500f4

dennismullen · Aug 26, 2011

MCromer said:
So they explained why they didn't release it with the Alpha 77. The tsunami.

But pretty dumb of them not to release it a couple years ago.

I Agree!

Some people are still waiting to purchase a long lens because this is always promised as just around the corner.

Cheers,
--

"Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin.
You can see larger versions of my pictures at http://www.dennismullen.com .

Ross Warner · Sep 19, 2011

Send me an email if you are interested in a used 600 f/4 or 400 f/4.5 Minolta lens!

-Ross Warner
[email protected]

RussAdams · Sep 19, 2011

Frenske said:
IMO Birds evolved from dinosaurs who laid eggs so the egg came before the chicken. Now I am not sure which the 500mm f4 is, the chicken or the egg?

--
http://frenske.zenfolio.com

Pssssst: If dinosaurs laid eggs... where did that first dinosaur egg come from??? I think you've just moved the circular argument back a 100,000 years... ROFL

Russ

Hmmm: Tyrannosaurus Teriyaki?

tom55604 · Sep 19, 2011

Mark,

I agree with your comments. I just don't think Sony is willing to have a prestige loss leader, although if they want the high end market (particularly wild life and sports photographers) they will have to bite the bullet someday.

The common mantra is that Sony didn't do as well as they planned with the A700 and the A900, although I haven't seen anything to back that up. So they didn't release an upgraded OVF A700 and instead tried to build up their market share with lots and lots of entry and midlevel gadget cams. They appear to have had some success with that. And by getting the new users used to the poor APS-C entry/midlevel OVFs they pave the way for going all electronic.

The next step is to get those who were willing to spend less than $1000 to upgrade to A700 prices. I actually think the A65/A77 strategy is somewhat aimed at determining what is the price/feature/pain point for their users (and what will cross whatever threshold of success they have set.) Its not a bad strategy for a new system camera company.

But its a big jump from $1400 to $8k or higher. People who are willing to spend that much are usually the dreaded "advanced amateur" who may already have an old version of a similar lens or have a need to upgrade from the 70-400. I believe a good number of the evil Minolta users would have been a significant part of that market. But that's a lot of $$ to "invest" on the chance that Sony will continue to provide the camera you will want long into the future.

If the A77 is a big success (how big it has to be only Sony knows) I think we will see the 500 f/4. If its not big enough, I think Sony will keep it in a waiting status until the 9x.

I am surprised, however, that they haven't made some operating prototypes and leaked them in order to start the rumor buzz that they had with the A77. One or 2 silver lenses on the sidelines at a soccer game or other sporting event sponsored by Sony would go a long way to getting the interest up as a way of gauging interest.

tom

tom55604 · Sep 19, 2011

cyainparadise said:
cgarrard said:

with the 9 series stuff next year. Maybe? - speculation alert- speculation alert-

Paul Genge gave a reasonable explanation why it hasn't seen the light of day yet- basically, tsunami.

Carl

Click to expand...

But, the lens was first show something like 5 years ago.

But how many people buying the A290 do you think would have bought it?

tom

dennismullen · Sep 19, 2011

Let's not forget there are some very nice Sigma lenses like the 500/4.5 APO EX DG that are an alternative.

Cheers,
--

"Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin.
You can see larger versions of my pictures at http://www.dennismullen.com .

the_rascal · Sep 19, 2011

with non HSM, for same price as the Canikon version WITH HSM...

hard to find new, barely impossible in used...

and no 120-300/2,8 OS announced yet... it would be a bestseller given the Sony 300 price...

ET2 · Sep 19, 2011

Mark VB said:
While obviously there are now a few more lenses coming, whether or not the are better than the mediocre performance of the first group of lenses remains to be seen (presumably the CZ 24/1.8 and 50/1.8 will be of good quality).

The lenses were fine for kit

E 18-55 isn't worse than Sal18-55

and E 18-250 is clearly better than SAL 18250

The new E 30mm macro looks better than A mount 30mm macro

The E mount 50mm has stabilization.

cyainparadise · Sep 19, 2011

tom said:
Mark,

I agree with your comments. I just don't think Sony is willing to have a prestige loss leader, although if they want the high end market (particularly wild life and sports photographers) they will have to bite the bullet someday.

The common mantra is that Sony didn't do as well as they planned with the A700 and the A900, although I haven't seen anything to back that up. So they didn't release an upgraded OVF A700 and instead tried to build up their market share with lots and lots of entry and midlevel gadget cams. They appear to have had some success with that. And by getting the new users used to the poor APS-C entry/midlevel OVFs they pave the way for going all electronic.

The next step is to get those who were willing to spend less than $1000 to upgrade to A700 prices. I actually think the A65/A77 strategy is somewhat aimed at determining what is the price/feature/pain point for their users (and what will cross whatever threshold of success they have set.) Its not a bad strategy for a new system camera company.

But its a big jump from $1400 to $8k or higher. People who are willing to spend that much are usually the dreaded "advanced amateur" who may already have an old version of a similar lens or have a need to upgrade from the 70-400. I believe a good number of the evil Minolta users would have been a significant part of that market. But that's a lot of $$ to "invest" on the chance that Sony will continue to provide the camera you will want long into the future.

If the A77 is a big success (how big it has to be only Sony knows) I think we will see the 500 f/4. If its not big enough, I think Sony will keep it in a waiting status until the 9x.

I am surprised, however, that they haven't made some operating prototypes and leaked them in order to start the rumor buzz that they had with the A77. One or 2 silver lenses on the sidelines at a soccer game or other sporting event sponsored by Sony would go a long way to getting the interest up as a way of gauging interest.

tom

If the A700 and A900/A850, were not the success that Sony was looking for, Sony only has themselves to blame. The typical users of this level of camera, more so the FF models, are looking for more of a system then what Sony has out. And, it's not just lenses they are looking for. Sony has not addressed the lack of a true macro flash, sticking with their macrolight. It would be easy for Sony to re-release the Minolta macro flashes.

As for Sony wanting to start a buzz for the 500mm f/4, by being on the sidelines. Sony does have a mock-up or two lying around. The front has glass, but it's unknown if the rest is wood. They could just mount it on a body and act like they're taking pictures. As long as no one gets too close, no one would know whether it's real or not.

cyainparadise · Sep 19, 2011

tom said:
cyainparadise said:

cgarrard said:

with the 9 series stuff next year. Maybe? - speculation alert- speculation alert-

Paul Genge gave a reasonable explanation why it hasn't seen the light of day yet- basically, tsunami.

Carl

Click to expand...

But, the lens was first show something like 5 years ago.

Click to expand...

But how many people buying the A290 do you think would have bought it?

tom

It doesn't really matter, as the lens would probably be produced 'on order'. Nikon and Canon don't mass produce their most expensive lenses. They are made as they get an order. In fact, I remember reading about some rich Saudi prince who would special order expensive lenses that are basically one of a kind, just like they get custom Ferrari and Lamborghini cars made for them to drive around the kingdom.

TrojMacReady · Sep 19, 2011

cyainparadise said:
As for Sony wanting to start a buzz for the 500mm f/4, by being on the sidelines. Sony does have a mock-up or two lying around. The front has glass, but it's unknown if the rest is wood.

One of the last 2 prototypes was a working model.

cyainparadise · Sep 19, 2011

If you check out this site, you'll see a Canon 1700mm lens that cost $120,000. I don't think Canon produced it in any quantities., even to people who bought their most expensive DSLR body.

http://www.crestock.com/blog/technology/the-worlds-most-extreme-photography-equipment-117.aspx

andre700 · Sep 19, 2011

cyainparadise said:
If the A700 and A900/A850, were not the success that Sony was looking for, Sony only has themselves to blame. The typical users of this level of camera, more so the FF models, are looking for more of a system then what Sony has out. And, it's not just lenses they are looking for. Sony has not addressed the lack of a true macro flash, sticking with their macrolight.

Do agree with you, the stuff around the system is just as important. However, sony do have macro flash, and it's actually a quit nice one:

http://www.sony.co.uk/product/dsa-flashes---lights/hvl-mt24am

cyainparadise said:
As for Sony wanting to start a buzz for the 500mm f/4, by being on the sidelines. Sony does have a mock-up or two lying around.

Would like to see this lens launched soon, the wait have been to long, I have more or less given up to ever see this one.

--
André F

chadmarek · Sep 19, 2011

andre700 said:
andre700 said:

If the A700 and A900/A850, were not the success that Sony was looking for, Sony only has themselves to blame. The typical users of this level of camera, more so the FF models, are looking for more of a system then what Sony has out. And, it's not just lenses they are looking for. Sony has not addressed the lack of a true macro flash, sticking with their macrolight.

Click to expand...

Do agree with you, the stuff around the system is just as important. However, sony do have macro flash, and it's actually a quit nice one:

http://www.sony.co.uk/product/dsa-flashes---lights/hvl-mt24am

Not the same as a ring light, like Minolta had. This undit has very, very different effects.

chad

andre700 · Sep 19, 2011

chadmarek said:
andre700 said:

chadmarek said:

If the A700 and A900/A850, were not the success that Sony was looking for, Sony only has themselves to blame. The typical users of this level of camera, more so the FF models, are looking for more of a system then what Sony has out. And, it's not just lenses they are looking for. Sony has not addressed the lack of a true macro flash, sticking with their macrolight.

Click to expand...

Do agree with you, the stuff around the system is just as important. However, sony do have macro flash, and it's actually a quit nice one:

http://www.sony.co.uk/product/dsa-flashes---lights/hvl-mt24am

Click to expand...

Not the same as a ring light, like Minolta had. This undit has very, very different effects.

chad

quite correct, but the statement was "Sony has not addressed the lack of a true macro flash". This is a true macro flash - even if it is different from a true ring flash. The twin flash is way more flexible, but can not replace a ring flash. Shure, sony should have both alternatives. I just thought it was an idea to know what's in the system before complaining about whats not...

--
André F

tom55604 · Sep 20, 2011

cyainparadise said:
If the A700 and A900/A850, were not the success that Sony was looking for, Sony only has themselves to blame.

I agree, and I won't even mention the lack of advertising or pre release leaks. (ok, I will). If you look in the archives, you will see up to two days before the A700 announcement there was no indication of a 7 series camera, as opposed to the A77 where we were inundated with rumors and pre-release photos. At least Sony is learning hoe to get the interest up. It would be nice to see at least one TV ad for the SLT (rather than "make.believe").

cyainparadise said:
The typical users of this level of camera, more so the FF models, are looking for more of a system then what Sony has out. And, it's not just lenses they are looking for. Sony has not addressed the lack of a true macro flash, sticking with their macrolight. It would be easy for Sony to re-release the Minolta macro flashes.

Yes, they should have just retained the ring flash port on the macro controller, but when they cut the deal with KM they obviously didn't understand the use of a ring flash compared with a ring light , particularly Minolta's flash with the 4 independent tubes. Even the Sigma with 2 tubes doesn't give me the control I had with the Minolta.

Unfortunately, I don't think it would be easy for them to bring back the old controller (from the way KM acted when they sold the a-mount - essentially trashing spare parts etc rather than selling them). That would mean Sony would have to develop a new ring flash (which would probably have face recognition built in), and I don't think that would have any priority with Sony -- the longer it goes, the more their user base has learned to live without one. So obviously no one needs one. (Think Minolta autofocus macro bellows -- in the MF era they released a new bellows with almost every new camera series, when they introduced AF they introduced an entire line of lenses, accessories, and flashes, but no bellows system - they never added an AF camera compatible bellows / bellows lens.)

cyainparadise said:
As for Sony wanting to start a buzz for the 500mm f/4, by being on the sidelines. Sony does have a mock-up or two lying around. The front has glass, but it's unknown if the rest is wood. They could just mount it on a body and act like they're taking pictures. As long as no one gets too close, no one would know whether it's real or not.

Since Troy mentioned that one is a working prototype, they should try to get some "buzz" out of it, on a controlled basis so that some online magazine doesn't report that its no good because it looks like an unfinished product. And using a few (some wood, one prototype) at a sporting event could at least be used to get some attention.

tom

Ralf B · Sep 20, 2011

cyainparadise said:
If you check out this site, you'll see a Canon 1700mm lens that cost $120,000. I don't think Canon produced it in any quantities., even to people who bought their most expensive DSLR body.

http://www.crestock.com/blog/technology/the-worlds-most-extreme-photography-equipment-117.aspx

Very interesting read, thanks for the link!

I am happy to see that no-one pointed at a potential case of "wrong forum" so far, even though there was not a single piece of A mount gear discussed there.
Let's hope the forum police does not pick it up.
--
Ralf
http://RalfRalph.smugmug.com/

Denis247 · Sep 20, 2011

I've just ordered, simultaneously, one chicken and one egg from Amazon. I'll let you know which arrives first.

Frenske said:
IMO Birds evolved from dinosaurs who laid eggs so the egg came before the chicken. Now I am not sure which the 500mm f4 is, the chicken or the egg?

--
http://frenske.zenfolio.com

Stephen Carpenter · Sep 20, 2011

cyainparadise said:
As for Sony wanting to start a buzz for the 500mm f/4, by being on the sidelines. Sony does have a mock-up or two lying around. The front has glass, but it's unknown if the rest is wood. They could just mount it on a body and act like they're taking pictures. As long as no one gets too close, no one would know whether it's real or not.

Like this?

That's a pic of the prototype at the Focus on Imaging show earlier this year. It seemed functional.

cyainparadise · Sep 20, 2011

Ralf Bliesener said:
cyainparadise said:

If you check out this site, you'll see a Canon 1700mm lens that cost $120,000. I don't think Canon produced it in any quantities., even to people who bought their most expensive DSLR body.

http://www.crestock.com/blog/technology/the-worlds-most-extreme-photography-equipment-117.aspx

Click to expand...

Very interesting read, thanks for the link!

I am happy to see that no-one pointed at a potential case of "wrong forum" so far, even though there was not a single piece of A mount gear discussed there.
Let's hope the forum police does not pick it up.
--

Ralf, apparently you can't read, as your comment about there not being "a sincle piece of A mount mount rear discussed there", doesn't make sense if you followed the thread.

The original post of this thread was about the Sony 500mm f/4, which is an A-mount lens. Then my post about the 'extreme' lenses, was in response to a comment that Tom had made- "But how many people buying the A290 do you think would have bought it?" My point in posting the link was to show back up my earlier post that lenses such as the 500mm f/4 would not be mass produced, but made to order.

Ralf, your inability to connect the numerable posts (connect-the-dots) may be due to your lack of skills in using English as a first language, or possibly due to Father Time catching up to you.

However, if you read the thread in order, you will see that my post was in reference to the original post. My objection is to threads that do not in the original post have any connection to the A-mount or to Sony DSLRs, which is the core of this forum.

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