Samsung NX200, good DP option?

Here is a little comparison of a downsized Bayer image vs Foveon. I guess you can tell which is which.



Downsized Bayer images may have sharp edges that are somewhat "hollow" inside. Foveon makes better, natural looking textures. In addition to that, it has some special qualities: clarity and 3D effect especially visible on water, sky and shiny things. These qualities are usually referred as the Foveon Look™.

Unfortunately, the new Foveon sensor while gained more megapixels, seems to have lost those special qualities. Photos from the SD1 I've seen so far are dull and "Bayerish". Since the Foveon Look™ is no more, I think new 20+ megapixel cameras that cost around $1000 are good alternatives to ridiculously overpriced and slow SD1.
The right hand image is the Foveon.

As for the SD1, I don't own one. But if you send me one, I will be happy, at no charge to you, to give it extensive tests, and report accurately what I find. I'll be happy to e-mail you my adress and even pay for shipping.

Dave
--
"Everyone who has ever lived, has lived in Modern Times"
 
No offense, but I think you're in denial. You 'disagree' with the fact that a '100% crop' from a 14MP APS-C image is apples to oranges comparing it to an original image almost half its size to begin with? You think I'm pulling some kind of trick with my examples?

Frankly, the katydid crop is a little soft. Same with your oft-used face crop. You have a lot of complexity in both of those scenes and have no doubt tweaked sharp levels just so, but I for one can see the limitations in detail a mile away. I've done graphics professionally since 1988 and I'm telling you that neither of those crops work as a 'stand alone image' unless all you're doing is posting to a web blog or similar. They wouldn't hold up as a small print.

As DPR said: "While it outresolves the downscaled Nikon D60 image and almost matches the resolution of the ten megapixel Ricoh, it cannot really compete with a modern 10 megapixel DSLR such as the Nikon D60." ...and "While the DP1 delivers a large amount of detail at its native resolution of 4.6 MP the upscaled RAW output cannot keep up with the 450D. The Canon is sharper and shows more detail."

The DP series X3 simply does not out-resolve a 14MP+ Bayer camera. Period.

Here's two more 1:1 crops (#1 & 2) from an original (#3) image, not that I expect it'll make a dent in that wall. Again, these crops constitute a much smaller fraction of the original image than a 1:1 crop from the DP2. And these are pics I just grabbed, not amazing composition or carefully picked out to demonstrate my point.











 
No offense, but I think you're in denial. You 'disagree' with the fact that a '100% crop' from a 14MP APS-C image is apples to oranges comparing it to an original image almost half its size to begin with? You think I'm pulling some kind of trick with my examples?
Did I say you were "pulling a trick?"
Frankly, the katydid crop is a little soft. Same with your oft-used face crop. You have a lot of complexity in both of those scenes and have no doubt tweaked sharp levels just so, but I for one can see the limitations in detail a mile away. I've done graphics professionally since 1988 and I'm telling you that neither of those crops work as a 'stand alone image' unless all you're doing is posting to a web blog or similar. They wouldn't hold up as a small print.
I did graphics professionally for eight years, and wrote for a magazine for six years on the topic of image processing, color separation, and graphics.

(The Katydid is not soft. So far your only silly statement)
As DPR said: "While it outresolves the downscaled Nikon D60 image and almost matches the resolution of the ten megapixel Ricoh, it cannot really compete with a modern 10 megapixel DSLR such as the Nikon D60." ...and "While the DP1 delivers a large amount of detail at its native resolution of 4.6 MP the upscaled RAW output cannot keep up with the 450D. The Canon is sharper and shows more detail."
If you read my posts, I stated quite firmly, that I choose to shoot my wildlife photography with a Nikon because I needed the additional resolution that the larger sensor provides.
The DP series X3 simply does not out-resolve a 14MP+ Bayer camera. Period. Absolutely. Which is what I said.
No, but whatever detail it DOES resolve, it resolves with far more clarity.

So let me give you a longer explanation, since this may be a semantics problem.

When I first saw the output of the SD9, I was tremendously impressed. I was not impressed by the images themselves, but what happened when I zoomed into them. Even at 400 or 600 percent, the images maintained their pixel clarity. Unlike a Bayer images, they never became "muddy." Ok, so what does this mean? It's not as if the images were of any use at 600 percent. It means I can interpolate these images up, almost indefinitely,* (well, within reason) as compared to Bayer pattern images. Does this mean that we cannot interpolate up a bayer image? Obviously no. I print at 16x20, and my Bayer images are just fine. I like to get a 100 Meg or greater file, and the larger the image, the less interpolation I have to do. Now, I've printed Bayer images interpolated up from 1600 pixel images. Not a problem. Of course it wasn't a problem since the images had no detail. Here's an example of such an image.



Looks just fine at 16x20

And I'm sure I could do the same with your grill.

But your mountain shot ain't gonna hack it. Sorry, no, even with good interpolation tools, it's just too muddy. Now that Katydid image would work just fine at 16x20. True, not as good as I'd like, and I wouldn't normally do it, but at a normal viewing distance, that tiny 800 wide image would look just fine, even at 16x20.

So when I use the expression, "Stand alone image," I am using it in the literal sense. I can actually make use of it for prints. At 8x10 you couldn't tell I interpolated it up, unless you were using a magnifying glass.

Dave
--
"Everyone who has ever lived, has lived in Modern Times"
 
DPR flat-out contradicts you (as quoted).

No, I didn't post the mountain pic. Yes, your Katydid crop is a bit soft, despite PP. No, I don't see more detail in your 1:1 crops than mine, despite the Bayer crops being a far smaller portion of the original image by comparison.

DP1/2 images cannot be 'endlessly upwardly interpolated', and you can't qualify a statement that includes the word 'endlessly' with 'within reason'.

I think it's time we end this particular exchange.
 
DPR flat-out contradicts you (as quoted).
You mean they say that the SIgma 4 meg chip out resolves a Bayer 14 meg chip? Well their wrong.
No, I didn't post the mountain pic.
So what?
Yes, your Katydid crop is a bit soft, despite PP.
"He's blind captain, he's blind" (not to mention his reading disability)

No, I don't see more detail in your 1:1 crops than mine, despite the Bayer crops being a far smaller portion of the original image by comparison.

See above
DP1/2 images cannot be 'endlessly upwardly interpolated', and you can't qualify a statement that includes the word 'endlessly' with 'within reason'.
How about without reason? Images from the DP2 interpolate up much better than those of Bayer sensors. Sine I print at 16x20, I should know.
I think it's time we end this particular exchange.
You mean, agree to disagree? :)

Dave
--
"Everyone who has ever lived, has lived in Modern Times"
 
as i understand the right image (red car) is from a bayer camera...
Right. It's a shot from the Samsung NX200 downsized to 10 MP. The left one is from the Sigma SD9.
I must say this NX200 makes a lot of sense to my eyes...im going to way some sensor tests, but samsung releases good small lenses, making the system much more compact and better (IMO) than the NEX system...
 
The DP series X3 simply does not out-resolve a 14MP+ Bayer camera. Period.
Are you talking about luminance resolution or colour resolution?
dear... consumer level APS-C sensors are 16-24mp now... and 16-18mp are already prev. generation actually - 20-24mp is the current state of APS-C sensors... so it does not matter luminance or colour... 4.6x3mp is hopelessly outresolved.
 
I have the Samsung NX10 with the 30mm pancake and it's excellent. I can highly recommend this lens.
Does Samsung make the lenses for the NX100/200? If not, any idea who makes them?
--
Tom Schum
 
Yes. I wonder who they learned from. Probably Pentax or Schneider.
as if Koreans do not have their own... look @ Samyang lenses for example... it is not a manual process requiring a rare optical designer anymore - you just detune (in terms of glass and complexity of individual elements/assemblies) what modern software packages actually can calculate for you to mass produce the lens within the target price range...
 
Boy, i really wish these 24mm and 12-24mm to come earlier...too bad...
as if Koreans do not have their own...
I didn't mean to say that Koreans are less capable than Japanese. Samsung lenses have been very good optically so far, and their future lens roadmap looks exciting:



I'm glad they ditched their DSLR line and concentrated on mirrorless. Unlike Sony who's struggling to make decent lenses for two different mounts at the same time.

--
http://www.gridenko.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alex_virt/
 
Boy, i really wish these 24mm and 12-24mm to come earlier...too bad...
I'm afraid the 12-24 will be expensive. My next lens purchase probably will be 16-80 if it's capable to match the new sensor and the price is not sky high. Otherwise I'll have to stick to primes.
i just found this (while looking for a photo of the lens...):
http://www.ajrichard.com/Samsung-16-80mm-F3-5-4-5-LENS-f-NX-CAMERAS/p-1509

i really want only primes for this sytem, since they manage to keep the camera really small...
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top