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A77 - Why is Sony holding back on basic features :-( ?

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One advantage of P shift that was stated on the forum before is that it selects A and S based on the scene and gives you a good starting point, so you might not have to adjust it as much from there. If you were in A mode, you might have to move from one end to the other, so it takes longer. Seems to make sense.
 
If your camera has it, you can override the camera´s programed exposure via the control wheels to shift the shutter/aperture combination in either direction. So if you suddenly need a faster shutterspeed, you only move your index finger a little foreward and twist the wheel. Or if you have two wheels like on the A900, alternatetively with your thumb. You don´t have to take your eye off the viewfinder and your finger is back on the firing button in no time.
 
futile32 said:
thanks for the info Richard.

But can I ask everyone what Program Shift is?

I assumed that Program mode sets both the aperture and shutter speed, so which is it you adjust and wouldn't that just be called (A or S mode?)
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Here's how Gary Friedman defines Program mode it in his A700 book:

"In Program mode, the camera decides what combination of shutter speed and f/stop

to use based upon the ambient light, the currently set ISO sensitivity, and what the lens is zoomed to. The only difference between Program and the AUTO mode is that Program mode remembers settings that you have changed, whereas AUTO mode does not."

Program Shift normally refers to changing either the Aperture or the Shutter dial while in Program Mode. So the camera sets an initial value, then you override it with a shutter or aperture change. Both dials are active, with one controlling shutter and one controlling aperture. So if you want to change the Shutter speed you go ahead and change the shutter speed directly, and not indirectly like in Aperture mode. And if you want to vary the Aperture, you vary it directly and not by varying the shutter like in S mode.

So you can 'shift' program mode to use a faster shutter while still having the camera otherwise automatically control the exposures. The camera is still deciding what parameters to apply to the scene, you've just 'shifted' the balance more towards a faster shutter.

Since it's a form of automatic control some people feel it should not be used.

I've always thought that A priority and S priority are also automatic modes that allow you to only vary either A or S... Program mode allows you to vary both.

All three are really automatic modes.

HTH.

I do have a question to the guys though:

If it is OK to use A or S mode, what is your reasoning behind the claim that it is NOT OK to use P mode?

I'm really curious.

Russ
 
tbcass said:
...snip... I consider program shift useless and a more entry level feature. I use P, A priority, S priority and M modes.
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Tom, I'm really curious. You use P mode, but never find you want to shift what the camera has chosen towards a faster shutter or a wider aperture?

So if, for instance, P mode chose a 1/10 shutter for a moving child and you wanted to freeze his motion what would you do? Switch to A mode or S mode and THEN dial in the shutter indirectly/directly to what you want?

You really think it's useless to be able to just directly dial in a faster shutter?

Are you sure you know what Program Shift is?

What's not to like?

I'm confused...
 
Great explanation. I like to set the front dial for exposure compensation and the rear for shift.
--
Dave
 
R Butler said:
...that the A77 doesn't have Program Shift of DMF?

I have an A65 and A77 in front of me here - both have Program Shift.

Richard - dpreview.com
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Thank you Richard for your response. Program shift has been a mainstay in all the Minolta cameras and the more recent Sony A100 and A700. It is a good feature, and I am glad to hear that it is present in the A77.
--
  • May the good light always be with you! - Karl: A77 - (8/10-20/18-250/50-500mm)
 
R Butler said:
...that the A77 doesn't have Program Shift of DMF?

I have an A65 and A77 in front of me here - both have Program Shift.

Richard - dpreview.com
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Yay, thanks Richard. I've really missed not having program shift in the a33. But what is DMF?
 
I'm waiting for the A9xx, as I want a FF camera. If Sony decides to come out with an A9x, but it has the OLED VF of the A77, or better, then I would seriously consider it.

However, I wish Sony would come out with the A1000, a camera with an integrated VG.
 
Lineypi said:
R Butler said:
...that the A77 doesn't have Program Shift of DMF?

I have an A65 and A77 in front of me here - both have Program Shift.

Richard - dpreview.com
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Yay, thanks Richard. I've really missed not having program shift in the a33. But what is DMF?
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Both the KM 7D and the A700 (I don't know about other models) have three focus positions Single, Continuous and Auto. There is a menu option to change the Auto to DMF (Direct Manual Focus). In DMF mode the camera does auto focus then when focus is locked goes to manual mode so you can tweak the focus manually. A very nice feature that I can't use because my Sigmas and Tamrons have their own switch on the lens.
--
Sarge

Alpha 700 8mm Bower, 50mm 1.7, 35-70 F4, 90mm Tamron, 18-250 Sigma & 50-500 Bigma
Fisheye photos at http://sony-snapper.com/Playing%20Around/Fisheye/index.html
New toy - Asus Transformer Android 3.2 tablet
Albums at http://www.sony-snapper.com
 
Lineypi said:
Yay, thanks Richard. I've really missed not having program shift in the a33. But what is DMF?
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DMF -> (Direct Manual Focus)
--
SONY a350 DSLR-A350
SONY Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* DT 16-80mm F3.5-4.5 SAL-1680CZ
SONY 70-300mm F4.5-5.6 G SSM SAL-70300G
Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC
Sigma 8-16mm F4.5-5.6 DC HSM
Sony HVL-58AM GN 58 External Flash
Sony HVLF42AM GN 42 External Flash
B+W 62MM CLEAR UV HAZE MRC (010M)
 
LOL!

The A65 and A77 both have DMF and program shift.

Talk about an unnecessary thread!
 
Jens_G said:
LOL!

The A65 and A77 both have DMF and program shift.

Talk about an unnecessary thread!
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No not so...The availability or not of PS has stopped me buying several of the latter Sony SLR camera's!! I had it on the R1 and waited for the R2 which never eventuated so opted out for the A55 which though lacking PS did have a good electronic viewfinder though lacked a complete EVF camera function displays as the R1 had...It seems that according to Richard who has both the newbee camera's in front of him that PS is there as a dial to turn!! If it is not there I would consider seriously whether to upgrade! it is that important to my photography style as others have also remarked, a quick intuitive way to grab the moment with the quick shift of a dial!! Also the complete function rage of the camera in evf, speed and apature...I do not use the rear screen to compose photo's, I use it to show people shots I may have taken but do preview most of my immediate shots on evf.
HDR shot Nhulunbuy Nt with A55



 
dlkeller said:
Just because you don't use it doesn't mean it is useless or a beginners feature. Maybe it is your ignorance that stands in the way of you using this extremely useful feature.

Something you and some others just don't seem to understand is that different people have different styles and just because someone or some feature doesn't meet your needs doesn't mean it is not a valuable tool for many others. If you dojn't like a feature or don't use it than fine, but don't encourage Sony to take it away from others who do like and use it.
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Actually I know perfectly well what program shift can do and it is not something I would ever use. I have had cameras with it and didn't use it. Yes different people have different needs and people who say that the lack of a feature like PS make a camera unacceptable don't understand that different people have different needs as well. They are merely using the forum to cry and grandstand about something they are unhappy about. Is there a perfect camera? No and every camera made could have someone bitching about some feature that is either missing or doesn't work the way they want it.
--
Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/
 
I find all this hand-wringing over program shift, aperture and shutter priority highly amusing.

They all do exactly the same thing as each other. No matter which of these three modes you are in, the aperture and shutter speed will change with the turn of a dial - together (as you meter).

Equivalent exposures dictate this.

The only real difference between the modes is whether you want the camera to default to it's own combination (program), whether you want to begin with a set aperture (aperture priority) or a certain shutter speed (shutter priority).

But at the end of the day when you're looking through the VF and turning the dial, program shift, aperture and shutter priority have the same essential operation - both values will change.
 
That's a problem that could be overcome by more processing speed. Maybe the A77 will be better in this regard. A multicore processor would certainly be of benefit. Getting the most out of an EVF takes a lot more processing power for sure.
--
Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/
 
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