They call and sound like they want something really something Professional and explain the venue of the Wedding is well planned. You get a really good idea of what the Bride wants and promise to deliver Professional quality/product @ a competive price. You get a phone # and explain you will email an estimate followed by a phone call to expain the details. That being said they our shopping the market and no booking. What gives?
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What exactly do todays Brides want?
- Thread starter Taddy
- Start date
ABA DABA
Senior Member
like buying a used car, called tire kicking, looking for the lowest price regardless of quality or price. In other words welcome to the world of the "pro" with a point and shoot.
ABA DABA
ABA DABA
PenguinPhotoCo
Veteran Member
You're sales methodology is wrong - people wil buy when the value exceeds the price - when "it's worth it".
they way you're doing it it's obviously not building enough value in their minds of your product for them to fee it's worth what your asking, price wise.
Put packages on your site - $1500, 2000, 2500 or something like that - $500 between packages, $300 maybe if you are cheaper or $1000 if you are expensive. You need 3 to 5 packages and please don't call them ABC or Gold Silver Bronze. You can't say you're a creative individual and use lame names like that and come across as believable, sorry.
Now they'll only contact you if they can afford you, and then your goal is to get them and their mom/fiance with you in a meeting where you can build a relationship, read body language, etc.
--
Learn the science. Practice the art.
they way you're doing it it's obviously not building enough value in their minds of your product for them to fee it's worth what your asking, price wise.
Put packages on your site - $1500, 2000, 2500 or something like that - $500 between packages, $300 maybe if you are cheaper or $1000 if you are expensive. You need 3 to 5 packages and please don't call them ABC or Gold Silver Bronze. You can't say you're a creative individual and use lame names like that and come across as believable, sorry.
Now they'll only contact you if they can afford you, and then your goal is to get them and their mom/fiance with you in a meeting where you can build a relationship, read body language, etc.
--
Learn the science. Practice the art.
AcquiredTaste
Veteran Member
Yep.
I agree mostly, but not fully. I think 5 packages is too many and I think even 4 is stretching it. Three solid and well thought out packages are enough to cover the majority of your target clients and you can always offer to custom modify from there. I also think that giving a general price range is better than giving specifics. That way they contact you for specifics and you can actually speak with them versus them deciding on your services based on your packages alone.
I also don't agree with the no bronze/silver/gold statement. While those aren't particularly creative they have broad appeal and are easy to understand how they correlate to one another. What I've found is that those who use some other fancy scheme (the story, the dream, the fairytale) tend to be the ones who are trying to push their 'creativity' in your face. Generally I've found that these are the same professional who make use of such editing techniques as white vignette, stars and hearts, selective coloring, and heavy sepia. Sometimes simple is just fine.
PenguinPhotoCo
Veteran Member
5...
roughly...
shoot and burn, 1 photog, 6 hours - the cheap one you can advertise with " complete wedding coverage from $1495" - you always sell up from here - second photog at least, more time, etc.
shoot and cheap small album, 6 hours, eSession (an hour at the studio)
2 photogs, 7 hours, bigger but still cheap (in costs) album, eSession - this and the one above are what you'll sell the most of. CTB albums and enough coverage to be realistic for most weddings in your area, second photog is could be assistant.
2 photogs, 8 hours, good album (not CTB), bigger eSession, 16x20 loose - 'real' album, real coverage, real eSession - what the brides want but some can't afford.
2 photogs, 8.5 hours, bigger album, bigger eSession, framed 20xs24, proof book - the 'big one' that nobody ever buys but it makes the rest look cheap.
Name them like:
fairy tale
dreams do come true
princess for a day
etc
cheesy? Perhaps. But it works. Package A, or Gold Package are not better. Hotels do not call their ballrooms A B or C...they use names. Paint a picture with your names!
--
Learn the science. Practice the art.
roughly...
shoot and burn, 1 photog, 6 hours - the cheap one you can advertise with " complete wedding coverage from $1495" - you always sell up from here - second photog at least, more time, etc.
shoot and cheap small album, 6 hours, eSession (an hour at the studio)
2 photogs, 7 hours, bigger but still cheap (in costs) album, eSession - this and the one above are what you'll sell the most of. CTB albums and enough coverage to be realistic for most weddings in your area, second photog is could be assistant.
2 photogs, 8 hours, good album (not CTB), bigger eSession, 16x20 loose - 'real' album, real coverage, real eSession - what the brides want but some can't afford.
2 photogs, 8.5 hours, bigger album, bigger eSession, framed 20xs24, proof book - the 'big one' that nobody ever buys but it makes the rest look cheap.
Name them like:
fairy tale
dreams do come true
princess for a day
etc
cheesy? Perhaps. But it works. Package A, or Gold Package are not better. Hotels do not call their ballrooms A B or C...they use names. Paint a picture with your names!
--
Learn the science. Practice the art.
AcquiredTaste
Veteran Member
Unless you are in a different world than I am, no bride I have ever met with has had interest in a 'classic' wedding album. They all want CTB's. Sure, bigger and better CTB's, but they cringe when you pull out the old-style single print per page albums. I've tried to sell them and they are impossible to get any interest in. I can't image including them in a larger package as a bonus.
Maybe I don't understand, define 'real album' for me.
No, it doesn't. My wife is a great example. When she shopped with me for wedding photographers when we got married she always made fun of the photographers who used crazy names like that. They're cheesy and awful.
I believe they are.
Are you kidding?! Maybe I'm missing the sarcasm font or something, but every event center in the area calls their ballrooms either A, B, C, or 1, 2, 3. (Or, if the ballrooms aren't sectioned off and the whole center is being used it's usually called the 'Grand Ballroom')
MylesDavid
Leading Member
I have a friend who wanted me to look at some wedding photographers online portfolio's to help him choose. The photog he liked most blew out all of the whites in the portfolio photos so there was no detail in the wedding dresses. He said "They really liked the photog and the price was in his price range".
So that is the bottom line, price/how many photos do they get, do they like the photo style regardless of how photo gear professional it is, personality compatibility would be the final step. Do they feel comfortable with you taking their most intimate photos on a special day. Everyone has a different idea of what a wedding photo should look like.
These days it is about shooting and shooting and shooting snapshot photos. Give FOUR packages starting with just photos, add one with engagement shoot, and another with a wedding album. Then a price for all three elements together. Have other add-on options, like a second photographer separate.
The link has some funny videos about being a wedding photographer.
http://davidscameracraft.blogspot.com/2011/06/budget-wedding-photography.html
So that is the bottom line, price/how many photos do they get, do they like the photo style regardless of how photo gear professional it is, personality compatibility would be the final step. Do they feel comfortable with you taking their most intimate photos on a special day. Everyone has a different idea of what a wedding photo should look like.
These days it is about shooting and shooting and shooting snapshot photos. Give FOUR packages starting with just photos, add one with engagement shoot, and another with a wedding album. Then a price for all three elements together. Have other add-on options, like a second photographer separate.
The link has some funny videos about being a wedding photographer.
http://davidscameracraft.blogspot.com/2011/06/budget-wedding-photography.html
M
Michael Thomas Mitchell
Guest
What a bride wants depends on when she wants it. Before the wedding day, she wants the cheapest photographer possible. After her wedding day, she wishes she could go back, pay a little bit more, and get the photographer she should have gotten in the first place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IxNVGYtW1g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZC-Mc941qE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2iZ1lPYb2E&feature=related
23 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZgD5sWoW4w&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IxNVGYtW1g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZC-Mc941qE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2iZ1lPYb2E&feature=related
23 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZgD5sWoW4w&feature=related
Bernard D
Leading Member
I don't think I quite understand your issue ?
When I purchased my Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II USM lens, I looked around for the best price, even if I was buying it new, I'm not an idiot for it either ?
When you spend a lot of money, it's only normal to look around, nothing wrong with a B&G asking you for what you offer and pricing and your portfolio and then go to the next photogs and ask the same, and pick what they find the best value ? You're not the only photog out there ?
Bernard
--
I measure my success in life not by my awards, but by the amount of smiles, hugs and kisses I get from my family on a daily basis !
When I purchased my Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II USM lens, I looked around for the best price, even if I was buying it new, I'm not an idiot for it either ?
When you spend a lot of money, it's only normal to look around, nothing wrong with a B&G asking you for what you offer and pricing and your portfolio and then go to the next photogs and ask the same, and pick what they find the best value ? You're not the only photog out there ?
Bernard
--
I measure my success in life not by my awards, but by the amount of smiles, hugs and kisses I get from my family on a daily basis !
joeybob
Leading Member
They want you to loose a few pounds for them, they want you to make pictures appear that they never posed for, they want pictures of people who were at the wedding but those people are the folks they didn't ask you to shoot before-hand, they want you to make the brides-maids larger than she is...etc and they want that and more at the lowest price.
It might sometimes be easier to answer what it is that they don't want.
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http://flickr.com/photos/joe_i/
It might sometimes be easier to answer what it is that they don't want.
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http://flickr.com/photos/joe_i/
M
Michael Thomas Mitchell
Guest
It's not really a fair analogy, however. When you bought your lens, you were comparing prices of the identical lens, correct? If not, then you would have only been comparing prices between any brand or feature set of 70-200 lenses, in which case the Canon would have been one of the most expensive rather than least expensive.
I got the impression that the OP is concerned that the brides calling him may be searching for price only, and not considering other issues such as quality. Using your analogy, when they find out that he's the price of a Canon 70-200 IS 2.8 L, they continue to call around until they get something along the lines of a Vivitar 70-200 f6.3 (with deluxe lens cap included, of course).
Brides need to be educated that cheaper photographers are not necessarily better photographers. And while it's possible for any photography at any price -- high or low -- to be either a genuine winner or a certified stinker -- the odds, at least, are better for her using an established studio that may cost a little bit more up front as opposed to the latest Rebel owner on craigslist.
A couple of years ago, I ran into an old family friend I'd not seen in 20 years. During a visit to his home, we talked about my work and he explained that his daughter had married five years earlier and he really wished he had called me to photograph her wedding. (We actually lived several states apart at the time.) He said that they had been so disappointed with the photos (delivered on CD, naturally) that they never did bother to buy an album, though they really wanted one. He showed them to me on his monstrous-sized TV. Awful. Absolutely terrible. Unintentionally bad posing (brides's shoulders, face and waste square to the camera), no thought of white balance or composition, no sense of timing. You would have thought that out of nearly a thousand images at least a few might accidentally be pretty good. But no!
This was a man who absolutely has the money to pay top dollar for photography, and I cannot imagine that he placed any hard limits on his daughter's budget. (We're talking annual seven-figure income.) His daughter just assumed that all photogs were equal and simply picked the local guy with the best price (less than a thousand dollars).
Actually, I was surprised that the photog was as cheap as he was. Exif info showed that he was using a Canon 1Ds and a 20D body, which were still somewhat current for late 2004. However, he used painfully slow glass, and it was clear he didn't know how to use any of his gear: Outdoor shots taken at 1600 ISO, indoor shots had white balance set to "outdoors", ceremony shots were made with unnecessarily small apertures and agonizingly slow shutter speeds (1/4 second).
I was told that he was no longer in business. Big surprise. He put a copy of the pictures on disc for me to look at more closely, just shaking his head over the wasted money. Wasted indeed. As I've tried to teach new brides as often as possible, bad photography is a poor value at ANY price.
So, what did this bride want? Just some nice photographs and maybe an album. Money was no object, but she still did not understand well enough the pitfalls of hiring cheap. She's have happily paid three times as much if it made the difference in getting what she wanted. This is what the legitimate side of the industry needs to change if we are going to thrive.
I got the impression that the OP is concerned that the brides calling him may be searching for price only, and not considering other issues such as quality. Using your analogy, when they find out that he's the price of a Canon 70-200 IS 2.8 L, they continue to call around until they get something along the lines of a Vivitar 70-200 f6.3 (with deluxe lens cap included, of course).
Brides need to be educated that cheaper photographers are not necessarily better photographers. And while it's possible for any photography at any price -- high or low -- to be either a genuine winner or a certified stinker -- the odds, at least, are better for her using an established studio that may cost a little bit more up front as opposed to the latest Rebel owner on craigslist.
A couple of years ago, I ran into an old family friend I'd not seen in 20 years. During a visit to his home, we talked about my work and he explained that his daughter had married five years earlier and he really wished he had called me to photograph her wedding. (We actually lived several states apart at the time.) He said that they had been so disappointed with the photos (delivered on CD, naturally) that they never did bother to buy an album, though they really wanted one. He showed them to me on his monstrous-sized TV. Awful. Absolutely terrible. Unintentionally bad posing (brides's shoulders, face and waste square to the camera), no thought of white balance or composition, no sense of timing. You would have thought that out of nearly a thousand images at least a few might accidentally be pretty good. But no!
This was a man who absolutely has the money to pay top dollar for photography, and I cannot imagine that he placed any hard limits on his daughter's budget. (We're talking annual seven-figure income.) His daughter just assumed that all photogs were equal and simply picked the local guy with the best price (less than a thousand dollars).
Actually, I was surprised that the photog was as cheap as he was. Exif info showed that he was using a Canon 1Ds and a 20D body, which were still somewhat current for late 2004. However, he used painfully slow glass, and it was clear he didn't know how to use any of his gear: Outdoor shots taken at 1600 ISO, indoor shots had white balance set to "outdoors", ceremony shots were made with unnecessarily small apertures and agonizingly slow shutter speeds (1/4 second).
I was told that he was no longer in business. Big surprise. He put a copy of the pictures on disc for me to look at more closely, just shaking his head over the wasted money. Wasted indeed. As I've tried to teach new brides as often as possible, bad photography is a poor value at ANY price.
So, what did this bride want? Just some nice photographs and maybe an album. Money was no object, but she still did not understand well enough the pitfalls of hiring cheap. She's have happily paid three times as much if it made the difference in getting what she wanted. This is what the legitimate side of the industry needs to change if we are going to thrive.
PenguinPhotoCo
Veteran Member
Coffee table book - hard cover, usually a photo, paper pages, usually press product.
"real" album is one with thick hard pages, usually leather cover.
The design in side is the same either way. The individual print kind of album is dead as you say.
My labor to do either book is the the same, the cost difference is purely in the book itself, $250-350 more than a CTB.
--
Learn the science. Practice the art.
"real" album is one with thick hard pages, usually leather cover.
The design in side is the same either way. The individual print kind of album is dead as you say.
My labor to do either book is the the same, the cost difference is purely in the book itself, $250-350 more than a CTB.
To each their own. I just "love" it (said very very sarcastically) when photographers spout how creative they are when they are not at all creative. Using the same name as 80% of the photogs out there for your packages just makes you a same old same old kinda guy. And it can confuse clients when they're comparing/shopping photogs. Make fun of my names or not - you'll remember me. I'll stand out.
Not around here....they're named after rivers, presidents, mountains, airplanes and pilots at one hotel near the airport (lindbergh rooom, wright room, biplane room, etc)
--
Learn the science. Practice the art.
AcquiredTaste
Veteran Member
Alright, we're on the same page now. I generally don't even think of press books as CTB's. Nonetheless, if that's what you were referring to I agree with your general package ideas.
I don't spout about my creativity, and especially not in areas outside of actual photographs. I'm an it-is-what-it-is kind of guy when it comes to most aspects of business and reinventing the name-wheel doesn't do me any favors. I don't want to be remembered for my package names anyway, I want to be remembered for my images and for who I am.
Wow, another regional difference I guess. We've established this before though, you may live a thousand or so miles away but you might as well be on a different continent much of the time.
Bernard D
Leading Member
I just find that photogs, think people should treat their product differently than other product. Dollar stores works because an amount of people don't see that the $1 screwdriver isn't worth their time and that they won't purchase the $20 one that will last a life time.
What I'm trying to say, is that people don't treat photography any differently than anything else they purchase, don't be offended by it
Anybody in any business will tell you, the first and foremost important thing for most consumer, is the economics that decide on what they'll spend their money, not what they want.
I don't doubt that a photograph that would charge $10,000 for a wedding, with an excellent background and services and products, can't be compared with a $500 that sells a bride something not worth a penny, but there will always be consumers that will go shop at the Dollar store.
But there's no point in getting upset about it.
Bernard
--
I measure my success in life not by my awards, but by the amount of smiles, hugs and kisses I get from my family on a daily basis !
What I'm trying to say, is that people don't treat photography any differently than anything else they purchase, don't be offended by it
Anybody in any business will tell you, the first and foremost important thing for most consumer, is the economics that decide on what they'll spend their money, not what they want.I don't doubt that a photograph that would charge $10,000 for a wedding, with an excellent background and services and products, can't be compared with a $500 that sells a bride something not worth a penny, but there will always be consumers that will go shop at the Dollar store.
But there's no point in getting upset about it.
Bernard
--
I measure my success in life not by my awards, but by the amount of smiles, hugs and kisses I get from my family on a daily basis !
M
Michael Thomas Mitchell
Guest
Bernie
What in the world made you think that I was upset about anything at all?
Just because I don't agree with your comments and found your analogy to be faulty doesn't mean I was upset. Believe it or not, some folks can disagree with a smile on their face.
M
What in the world made you think that I was upset about anything at all?
Just because I don't agree with your comments and found your analogy to be faulty doesn't mean I was upset. Believe it or not, some folks can disagree with a smile on their face.
M
I just find that photogs, think people should treat their product differently than other product. Dollar stores works because an amount of people don't see that the $1 screwdriver isn't worth their time and that they won't purchase the $20 one that will last a life time.
What I'm trying to say, is that people don't treat photography any differently than anything else they purchase, don't be offended by it
I don't doubt that a photograph that would charge $10,000 for a wedding, with an excellent background and services and products, can't be compared with a $500 that sells a bride something not worth a penny, but there will always be consumers that will go shop at the Dollar store.
But there's no point in getting upset about it.
Bernard
--
I measure my success in life not by my awards, but by the amount of smiles, hugs and kisses I get from my family on a daily basis !
Bernard D
Leading Member
Excellent then
I measure my success in life not by my awards, but by the amount of smiles, hugs and kisses I get from my family on a daily basis !
--What in the world made you think that I was upset about anything at all?
Just because I don't agree with your comments and found your analogy to be faulty doesn't mean I was upset. Believe it or not, some folks can disagree with a smile on their face.
M
--I just find that photogs, think people should treat their product differently than other product. Dollar stores works because an amount of people don't see that the $1 screwdriver isn't worth their time and that they won't purchase the $20 one that will last a life time.
What I'm trying to say, is that people don't treat photography any differently than anything else they purchase, don't be offended by it
I don't doubt that a photograph that would charge $10,000 for a wedding, with an excellent background and services and products, can't be compared with a $500 that sells a bride something not worth a penny, but there will always be consumers that will go shop at the Dollar store.
But there's no point in getting upset about it.
Bernard
--
I measure my success in life not by my awards, but by the amount of smiles, hugs and kisses I get from my family on a daily basis !
I measure my success in life not by my awards, but by the amount of smiles, hugs and kisses I get from my family on a daily basis !
Skylane
Leading Member
You don't sit down with them? You don't show them your work? You don't educate them? You don't work them? You don't build a relationship? The reason people use the Web and e-mail is because it is easy, to say no or ignore you. Are lyou an order taker or a Professional Photo Salesman?
Spend some time at your local used car lot with some pro's and learn what it takes to SELL.
--
Charlie
Spend some time at your local used car lot with some pro's and learn what it takes to SELL.
--
Charlie
M
Michael Thomas Mitchell
Guest
I have observed a trend over the past five or so years in which fewer and fewer brides actually want to meet. Even back in 2000, a personal meeting was virtually a given. Between 1999 and 2004, I probably booked one wedding in which I did not personally meet with the bride, and in that particular case the bride lived in Chicago and would be having her wedding in Atlanta, where I work and where she is originally from, making a meeting impractical. During peak booking times, I have had as many as five meetings during a single day.
Over the past five years, about half of my bookings are done by telephone. Yes, this is frustrating, because I don't have the opportunity to really educate a bride. And package sales tend to be smaller. (On the other hand, the costs in both time and dollars are eliminated in those cases, though the offset is, admittedly, not equal.)
With so fewer sales meetings, I end up having to use time during our engagement portrait session to more thoroughly (physically) show them what they've already bought.
Funny thing is that with all the advancements in technology, used by both brides and photographers, from digital cameras to cell phones to the internet, it seems harder than ever for photographers and their potential clients to connect and share. When all a bride had was the yellow pages, she could call them up, set up some meetings, and have a day or two out really getting to know the photographers and what they could do for her. The internet was supposed to serve only as an introduction. It has become a replacement. And I'm convinced that even photographs taken by a monkey can be made to produce a decent enough looking website for unsuspecting clients.
Over the past five years, about half of my bookings are done by telephone. Yes, this is frustrating, because I don't have the opportunity to really educate a bride. And package sales tend to be smaller. (On the other hand, the costs in both time and dollars are eliminated in those cases, though the offset is, admittedly, not equal.)
With so fewer sales meetings, I end up having to use time during our engagement portrait session to more thoroughly (physically) show them what they've already bought.
Funny thing is that with all the advancements in technology, used by both brides and photographers, from digital cameras to cell phones to the internet, it seems harder than ever for photographers and their potential clients to connect and share. When all a bride had was the yellow pages, she could call them up, set up some meetings, and have a day or two out really getting to know the photographers and what they could do for her. The internet was supposed to serve only as an introduction. It has become a replacement. And I'm convinced that even photographs taken by a monkey can be made to produce a decent enough looking website for unsuspecting clients.
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