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Is civility coming back to the Ricoh DPReview forum

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Artists have been known to be ornery at times ;)

If I may speak to Godfrey's Starbucks pictures (not speaking for him), to me they convey the isolation that can exist in public places, even in or perhaps especially in national chains such as Starbucks. Or perhaps that people can be alone together and Starbucks or any coffee shop facilitates that ability. Out in public but inner focused. Or communicating online while not communicating with those around us.

It is his work. The best work is that which we do for ourselves, and remain true to what we see and intend. No one else has to love it or approve of it.

That is the blessing of being an amateur photography - there is no pressure to make anyone else happy with our work. No clients, no buyers or collectors, no expectations. Just us, the camera, and what we see.
 
Andrewteee said:
Andrewteee wrote:

It is his work. The best work is that which we do for ourselves, and remain true to what we see and intend. No one else has to love it or approve of it.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. But if someone doesnt approve or like it does that make him an envious and clueless fool?
Andrewteee said:
That is the blessing of being an amateur photography - there is no pressure to make anyone else happy with our work.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Although I have a feeling that he won't enjoy you calling him an amateur.
 
rondom said:
rondom said:
Andrewteee wrote:

That is the blessing of being an amateur photography - there is no pressure to make anyone else happy with our work.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Although I have a feeling that he won't enjoy you calling him an amateur.
Click to expand...
Olympic athletes are amateur by definition, but that does not prevent them from being very good at what they do!
 
rondom said:
rondom said:
Andrewteee wrote:

It is his work. The best work is that which we do for ourselves, and remain true to what we see and intend. No one else has to love it or approve of it.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. But if someone doesnt approve or like it does that make him an envious and clueless fool?
rondom said:
That is the blessing of being an amateur photography - there is no pressure to make anyone else happy with our work.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Although I have a feeling that he won't enjoy you calling him an amateur.
Click to expand...
And just as I said to Andrew, rondom troll, I don't care what you think of my work or of me. At all. You are still just as clueless and envious.

I consider myself an amateur photographer, so that is a compliment ... thank you Andrewtree, you said it eloquently.

I have been, at several times in my life (including pretty recently) a professional photographer as well, but I'm not doing that gig at the present time. Being a professional photographer is just another job ... a way of making a living. It has little to do with loving Photography, although that helps you deal with the long hours, hard work, and low pay.
--
Godfrey
http://godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
 
You got the boys all riled up again, which I am quite sure was NOT your intention.

Since I have no interest in the M-mode, and not a real photographer, and have more interesting things to do than worry about manners and forum correctness, I went fishing.
GRIN





Rube
http://www.flickr.com/photos/71881102@N00/
 
rube39 said:
You got the boys all riled up again, which I am quite sure was NOT your intention.

Since I have no interest in the M-mode, and not a real photographer, and have more interesting things to do than worry about manners and forum correctness, I went fishing.
GRIN





Rube
http://www.flickr.com/photos/71881102@N00/
Click to expand...
Nice fish Rube, and you are right, I was not fishing..... I know what you are going to eat tonight.
 
rondom said:
rondom said:
Andrewteee wrote:

It is his work. The best work is that which we do for ourselves, and remain true to what we see and intend. No one else has to love it or approve of it.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. But if someone doesnt approve or like it does that make him an envious and clueless fool?
rondom said:
That is the blessing of being an amateur photography - there is no pressure to make anyone else happy with our work.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Although I have a feeling that he won't enjoy you calling him an amateur.
Click to expand...
The word amateur stems from the Latin amat=to love, it means a person
who follows a pastime or sport because they like it.
Of course there is also the derogatory use of the word meaning the opposite

of a professional, but then again not all professionals are excellent by any means.
 
Trafford said:
rondom said:
Trafford said:
Andrewteee wrote:

It is his work. The best work is that which we do for ourselves, and remain true to what we see and intend. No one else has to love it or approve of it.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. But if someone doesnt approve or like it does that make him an envious and clueless fool?
Trafford said:
That is the blessing of being an amateur photography - there is no pressure to make anyone else happy with our work.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Although I have a feeling that he won't enjoy you calling him an amateur.
Click to expand...
The word amateur stems from the Latin amat=to love, it means a person
who follows a pastime or sport because they like it.
Of course there is also the derogatory use of the word meaning the opposite

of a professional, but then again not all professionals are excellent by any means.
Click to expand...
I am one of the most amateur, but sometimes I get lucky, not as much as I would like, but sometimes. The only thing I do professionally is my work that I get paid for, this I am good at, or so many tell me, but soon I will leave it behind me and enjoy retirement at a much lesser rate of pay...but who cares, more time to take pictures once I heal up.
 
Joel Stern said:
I don't know about others but I am a bit tired of the bickering about a module that is not even here yet. One person does not like it for whatever reason, others like the idea...OK, point taken, move on, tired of this nonsense.
Click to expand...
Joel,

Your words are the sweet light of reason.

You can never "prove" something to those that are not listening.

Those that want something other than "making a GXR-M" (apparently anything will do) are determined to prove that buying one is foolish.

Those that are interested in buying an M mount module simply do not care whatever argument proving their idiocy is proffered are not listening and will buy one anyway and wear the consequences of their actions.

However they do make attempts to list the advantages of their actions but the detractors are not listening either and neither do they care. Baiting the "pompous" M mount module guys is just so much fun.

I worked that out a while ago and play along with the game, To try and call a halt will only encourage the baiters ro move in for the kill. In this sort of game the weary ones just give up and lie down in the end.

I worked this out a while ago and secretly confessed to Andrew Pangloss that the M mount module was a stupid, over-priced , useless module only purchased by poseurs wishing to strut around with very expensive Leica lenses simply to amaze people with their so-obvious wealth and good fortune and never to take an image lest their security bubble is pricked. He remains happy with this and I will buy such module just as soon as I can secretly do so. Sssh, ...... oh Andrew, I promise not ever to take an image with it and will quickly hide it whenever I see a real photographer with a real camera in hand.

Once everyone admits that the M mount is useless then Andrew will have to support it to get an argument - grin.

In the real truth of the matter it has set the forum on fire and we have had the first "150 thread" for quite a while - this was why I remarked on it.

Sometimes any chatter is better than no chatter. Everybody join in, that was fun ...

But Joel was right, no need to make it personal and name calling demeans the one who writes it and can only lead to retaliatory escalation ...

--
Tom Caldwell
 
Pangloss said:
I think it is one of the pillars of democracy in developed countries, that people are free to express their opinions. It is also a general politeness to not attack a person with whom one disagrees, on a personal level.

So, I consider that no poster here is entitled to tell me to "go away" or to silence. As for the pejorative term "whiner", if it is being used as an insult, then shame on whomever used it.

I have the courage to express a dissenting opinion, contrary to half a dozen posters most of whom have shown zero pictures taken over the last few months, instead of just nodding like a sheep.
Don't like it? Good! :)
fhorn1 said:
I agree Joel. Maybe all the whiners should pop over to the NEX forum now the NEX-7 has been announced.
Click to expand...
--
Andrew
Panasonic LX3, Ricoh GXR w/ A12 28&50mm user
Click to expand...
Thanks Andrew,

One thing that is obvious is that there is no M mount modules about to take images with and therefore it is hard to post images using it.

Some others, not including myself, do post images with various other Ricoh cameras. Posting images doesn't actually roll out a huge amount of acknowledging posts but they do get some loyal tips of the hat which is gratifying to see as this is a useful part of this forum.

One thing that your interest has ensured is that we are surely goung to get quite a lot of images from various GXR-M combinations just as soon as these are captured. If only by those determined to show that they can use the M mount module well and produce satisfactory results.

Thanks for your efforts in ensuriing that happens, they are appreciated. Or it will be once this fact has sunk in.

--
Tom Caldwell
 
Midwest said:
It's not always a case of people whining or expressing negative views on a module they don't like. I had only minor comments to make, very generic, until I picked up on the fact that I'm one of those lesser camera buyers who thinks that my entry level Canon with kit lenses is a "real camera".

I sometimes play devil's advocate but I am always in favor of keeping things real.
--
Art is far superior to "artsy".
Click to expand...
Midwest

You possibly unintentionally hit the crux of the argument. There are two parts to photography - the image that is captured and the process of capturing it.

Pursuing ever more sophisticated equipment is the objective of capturing the most exciting image with the greatest amount of certainty.

I will admit to have been following that path until just recently.

Going back to manual focus lenses is a form of rejecting the certainty and trying to re-emphasise to process of capture which has become automated almost beyond belief.

Therefore for the first time in quite a while a really "retro" camera unit is being produced. Retro in the sense that it introduces pre-1980's capture technology into the digital camera age.

Therefore the two streams of thought are surely not going to merge. To those who think that the most no-brainer tool to make every image captured a winner are going to think a manual lensed camera rather a little pointless. Those that wish to improve their craft as photographers might be happy to think that the great images that they might have captured are at least partly due to their personally developed skills and to the sweat of their own brow.

It is surely harder to make assured perfect images with an older dslr and a kit lens. I have a Canon 5D and a 50D and even the 50D is a more assuredly "every shot a winner" than the 5D, even though the 5D is a technically better dslr with larger sensor, capture technology moves on. By all accounts the 5D MkII is an image capture no-brainer compared to the original 5D. I am waiting to get a 5DIII which surely will make my the "Complete Photographer", no capture skills, beyond framing, necessary.

So where does this leave the M mount module guys with their old manual lenses? "Challenged?" or "Enjoying the Challenge?".

So we will mess up a few shots. So we will think about it and get some real keepers. But "film" is now cheap and we might get to understand the process of photography more. In the end our basic skills might be the better for it and we can always use these acquired skills on our more sophisticated "no-brainer" gear whenever it suits us. Sometimes meeting the challenge can be interesting in itself and some people surprisingly enough can actually enjoy a hike in the woods as much as others will prefer to be down on the sidewalk cafe sipping a latte.

--
Tom Caldwell
 
Pangloss said:
Godfrey said:
I don't recall you showing any photographs here either, Andrew.

I have posted about 120 of my photos made with the Ricoh GXR here since April, and included about ten links to galleries off this site.

Where are your posted photographs?
--
Godfrey
http://godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
Click to expand...
Hello Godfrey,
How do you do?

Yes, I remember very well some of your shots: the cucumbers, the old ladies and the dog at Starbucks, the tree root, the back door. Actually, every single picture I take these days, I remind myself of the cucumbers shot before I press the shutter.
You have contributed to my photographic education, no doubt.









--
Andrew
Panasonic LX3, Ricoh GXR w/ A12 28&50mm user
Click to expand...
Hey Andrew,

Well caught with humour. Interesting, I like your use of space ...

Must get of my butt and get out and about with my camera. Maybe the M mount will inspire me - grin, ..... well maybe not, still the same boring old windbag carrying the camera.

--
Tom Caldwell
 
Godfrey said:
rondom said:
Godfrey said:
Andrewteee wrote:

It is his work. The best work is that which we do for ourselves, and remain true to what we see and intend. No one else has to love it or approve of it.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. But if someone doesnt approve or like it does that make him an envious and clueless fool?
Godfrey said:
That is the blessing of being an amateur photography - there is no pressure to make anyone else happy with our work.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Although I have a feeling that he won't enjoy you calling him an amateur.
Click to expand...
And just as I said to Andrew, rondom troll, I don't care what you think of my work or of me. At all. You are still just as clueless and envious.

I consider myself an amateur photographer, so that is a compliment ... thank you Andrewtree, you said it eloquently.

I have been, at several times in my life (including pretty recently) a professional photographer as well, but I'm not doing that gig at the present time. Being a professional photographer is just another job ... a way of making a living. It has little to do with loving Photography, although that helps you deal with the long hours, hard work, and low pay.
--
Godfrey
http://godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
Click to expand...
Godfrey,

You are very knowledgeable. A source of much experience in a fairly narrow field. Welcomed for what you have to impart. But just when you are about to become recognised for your depth of knowledge you put your foot in it again ... Smile

--
Tom Caldwell
 
rube39 said:
You got the boys all riled up again, which I am quite sure was NOT your intention.

Since I have no interest in the M-mode, and not a real photographer, and have more interesting things to do than worry about manners and forum correctness, I went fishing.
GRIN





Rube
http://www.flickr.com/photos/71881102@N00/
Click to expand...
Well done Rube, bet the fish were not concerned either ....

--
Tom Caldwell
 
Tom Caldwell said:
Hey Andrew,

Well caught with humour. Interesting, I like your use of space ...
Click to expand...
These two were with the 28mm module, so you do capture a lot of space in the frame. Very nice for some specific compositions, I think.
Tom Caldwell said:
Must get of my butt and get out and about with my camera.
Click to expand...
Exactly what I tell myself in the afternoon these days. And I have a marvellous park for my walks, that helps with the motivation. I just put the camera and modules in my backpack together with a big bottle of water and go out after lunch.
Tom Caldwell said:
Maybe the M mount will inspire me - grin, ..... well maybe not, still the same boring old windbag carrying the camera.
Click to expand...
If it requires an M-mount module and a half dozen Russian lenses, so be it!
--
Andrew
Panasonic LX3, Ricoh GXR w/ A12 28&50mm user
 
Joel Stern said:
Indeed, and I have an issue with the attack on Cristian who does not contribute as much as I would like here and I would hate to see him not come here although I highly doubt that. He is an invaluable source of information for us.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your kind words Joel!

I don't mind arguing and don't take things personally so my back and forth with Andrew was in some ways entertaining.

--
http://ricoh-gr-diary.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cristiansorega/
http://jpgmag.com/people/Cristian
 
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