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Interesting Reid ...

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sphexx

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http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/ricoh_lens_mount_a12.shtml

Sean Reid writes "This new Mount A12 – which is designed to take Leica M–mount lenses – may well be the most interesting and promising development in the Ricoh GXR system to date. In fact – and in particular – the GXR with Mount A12 may currently be, overall, one of the best and most versatile medium–sensor, compact camera options on the market for photographers who work seriously using zone focus."
--
Richard
 
This article reads much like Ricoh's marketing talk for the M-mount module.

There is not a single bit of new information, nothing about the GXR-M handling, nothing about the IQ with various Leica lenses, and we are treated to a single boring b&w picture, badly underexposed, and scaled down to web page size.

He mentions the EVF various times but fails to inform the reader that the EVF costs an extra $250, besides the body and the M-mount module.

Also, he seems to be unaware that Ricoh is using an old Sony CMOS 12MP sensor, first seen in the D90 (August 2008), or that the NEX-C3, NEX-5N and NEX-7 also have offset microlenses for improved IQ with WA and UWA lenses.
"I have not yet tested a Sony NEX camera." Indeed.

I just wonder how much Ricoh spent for this "objective" pseudo-article.
--
Andrew
Panasonic LX3, Ricoh GXR w/ A12 28&50mm user
 
Not quite sure what your objective is becoming now, taking every opportunity to rain on every parade. I can understand you disliking the change in dynamic with the new influx of 'Leica' users who only want the A12-M and care not a whit for the rest of the GXR system now which the rest of us have all come know and love from the beginning, but you're starting to come across as embittered and truly disliking of Ricoh so if these people are affecting your own satisfaction with Ricoh maybe it's time you did change systems. Take Yomama's acceptance of your offer up as you said you would be happy with that. You don't sound happy right now, and that's what's important isn't it?
 
Pangloss said:
There is not a single bit of new information....
Click to expand...
That's his two cents. For $32.95 you can get the real thing....

I wouldn't expect a miraculously original point of view though....I would think that he is genuinely excited, and to suggest that he has been bribed by ricoh is not fair....
 
In fairness to Sean, he clearly states that he was giving some general thoughts on the A12 mount after a couple of weeks of usage - it was not meant as a review. At worst I suppose, one might accuse him trying to drum up subscriptions to his site (got me to renew) where he has started one of his typically thorough rolling reviews of this module. But this hardly makes him a shill for Ricoh. Indeed, much of what you criticize as absent from the luminous landscape musings are either present in his detailed review or soon will be.
 
anthony mazzeri said:
'Leica' users who only want the A12-M and care not a whit for the rest of the GXR system
Click to expand...
I think I need to correct myself as your arch nemesis Godfrey does actually like the other A12 units. Maybe I'm thinking of myself when it comes to new people posting here declaring they only want the A12-M and don't care about the rest, ie wouldn't even bother looking at the GXR otherwise, which is a bit pompous for my liking as it infers the rest of the GXR system and by extension us users are somehow beneath them and their suppsoed skills.

Wait a minute, now I'm the one starting to sound embittered! :O
 
I've read Sean's full piece (at his site) on the new module. It's a measured, hype-free look at what the GXR & M-mount A12 can do (great for zone focusing and EVF/LCD focus if you have a little more time; AA free sensor maintains characteristics of mounted lenses) and can't do (it's not and never will be a rangefinder). He duly notes the capabilities of the sensor, cost of the external viewfinder etc. It's filled with photos shot with different lenses under different conditions. Have you got something against Mr. Reid?

Anyhow, the micro lenses in the NEX models are optimized for E mount lenses, not M-mount and/or retro-focus lenses. This may have some effect on vignetting, colour shift with legacy glass, etc., but that's not why they are there. I've read (and seen examples) that the NEX C3 still exhibits colour shift and blur with ultra-wide M lenses.

The biggest issue for me with the NEX cameras (besides the handling) is the presence of the AA filter. To my knowledge, only the M8, M9 and new GXR module lack an AA filter. This is very important to maintain the quality of the original lenses. I've seen comparison shots at dpreview, Steve Huff etc., and sorry, the NEX photos mounted with Leica lenses do not produce Leica-like images IMHO. The best luck I've had so far outside of an M8/M9 was with the Olympus EPL1, which had a weak AA filter. It vignetted/distorted badly with anything wider than a 35mm lens however.
 
anthony mazzeri said:
anthony mazzeri said:
'Leica' users who only want the A12-M and care not a whit for the rest of the GXR system
Click to expand...
I think I need to correct myself as your arch nemesis Godfrey does actually like the other A12 units.
Click to expand...
I'm no one's "arch nemesis."

The GXR is an intriguing, high-performance, compact camera system. It would be just fine for me if they'd only done the two A12 AF camera units. The A12 Camera Mount changes the game significantly and makes it into a camera that can actually replace a lot of other gear I've been using. It's more appropriate to the direction I'm moving with my photography than that other gear, and so much nicer to shoot with than a NEX, that I'm quite enthused about it.

Andrew "Pangloss" is on my ignore list and I now completely ignore his posts: don't read them at all. Waste of time and energy. I could care less what he likes or dislikes, wants or doesn't want. He wastes everyone's time with horsepucky, that's the real annoyance to me.
--
Godfrey
http://godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
 
rondom said:
Pangloss said:
There is not a single bit of new information....
Click to expand...
That's his two cents. For $32.95 you can get the real thing....

I wouldn't expect a miraculously original point of view though....I would think that he is genuinely excited, and to suggest that he has been bribed by ricoh is not fair....
Click to expand...
I am not suggesting anything. Sean Reid got a pre-production sample of the GXR-M directly from Ricoh, with the EVF, apparently on a long-term loan. The exact terms of the agreement between Sean Reid and Ricoh are not known, but in any case it's not a camera Sean Reid bought and then decided to write about. So this article just amounts to a marketing action from Ricoh. The editor of Luminous Landscape should have made that clear.

At least the dpreview preview of the M-mount module, published more than a month ago, included a lot more information, shots of the camera and menus, and sample images. Imo it was a lot more objective too.
--
Andrew
Panasonic LX3, Ricoh GXR w/ A12 28&50mm user
 
Pangloss is the first person I have ever ignored on DPR. That is saying a lot.
 
Doug,

I usually enjoy the free articles authored by Sean Reid available on the Luminous Landscape website, as well as articles by other authors, for example, this one: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/dxomark_sensor_for_benchmarking_cameras.shtml )
One of my favourite articles by Sean Reid is this one:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/fastlensreview.shtml

Also, I am not saying in any way that he was "bribed" or that he is a "shill" for Ricoh.

However, he is taking part in the promotional campaign that Ricoh has decided to launch at the last minute for the M-mount module. I guess his public endorsement of the M-mount module will reassure many who are still considering the other available options for shooting with M-mount and LTM lenses.

And I stand by what I wrote in my post before: his article is not objective by any measure, and it reads like a promotional leaflet directly from Ricoh.
Doug D said:
In fairness to Sean, he clearly states that he was giving some general thoughts on the A12 mount after a couple of weeks of usage - it was not meant as a review. At worst I suppose, one might accuse him trying to drum up subscriptions to his site (got me to renew) where he has started one of his typically thorough rolling reviews of this module. But this hardly makes him a shill for Ricoh. Indeed, much of what you criticize as absent from the luminous landscape musings are either present in his detailed review or soon will be.
Click to expand...
--
Andrew
Panasonic LX3, Ricoh GXR w/ A12 28&50mm user
 
Andrew, when someone here claimed that Sein was more independent in his opinion, because he doesn't take ads and he relies on subscription fees, I disagreed. I also argued a similar point. The fact that he does not pay for the cameras, puts him in the same position with the rest of review sites.

this seems to be the typical arrangement in review industry, and in itself, is not a good reason to raise doubts about the reviewer's impartiality or honesty. Lack or existense of ads and sponsors does not change their opinion, in my mind. If you look at the review sites there is very little if no direct marketing from camera makers.

When there is too much traffic, there will be more pressure to review mainstream offerings, though...

Reid only reviews niche products that attract a certain type of user, this would also include himself.

Now, let me ask you another question? Who cares? Do you think there are a lot of people who will be "tricked" to buy the m module based on this article? Why does it upset you that someone enjoyed a product made by your favorite camera maker? If this unit turns into a success, it will provide yet more reasons for ricoh to focus on new modules, including those that you demand.
You should be happy about it, not angry or upset.

One last point: all this time that you have been opposed to M unit, I never heard a single derogatory word coming from you to fellow forum members. I think you deserve to be treated in the same manner. It is sad to read some of the responses to your post. But I disagree with your opinion at this point. This is just a niche product from a niche manufacturer, it is not end of GXR, the company, or the world.
Pangloss said:
rondom said:
Pangloss said:
There is not a single bit of new information....
Click to expand...
That's his two cents. For $32.95 you can get the real thing....

I wouldn't expect a miraculously original point of view though....I would think that he is genuinely excited, and to suggest that he has been bribed by ricoh is not fair....
Click to expand...
I am not suggesting anything. Sean Reid got a pre-production sample of the GXR-M directly from Ricoh, with the EVF, apparently on a long-term loan. The exact terms of the agreement between Sean Reid and Ricoh are not known, but in any case it's not a camera Sean Reid bought and then decided to write about. So this article just amounts to a marketing action from Ricoh. The editor of Luminous Landscape should have made that clear.

At least the dpreview preview of the M-mount module, published more than a month ago, included a lot more information, shots of the camera and menus, and sample images. Imo it was a lot more objective too.
--
Andrew
Panasonic LX3, Ricoh GXR w/ A12 28&50mm user
Click to expand...
 
robdel said:
Anyhow, the micro lenses in the NEX models are optimized for E mount lenses, not M-mount and/or retro-focus lenses. This may have some effect on vignetting, colour shift with legacy glass, etc., but that's not why they are there. I've read (and seen examples) that the NEX C3 still exhibits colour shift and blur with ultra-wide M lenses.
Click to expand...
Interesting, I wonder if you can share a link? Because my observation has been the opposite? Thanks....
 
I am not convinced that it is possible to optimise a sensor for two types of lenses (e.g. legacy lenses AND E lenses) This seems a total contradiction. Surely you can't have it both ways. If the new NEX sensors are optimised for legacy glass surely that would sacrifice the quality somewhere down the line for their E lenses?
 
Well, the e lenses are far from being perfect to begin with. Interestingly, I have also read people claiming their kit lenses were performing better with the new nex bodies.

The leica samples that I saw were impressive. But maybe with very wide there are still problems.
fhorn1 said:
I am not convinced that it is possible to optimise a sensor for two types of lenses (e.g. legacy lenses AND E lenses) This seems a total contradiction. Surely you can't have it both ways. If the new NEX sensors are optimised for legacy glass surely that would sacrifice the quality somewhere down the line for their E lenses?
Click to expand...
 
Pangloss said:
There is not a single bit of new information, nothing about the GXR-M handling, nothing about the IQ with various Leica lenses, and we are treated to a single boring b&w picture, badly underexposed, and scaled down to web page size.
Click to expand...
I wonder what new information other participants in this thread found in this article, because like you I couldn't find any. I'm pretty sue that if you let any of the regulars here use this camera for a couple of weeks you'll end up with a more revealing write up.

BTW, I didn't keep track of recent discussions, but if you get so much flak for telling it like it is, then I have to say the direction of the forum is not very encouraging.

Prog.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/oren_b
 
rondom said:
Andrew, when someone here claimed that Sein was more independent in his opinion, because he doesn't take ads and he relies on subscription fees, I disagreed. I also argued a similar point. The fact that he does not pay for the cameras, puts him in the same position with the rest of review sites.

this seems to be the typical arrangement in review industry, and in itself, is not a good reason to raise doubts about the reviewer's impartiality or honesty. Lack or existense of ads and sponsors does not change their opinion, in my mind. If you look at the review sites there is very little if no direct marketing from camera makers.

When there is too much traffic, there will be more pressure to review mainstream offerings, though...

Reid only reviews niche products that attract a certain type of user, this would also include himself.

Now, let me ask you another question? Who cares? Do you think there are a lot of people who will be "tricked" to buy the m module based on this article? Why does it upset you that someone enjoyed a product made by your favorite camera maker? If this unit turns into a success, it will provide yet more reasons for ricoh to focus on new modules, including those that you demand.
You should be happy about it, not angry or upset.
Click to expand...
I am neither angry nor upset. If you read my original post in this thread, I was just saying that I am used to better articles from Sean Reid.

Also from the Luminous Landscape website:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/about/disclosure.shtml

"Products reviewed by contributors are almost always items that they themselves own, since few people receive review samples. If the product is on loan to a submitting reviewer I always find out the nature of that person's relationship with the manufacturer and try and ensure that any claims are reasonable and can be substantiated."

It seems this (very good in theory) editorial policy did not apply to this particular Sean Reid pseudo-article.
rondom said:
One last point: all this time that you have been opposed to M unit, I never heard a single derogatory word coming from you to fellow forum members. I think you deserve to be treated in the same manner. It is sad to read some of the responses to your post. But I disagree with your opinion at this point. This is just a niche product from a niche manufacturer, it is not end of GXR, the company, or the world.
Click to expand...
I don't mind people disagreeing with me, and I respect your opinion. Obviously, I have no respect for those that resort to insulting me.

--
Andrew
Panasonic LX3, Ricoh GXR w/ A12 28&50mm user
 
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