Photo Mediocrity

It's partially the editing.

However, there's something else at work here, IMO.

Of those shots, practically all of them were in situations where I could actually MOVE (sometimes even get on stage) to get the exactly angle and distance and focal length I wanted. That makes a HUGE difference in the results. You just can't get very many great shots when you're stuck in a particular seat in the audience. (Yes, you can get some -- but you get a lot of "junk", too . . . but shooting that "junk" made me better technically, and gave me lots of pictures to learn from).

I'd say my shots are better now (from having a few years experience), and they're also better when I have "access" to get to where I need to be for the shots.

Keith Jewell said:

I haven't really been excited by most of the shots you post. But
the group you posted that went into a gallery were really quite
good. Knowing that you take thousands of pictures ... I sort of
think you're probably a better photo editor than photographer. You
know how to pick out your best, and you take enough pictures, that
there will be some 'best' in there that is really very good.

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--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise

It's easy to throw stones. It's obvious you don't do so hot yourself with photos if you are not willing to let us see them. I can also understand why you don't post your e-mail address considering your vitriolic remarks. Prove me wrong.

Jim Radcliffe said:

As I said before, if his comments had been posted in a forum
populated by pros and dedicated to the discussion of photography as
an art form or craft then it would have been appropriate.. but not
here.

You keep missing the point.

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Jim, I will try one last time. The canon forum is not just for gear heads, although that is what it has become. If find the "what lens should I buy" threads illuminating, then more power to you. However, they are boring and redundant. P.S a camera, without the vision of the photographer to bring it to life, is just a dead piece of plastic.

J. Roberts

melvin sokolsky said:

The purpose of my post was to have SongLi divulge his/her reason
for posturing in superiority and at the same time desperately
reaching out for help

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I would be pretty surprised if you could draw out the underlying reason, although this:

melvin sokolsky said:

screenplays) and whose sole purpose is to make everyone who
participates on any forum feel worthless.

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...sounds right on the mark to me. Disappointment (or worse) seems to be a gift that goes on giving. The fellow I referred to earlier who insisted that Ansel Adams' landscapes are "not art" because they don't illustrate or illuminate the human condition, said that he is a landscape photographer. Interesting problem: if he could dismiss Adams' landscapes, what of his own? Then by his own criteria, his own work is also "not art."

So it seemed his mantra "whatever happened to creativity?" was missing a word. The real mantra was "whatever happened to my creativity?"

Disappointment can be a powerful motivator...anyone who ever had an entry-level English course in college, taught by someone embittered that he hadn't yet gotten tenure or that his was the soul of a giant talent, a Tolstoy trapped in the body of someone required to teach people he considered beneath him, knows what that kind of motivation can produce.

melvin sokolsky said:

I believe we must all lighten up and reflect before we give
credibility to so poisonous a cookie.

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For better or worse, it got attention. But it didn't get much respect.

There could be something worthwhile in harsh criticism. Some especially biting criticism I got years ago drove me out of a bad job situation -- a good result. Years later more such criticism energized me to sit down and write something that played a part in my getting a very good job indeed.

So criticism alone isn't the issue. But poisonous criticism -- that "gift-that-goes-on-giving" issue -- another story...

I just thought you might like to know that. I've still not found any of this person's photos. I did find some pornographic stuff on photoSig by someone with the same last name, but I couldn't find anything by Song.

David R Stout said:

Maybe SongMi should show us what isn't mediocrity.
Ideally, with examples of his own work.

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I've seen a number of posts of the SongMi variety in these forums, but I have yet to see one such "critic" post examples of his own work. Maybe this latest critic will be the exception to the rule. Maybe he'll post photographs so gorgeous, they'll leave everyone gasping for air.

Just kidding.

If you happen to post a lot of photo threads in this particular forum in quick succession, you're quite likely to get an email from Phil telling you to cease and desist, and to post them in the Samples and Galleries Forum, instead.

Thus proving Jim's point.

J. Roberts said:

Jim Radcliffe said:

As I said before, if his comments had been posted in a forum
populated by pros and dedicated to the discussion of photography as
an art form or craft then it would have been appropriate.. but not
here.

You keep missing the point.

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Jim, I will try one last time. The canon forum is not just for gear
heads, although that is what it has become. If find the "what lens
should I buy" threads illuminating, then more power to you.
However, they are boring and redundant. P.S a camera, without the
vision of the photographer to bring it to life, is just a dead
piece of plastic.

J. Roberts

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--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise

DavidP said:

But you know what? It took a LOT of less-than-mediocre shots for
me to get these.

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David, you hit the nail right on the head. I believe that many pros would agree that film (even more so with digital) is their cheapest expense when you take into consideration the cost of their eqiupment, their time, travel expenses. etc. I'm also certain that many would admit that their percentage of what they consider to be "keepers" is also much lower than the average photographer would expect.

BTW, I enjoyed your portrait gallery.

Ron

--
http://www.pbase.com/loonbay7

I think you're right about that. I've heard estimates from as low as 10% to maybe 25%, depending on the sport, as being "keepers".

Ron Geur said:

David, you hit the nail right on the head. I believe that many
pros would agree that film (even more so with digital) is their
cheapest expense when you take into consideration the cost of their
eqiupment, their time, travel expenses. etc. I'm also certain
that many would admit that their percentage of what they consider
to be "keepers" is also much lower than the average photographer
would expect.

BTW, I enjoyed your portrait gallery.

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--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise

What are you looking for? You make generalizations about bad or mediocre photography. What do you find fault with? Technique? Composition? Choice of subject matter? Can you provide examples of good photography? How about some of your own work? You may be the best critic but if you have nothing to show of your own, your words are just that . . . words. No meaning, no substance – and some might even call it babbling.

I appreciate good photography (emotionally appealing to me in some way), no matter who does it, and I have found some really fine work posted in the dpreview forums. Yes, some of it is bad or mediocre but, more than that, it means something to someone. If I can offer something in the way of help, I will do it. Or, I might say nothing. It is much better to say nothing than callously ripping apart someone who has put their heart and soul into their work. And what's wrong with trying to offer some encouragment? So, I hope, if you don't respect the work, respect the person and their effort. They may never be as good as you but at least they made that effort, especially if they had been true to themselves in the process. That counts for something, I think.

I've been involved with photography as a hobbyist for 20+ years. No matter how good, mediocre, or bad I am – the moment I think I know it all is the moment I better quit photography altogether because one who knows it all is incapable of learning anything. I'll always consider myself to be a student, and I'll keep doing what I do because I love doing it. If you like what I do, thank you. If you don't, thank you for taking the time to tell me, but I'd like to hear the reason why since I am a student eager to learn. Something like, "that's cr_p" or "your pictures suck" or "that's mediocre" will be given the consideration it deserves. * plooop *

Now, having said that, I am posting the link to my galleries. It's a risk we all take when doing it. Good, bad, or mediocre . . . I didn't want to leave with just words.

Tom
http://www.pbase.com/tomrok

DavidP said:

I think you're right about that. I've heard estimates from as low
as 10% to maybe 25%, depending on the sport, as being "keepers".

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For studio work, I would be less than happy with 50%, but for the majority of general photography, especially action photos, 10% keepers would be incredibly high.

Lin

--
http://208.56.82.71

...the only ones you can catch are the ones that are considerably "slower" than yourself !

(...assuming that any ARE ;-)

Larry (Some of the ones you think you are passing are just walking around AGAIN, on a "cool-down lap")

Gene Bonin said:

Gene

tim martin said:

Jason M. Stone said:

Speaking as a college student, I take offense to the assertion that
we are plagued by immaturity and the hubris of the young. I believe
that many of us, myself included, often conduct ourselves with more
wisdom and dignity than those who are greatly learned and
experienced in the ways of the world.

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I am 41, and I am already starting to look at 26 year olds with rings
in their eyelids, and thinking, "wow... how bizzare". And I wasn't
exactly a total straight arrow when I was 26... but...

None the less, I have to agree with you, there are often problems
with people of all ages. A few extra years can make people better,
and it can also make them worse.

In fact, I remember noticing when I was 9 noticing that some of
my teachers were really great, and a very small few them were total
jerks.

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My judge is not you, my judge and jury is the money I receive from my photography.

Bitter thwarted insignificant critics like you are a dime a dozen, and what counts is the paycheck period, and my paychecks, every time I get a paycheck from a client that is all the reward and award I need. Wether you like or dislike any of my photographs doesn't take money out, or put money in my pocket, and in the end it's not the art, and if we we're all honest we would admit it's the money, period.

So your opinion is like a rectum - everyone has one.

DavidP said:

I think you're right about that. I've heard estimates from as low
as 10% to maybe 25%, depending on the sport, as being "keepers".

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Depends how high the standards are. I read somewhere that 10,000-20,000 photos are taken for the average National Geographic spread of 10-25 photos. What is that - .1%? Think so - admittedly exceptionally high standards. A pro photographer friend once told me he's very happy if he gets 1 great shot per roll of film.

--
Best,
Laurie

JohnM said:

SongMi said:

After several several months observing these forums I'm pretty
happy to see so much "photo medicority." The photo mediocrity
exposes the vast wasteland of bad photography, poorly skilled
photographers (AMATEUR AND PRO), and the most cancerous of all, the
popular acceptance of mediocre photographs.

I will liken today's photography to screenplays. There are over
50,000 "new" screenplays written and passes through the big
Hollywood studios every year and only very very few makes it to the
silver screen and even those few stories selected among the vast
wasteland of talent are crummy.

Now some of you are as critical toward me as a critic as I am
critical to the junk photos posted here (and everywhere else). Some
of you are angered by my remarks and I have equally answered your
griefs, most of the time gently (sometimes I have thrown others
under the bus to get through the smoke of arrogance and pride).

First of all, I want to thank most of you for posting your mediocre
pictures to all the world so that I can be sure that good
photography is still a vast green pasture of opportunity. The
scornful mediocrity will always miss the green pasture and settle
for the parched valley and well, lets hope they still settle
themselves to tumbleweeds.

Now, for those who seek green pastures (not neccessarily for
profit) keep listening and follow to those "critics" who cry out in
the desert to show the wayward the way to the green pastures.

--
Have a good day!

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--
http://www.pbase.com/julivalley/galleries
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=19579
Canon D-60, C-2100UZ, C-3040Z.
Juli

In the case of the English language, one isn't afforded the same freedom of subjectiveness that photography is. Which is why it amuses me to see you criticizing others for aspiring for greatness, and in your eyes, failing.

I find your self-aggrandizing and pointless post to be very cute. It reminds me of all the those mediocre photographers you speak of. Much like them, it's like you were inspired by something beautiful, and for a brief moment, you actually believed you could transcend all mediocrity and attain that level of greatness.

Without this cliche-laden reminder, I would be left wondering how the truly elite could survive in such a mediocre world. Would they simply be overwhelmed by this sea of mediocrity?

On a more serious note...

Outside of this post being a completely worthless troll, I ask you SongMi, who benefits from the continued mediocrity of the average photographer? You speak of this "green pasture of opportunity". Do you benefit from this pasture?

I suppose you are the shepherd crying out in the desert to those elite photographers for them to "follow to" you. Now that they have come to you seeking sage advice as the omniscient critic, what do they get out of it? What do YOU get out of it?

Tell me SongMi. I'd like to know.

SongMi said:

After several several months observing these forums I'm pretty
happy to see so much "photo medicority." The photo mediocrity
exposes the vast wasteland of bad photography, poorly skilled
photographers (AMATEUR AND PRO), and the most cancerous of all, the
popular acceptance of mediocre photographs.

I will liken today's photography to screenplays. There are over
50,000 "new" screenplays written and passes through the big
Hollywood studios every year and only very very few makes it to the
silver screen and even those few stories selected among the vast
wasteland of talent are crummy.

Now some of you are as critical toward me as a critic as I am
critical to the junk photos posted here (and everywhere else). Some
of you are angered by my remarks and I have equally answered your
griefs, most of the time gently (sometimes I have thrown others
under the bus to get through the smoke of arrogance and pride).

First of all, I want to thank most of you for posting your mediocre
pictures to all the world so that I can be sure that good
photography is still a vast green pasture of opportunity. The
scornful mediocrity will always miss the green pasture and settle
for the parched valley and well, lets hope they still settle
themselves to tumbleweeds.

Now, for those who seek green pastures (not neccessarily for
profit) keep listening and follow to those "critics" who cry out in
the desert to show the wayward the way to the green pastures.

--
Have a good day!

Click to expand...

SongMi said:

Now some of you are as critical toward me as a critic as I am
critical to the junk photos posted here (and everywhere else).

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I looked through several of your posts to see if you've ever given a sample of your work... found lots of critiques and holier-than-though preaching, but not one sample. And I saw this:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1020&message=3181541

Somehow, I think we're dealing with someone mentally challenged in more ways than the obvious.

--
BryanS

Hi all!

I just registered and wonder:
Are there many other SongMis around here?

Sam

P.S. The only thing I know is that I don't know a damn thing yet.
And I'm proud of it.

SongMi said:

After several several months observing these forums I'm pretty
happy to see so much "photo medicority." The photo mediocrity
exposes the vast wasteland of bad photography, poorly skilled
photographers (AMATEUR AND PRO), and the most cancerous of all, the
popular acceptance of mediocre photographs.

I will liken today's photography to screenplays. There are over
50,000 "new" screenplays written and passes through the big
Hollywood studios every year and only very very few makes it to the
silver screen and even those few stories selected among the vast
wasteland of talent are crummy.

Now some of you are as critical toward me as a critic as I am
critical to the junk photos posted here (and everywhere else). Some
of you are angered by my remarks and I have equally answered your
griefs, most of the time gently (sometimes I have thrown others
under the bus to get through the smoke of arrogance and pride).

First of all, I want to thank most of you for posting your mediocre
pictures to all the world so that I can be sure that good
photography is still a vast green pasture of opportunity. The
scornful mediocrity will always miss the green pasture and settle
for the parched valley and well, lets hope they still settle
themselves to tumbleweeds.

Now, for those who seek green pastures (not neccessarily for
profit) keep listening and follow to those "critics" who cry out in
the desert to show the wayward the way to the green pastures.

--
Have a good day!

Click to expand...

Sampo Manninen said:

I just registered and wonder:
Are there many other SongMis around here?

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There are periodic outbursts of flaming (so what else is new in cyberspace?). There are occasionally "trolling" messages posted by people who'd like to get into arguments (Mac versus PC, Canon versus Nikon, the usual puerile nonsense). I haven't seen many "trolling" messages -- at least in this forum -- in which someone posts inflammatory remarks, aimed at "everyone," about the supposed mediocrity of their work.

Of course, there's no reason to believe that someone of the SongMi variety has enough experience with or smarts about photography to be able to discern "mediocre" from "excellent" in the first place. And it is cyberspace, after all -- it's impossible to know if the "troll" in question even owns a camera (or has yet learned which button turns it on and off).

Danny, Thank you for your kind words about my photography. In case you'd like to know, I am in the process of creating a full-time business as a professional photographer. I'll be spending the next few weeks acquiring a kit of pro gear, doing various paperwork, etc; then I'm headed out for a year or more of travel and photography (first North America, then Australia, then ?), to start building up a juicy image library.

When I have opportunities, I will post new work to view. As far as learning something from revisiting my stuff: I'm glad to share what little I know. Feel free to ask me any questions you want to:

[email protected]

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I agree that SongMi's original post was sub-optimal. However, I hope that people do get beyond his stylistic issues, and take note of the message that we need to create an atmosphere where it is comfortable and acceptable to offer substantial negative criticism, as well as supportive remarks.

Danny Cardenas said:

Wow-

Thanks for the link Mike. I had not seen your work before, and was
blown away. You must have a really expensive camera! ;-) Seriously-
I aspire to images with such rich texture, color and composition as
your work has.

As to the original posters comments, I'd have to say the usefulness
of a rant like that is dubious, although in this case it did lead
me to the discovery of a talent I was not previously aware of. And
I'll be revisiting Mike's portfolio frequently to hopefully learn
something. So something good did come from this post for me at
least. Also, though not a popular opinion, I'm inclined to agree
with the assessment- much of, if not most of the work I see around
here, and elsewhere is less than inspiring (including my own). But
so what! And no you can't see my work, 'cause it sucks! I was a bit
surprised to see such a long winded, tactless rant, but to each his
own. He's entitled to his opinion, and I defend his right to his
express it.

-dc

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