is great, 9532 people regurgitate what the the first guy said with various forms of distortions and iterations and 34 people regurgitate what the the second guy said with various forms of distortions and iterations what is anyone to believe?
These forums like most, is 10% users and 90% regurgitators. Especially when it comes to such a relatively small line of lenses as the ZF's.
You see my beef?
I'll answer that. Yes, I've used Zeiss lenses and yes, several over the years. I'm not sure what was meant by Teflon coating, but that's no big deal. I'm not going to poison the well and invalidate the rest of his opinion nor poke fun at it.
I'm not sure what you are getting at. If it is to demand him to prove he is or isn't a Zeiss expert in order to have a valid opinion, I think that's a reach.
Modern lenses with the name Zeiss come on cell phones, point and shoots, range finders and SLR as well as other formats including Cine. Zeiss manufactures not many of them. The one thing most have in common is an exceptional build quality. As to "Pop" I think it's just a fun word to use. I'm not sure it means much because a compelling image is created by the photographer both in the camera and in the digital darkroom.
I think if one spends a lot on a lens, people like to start adding superlatives that don't mean much like Pop, 3D look, and Magic Quality. I do it too. I think certain legendary lenses have a sort of magical quality. I don't think an entire line or brand of lenses has this as some Zeiss owners seem to profess. I don't think just because Sony calls a lens Zeiss or Cosina does, it means something above and beyond the better Niikon, Canon and Pentax lenses. The name ensures a quality build, by and large. To ensure brand integrity, I'm sure Zeiss of Germany maintains enough control to require a quality build from the actual preople who make and distribute the lenses.
As I mentioned in another part of this thread, I intend to soon purchase a new Zeiss Ikon rangefinder just for fun. I'll probably mount a Zeiss / Cosina lens on it. I'll probably go with the 50 planar, but don't know. I expect it to be a fun and quality camera but if the images start Popping and 3Ding, I'll be surprised to say the least
--
Cheers, Craig
Follow me on Twitter @craighardingsr : Equipment in Profile via Plan
Guidenet
Forum Pro
I see your beef. I really do, but I think it is pretty obvious when an opinion is based on experience and when it is not. I usually state whether or not I've owned, used, borrowed or not tried the product I'm talking about. I think most people here that can afford a Zeiss lens are probably smart enough to filter the forum posts about it. If you come on and say something about owning a 21mm Zeiss and your experiece is this and that, most of us would consider it valid and credible. On the other hand, people saying the images posted don't look special and they doubt the lens is either, are only as valid as that opinion with no particular experience.
Personally, I'd not consider a Zeiss product until I'd studied the Zeiss website carefully, maybe borrowed or rented the particular model I was considering, and asking people I knew who owned it. It costs too much not to do your due dilligence.
On the other hand, I purchased the new 50 f/1.8 on pure impulse with zero research. It costs only $219 and that's chump change to many of us. If the Zeiss 21 cost that, I'd buy it the same way. Now how do I know that particular Zeiss lens is damn good? Because of others opinions, not because I've owned it or even picked it up. I know its reputation on these forums and others. I've read reviews and seen tests. I've talked to friends that have it, but it's not from personal experience. My good opinion of it is also predjudice, but you'd probably not mind it whereas if I said bad things about the 25 based on that with the same lack of experience, you'd probably not like it.
Everyone here has opinions of items. Some are more valid than others, but they all hold some point of validity and you can generaly tell which is which. It doesn't need the testosterone battle that sometimes follows. Had you answered something like, "Had you tried this lens, you might find it better than your opinion" then tell your experience and put up an image or two; I'd have applauded and not said a thing. Maybe I'm a sap, but I just try to keep it on a friendly basis. We're all photographers, you and I, and are in it for the passion and pleasure we derive.
Whenever I catch myself saying something rough or mean spirited, and I do when I have a beef, I end up not posting for a while because I don't feel good about it. So, I am trying to only say possitive things to others. That's all. I don't mean to say anything against you either, and I do understand your beef. I really do.
But, I'm known for having a big mouth and over presenting my ideas, so I'm not one to talk. I took this over Laborday and it reminds me of me sometimes.
--
Cheers, Craig
Follow me on Twitter @craighardingsr : Equipment in Profile via Plan
Personally, I'd not consider a Zeiss product until I'd studied the Zeiss website carefully, maybe borrowed or rented the particular model I was considering, and asking people I knew who owned it. It costs too much not to do your due dilligence.
On the other hand, I purchased the new 50 f/1.8 on pure impulse with zero research. It costs only $219 and that's chump change to many of us. If the Zeiss 21 cost that, I'd buy it the same way. Now how do I know that particular Zeiss lens is damn good? Because of others opinions, not because I've owned it or even picked it up. I know its reputation on these forums and others. I've read reviews and seen tests. I've talked to friends that have it, but it's not from personal experience. My good opinion of it is also predjudice, but you'd probably not mind it whereas if I said bad things about the 25 based on that with the same lack of experience, you'd probably not like it.
Everyone here has opinions of items. Some are more valid than others, but they all hold some point of validity and you can generaly tell which is which. It doesn't need the testosterone battle that sometimes follows. Had you answered something like, "Had you tried this lens, you might find it better than your opinion" then tell your experience and put up an image or two; I'd have applauded and not said a thing. Maybe I'm a sap, but I just try to keep it on a friendly basis. We're all photographers, you and I, and are in it for the passion and pleasure we derive.
Whenever I catch myself saying something rough or mean spirited, and I do when I have a beef, I end up not posting for a while because I don't feel good about it. So, I am trying to only say possitive things to others. That's all. I don't mean to say anything against you either, and I do understand your beef. I really do.
But, I'm known for having a big mouth and over presenting my ideas, so I'm not one to talk.
I took this over Laborday and it reminds me of me sometimes.
--
Cheers, Craig
Follow me on Twitter @craighardingsr : Equipment in Profile via Plan
O
oneANT
Guest
...is this because he is such a pretty fellow? I hope its not because he poops where he walks.I took this over Laborday and it reminds me of me sometimes.
Guidenet
Forum Pro
No doggonit. It because of the big mouth. and, I do have that, I admit.
--
Cheers, Craig
Follow me on Twitter @craighardingsr : Equipment in Profile via Plan
and, I do have that, I admit. --
Cheers, Craig
Follow me on Twitter @craighardingsr : Equipment in Profile via Plan
RodluvanII
Senior Member
I bet you have a big lens as well, you dog you.
No doggonit. It because of the big mouth.
--
Cheers, Craig
Follow me on Twitter @craighardingsr : Equipment in Profile via Plan
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