A77 up on IR Comparometer

Since IR put the A77 up on its comparometer - are these still pre-production images from the A77? Or, is that pretty much what the A77 will look like? Why would they put it up on their comparometer already?

dw73 said:

Since IR put the A77 up on its comparometer - are these still pre-production images from the A77? Or, is that pretty much what the A77 will look like? Why would they put it up on their comparometer already?

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I stopped using this comparometer since yesterday. Too demoralizing. I compared A77 and Nikon D7000 pics at ISO 6800. The plastic lady sitting.
Look at the eyelids margin and the hair coming down on the forefront.
Big loss of detail for the A77.

So we have a cam 2 years old costing $200 less than the A77 doing better (and with a sensor manufactured by Sony) than the supposed state of the art APS-C A77.

Pierre

dw73 said:

Since IR put the A77 up on its comparometer - are these still pre-production images from the A77? Or, is that pretty much what the A77 will look like? Why would they put it up on their comparometer already?

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it clearly says pre-production in comparometer

2 years old? You realize it was released after the A55?

I was just comparing the K5 and A77 model shots at 800 and while the A77 has amazing detail at low ISO I find the K5 as more at 800 but also more noise. However look at the way the A77 is smudging detail in the hair, facial skin texture and also the book and watch are impossible to read although that could be a focus issue. It seem NR is rather severe at 800.

When I do the same comparison at ISO 200 the A77 shows equal noise with far superior detail.

Have you compared the a77 with the Canon 7D? a77 looks better to my eye @1600/3200. Both the multi subject and the green denim manequinn. Sony seems to have problem with Reds in NR program/JPeg processing, but the greens, blacks etc seem ok. Even for pre-production. Think I would be happy considering buying it for my use. My dilemma is choosing between A77 and A65..A65 has 90% of features for less than 70% the price..

Yes clearly better than the 7d at 1600/3200. I am surprised actually but I guess the 18mp sensor is getting old tech wise. The Canon has more noise and less detail which is especially evident in the still life. Pretty much every object reveals that. Sony seems to have slightly more trouble with the red smearing after NR as seen in the rose, and the red swatches and also the red hair of the model but everyone has trouble with red even without NR. Overall much prefer the colour, saturation and WB of the Sony image.

The images at Imaging-Resource were made with Firmware 0.58 (Dpreview used 0.65 and there are also samples from the German magazin Fotomagazin with firmware 1.0). All of those are pre-production firmware and we can hope that image quality will be better in the final version (although V 1.0 seems to look better already).

If you want to see what Sony is capable of, go to the Imaging-Resource Comparometer
http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

and download the NEX-5N files. That tiny camera clearly beats A580 and even the Nikon D7000. That means that the NEX-5N is the APS-C camera with the best IQ on the market (if it would be on the market already).

So I have a little hope that we will be positively surprised about the IQ when the final Verson of A77 will be released.

I compared N5n D7000 and K5
ISO3200 jpg OOC.

N5n is sitting between D7000 and k5.

k5 is best among the three, although the difference between them is not drastic.
and I don't know the way k-5 cooking the raw above ISO3200

Just compared the Canon 7d and A-77 at ISO 1600, I think the Sony has the edge,but with slightly more visable NR, below ISO 400 its a winner in this test.
PS Better than A-900 at iso 100?
--
--
"Pru, it's kicking off!"
I am a Toadie and proud!

Check out this post of mine:
http://forums.dpreview.com/...forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=39208206

Based on file size, I don't think the a77 JPEGs were shot in EXTRA-FINE mode. Which means it's not the highest quality image the a77 is capable of.

I'm guessing that the performance difference is because the NEX-5N is based on the new 16.1MP sensor and not the 24MP sensor in the A77. The new 16.1MP sensor in the NEX-5N is even better than the 16.3MP sensor in the Pentax K-5 and Nikon D-7000. It would appear from the released photos that the A77's sensor falls short.

We keep hearing the argument that the A77 firmware isn't ready for prime time, IQ will get better. If that's the case, why don't we see the same issue with the 5N? It's a brand new sensor and brand new camera as well. Are 5N's pictures going to get a lot better too? Or has the 24MP sensor just not capable of the same IQ that the new 16.1MP sensor is capable of at ISO's above 800? even at ISO 400 the 5N produces a much nicer picture.

And after looking at the NEX-5N's photos, I have to seriously reconsider if I should even upgrade to a newer full size DSLR or buy a NEX-5N. If the A77 photos looked like the 5N photos up to 12,800 I would be waiting in line for it, but unfortunately they don't.

Yes, I did do the comparison with N5N, the little beastie seems quite phenomenal in terms of image quality..easily best in class in my view amongst all the other mirrorless compacts! I understand that the A77 shots so far are all from pre-prod. models. Just hope the images can be corrected with tweaking to the processing engine and is not due to straight hardware limitations of the sensor. I don't expect miracles, but if they could get the high iso performance on the red swatch (only the red swatch) just to the a900/850 standards, it would be good. (Hope Carl is right in his views..think there might be some hope as I too recalled the same experience with a700 and 900 originally..of which I bought both..oops...

ktc1 said:

Yes, I did do the comparison with N5N, the little beastie seems quite phenomenal in terms of image quality..easily best in class in my view amongst all the other mirrorless compacts! I understand that the A77 shots so far are all from pre-prod. models.

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This is what bothers me... the shots from the 5N are from a pre-production model too. Why aren't they lacking in shadow detail at ISO 400 like the A77, why are they so free of noise at ISO 6400 unlike the A77? Did Sony put the third string, washed up people on the A77 project and all the starters on the NEX-5N firmware team? This is possible I suppose... also possible that getting clean pictures out of the A77 is much harder and in time we will see a better showing... or the A77 is near it's IQ limit with the current firmware and we won't see much improvement.

I doubt it..the 7 series is the pride and joy of Sonolta even from the Minolta days. it is the 7 series where they do the revolutionary stuff, so they have their best teams involved there. It comes back to my concern that the limitations are due to the fact that they are pushing the limit of the 24mp sensor and there is not much more they can push even in terms of firmware tweaking. They may have fallen into the marketing trap of needing to have 3 headline features with the 24.3mp max/highest resolution chip at the top of the list.

Now having said all that, for my kind of shooting, ie mostly daylight, taking shots/videos of my daughter at horseriding competitions, rarely printing beyond 13x19, the a77 even as is would fit 100% of my purposes.

I am an old school shooter, from film days in the 70's. I think being able to shoot up to 1600 iso with little noise is already amazing. I started with Minolta in the mid 90's when my girl was born..because they had some great technology, glass and offered best value. Sony gave them the money and the marketing.

I believe with the SLTs Sony are trying to create a new breed of camera, hybrids which try to offer the best of photo and video in a seamless experience. I think what people forget is what the co is trying to do on the video side of this camera. What they offer on the a77 is streets ahead of the competition. Unfortunately, they are so close to perfection with the a77 that I think some of us are disproportionately disappointed with the still mage quality which for us is still the primary purpose of the camera. Yes, it may fall short in high iso area, and yes, we may have a right to demand more, but I hope we can maintain a perspective on these things. No other brand in the market offers so much in a complete package (photo, video, tech features, ergonomics, etc) at the same price point.

Of course we all have choices, if we don't like the camera, we don't buy it. But that does not help Sony or anybody who is loyal to the Sonolta heritage. For me, I will still think carefully, and I will still monitor progress of the still image quality. But the decision will still be in the Sony range, whether it be the a77, a65 or the Nex 5N.

I just can't wait to see what they come up with in the full frame, if it is true they are developing one. Just hope they don't say it is a 40mp beast, or something. 36mp would be more than fine for me. Just need to build a data room and get a few servers to store all those images!!

^i'm halfway there (slowly) upgrading my data center. which reminds me i've gotta do some work on it this weekend another expensive hobby. eventually it'll have an L2 or L3 managed network switch in there too
bye.

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Phil + Northern California | a 8 5 0 + Z + G | http://www.zeissimages.com/alphazeiss

schufosi777 said:

Yes clearly better than the 7d at 1600/3200. I am surprised actually but I guess the 18mp sensor is getting old tech wise. The Canon has more noise and less detail which is especially evident in the still life. Pretty much every object reveals that.

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I agree -- and I'm a Canon 7D owner. No complaints about the 7D -- it's a fine camera with fine lenses -- but I am looking forward to the A77 I've ordered replacing my A55.

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Phil