500f4

Remember when the 500f4 was going to be announced with the 77; I guess sony was not able to produce it.

Not even a mention of it, as noticed before... A pity really, I'm sure some would' t mind the likely cost of it. Even I would love it, right after winning some major lottery prize!

Yeah, the Sony UK guy who did the live feed for peoples questions said that it should be announced early next year..delay due to the japan earthquake
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SONY!!!!!!

bobby335i said:

Yeah, the Sony UK guy who did the live feed for peoples questions said that it should be announced early next year..delay due to the japan earthquake
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Maybe the latest delay is due to the earthquake, but Sony has been promising this lens for over 4 years now, and has been showing different mockups for just as long, or longer. The fact remains that Sony has done about one higher end lens per year for the past several years, and this year it seems it's the 16-50/2.8. While that lens is welcome, and also long overdue, Sony seems stuck on slow mode when it comes to lens production.

One of the bigger problems with the NEX system has been a lack of good quality lenses, in addition to the relatively small number of lenses. While obviously there are now a few more lenses coming, whether or not the are better than the mediocre performance of the first group of lenses remains to be seen (presumably the CZ 24/1.8 and 50/1.8 will be of good quality).

Ultimately, Sony still does not seem to understand the importance of lenses to the attractiveness of its system cameras. Or, if it does realize it, it has very limited lens production capabilities, at least compared to Canon and Nikon, who have brought out more new and upgraded lenses over the past few years compared to Sony. For a company still struggling to make strong in-roads into the market, that's not a good performance, and perhaps it's one reason why Sony has not done better in the market.

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Mark Van Bergh
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I was wondering the same thing about the 500. Sony showed a prototype years ago, and still no announcement of it being available.

steelhead3 said:

Remember when the 500f4 was going to be announced with the 77; I guess sony was not able to produce it.

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I was watching that live Q&A with the UK rep today and the question was asked. He said that due to the manufacturing problems that arose after the natural disaster in Japan, they had to prioritize lens production in order to meet anticipated demand with the release of new cameras this fall.

He pointed to an early 2012 release for the 500 f/4.

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with the 9 series stuff next year. Maybe? - speculation alert- speculation alert-

Paul Genge gave a reasonable explanation why it hasn't seen the light of day yet- basically, tsunami.

Carl
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"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude; nothing can help the man with wrong one."
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cgarrard said:

with the 9 series stuff next year. Maybe? - speculation alert- speculation alert-

Paul Genge gave a reasonable explanation why it hasn't seen the light of day yet- basically, tsunami.

Carl

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But, the lens was first show something like 5 years ago.

... besides the tsunami I think the sales of the higher end model were disappointing for them and probably they were not in hurry to produce a lens that very few people would want. Maybe now the SLT cameras are on a roll and with the A99 in hindsight they might take it up again.

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http://frenske.zenfolio.com

Frenske said:

... besides the tsunami I think the sales of the higher end model were disappointing for them and probably they were not in hurry to produce a lens that very few people would want. Maybe now the SLT cameras are on a roll and with the A99 in hindsight they might take it up again.

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In some respects this is a bit of a "chicken and egg" situation. Higher end buyers (photographers) don't just look at the camera but also the system support for the camera, and particularly the lenses available. Anyone who is interested in, for example, wildlife or sports photography will almost automatically not consider Sony right now because it does not have the lenses that such photographers want or aspire to owning one day. And let's be clear, it is not just pros that buy high-end big telephoto lenses, but lots of serious amateur photographers. I have Nikon shooting friends, amateurs, who have the 200-400/4, 400/2.8, 500/4 and 600/4. Some of them have more than one. Same goes for Canon shooting friends.

Sony continues to exclude itself from consideration by any of these photographers. The 70-400 G SSM lens, while very good for what it is, is not a substitute for high-speed telephoto lenses such as the ones noted above. Because I had Minolta 300/2.8 and 600/4 lenses before Sony ever took over the Alpha system I was able to stick with it (though that may have come to an end as the A77 may not be for me). There is the option of Sigma's 500/4.5, but that's about it for high-end long lenses for the Alpha system (and in my experience most photographers considering such a lens prefer to go with the manufacturer's lenses rather than Sigma based on how few Sigmas I have seen in the field compared to Canon and Nikon lenses).

Sony offers cameras that have some potential attraction to serious wildlife and maybe even now sports shooters, but it continues to lack the lenses to make the sale. I also would note that such photographers tend to have a higher public profile than many others given that they are seen in photographic hotspots (e.g., national parks, zoos) or in notable public areas (sports sidelines). That's a marketing benefit for Canon and Nikon on which Sony continues to miss out.

I do understand how the earthquake and tsunami in Japan have forced many companies to alter product plans and priorities. But, that doesn't explain the decisions and actions (or lack thereof) for the many years before the earthquake hit. Sony's strategy thus far has not led it to accomplish the market share levels it originally predicted (e.g., foolishly predicting it would become #2 many years ago). Perhaps Sony should re-evaluate a strategy that has not worked so well and more closely examine why its competitors are more successful.

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Mark Van Bergh
http://www.markvanbergh.com

IMO Birds evolved from dinosaurs who laid eggs so the egg came before the chicken. Now I am not sure which the 500mm f4 is, the chicken or the egg?

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http://frenske.zenfolio.com

Mark,

I gave you a lot of guff about your complaints regarding the lateness of this lens. I figured that Sony wanted to announce availability with the Alpha 77 and make a splash.

Well, the Alpha 77 was announced. Where is the 500/4?

Come on Sony, this is just lame. Just announce that production was delayed due to the quake, or announce that you have decided the 500/4 won't make enough money and you have decided not to produce it. But this abuse of your high-end users is unacceptable.

So they explained why they didn't release it with the Alpha 77. The tsunami.

But pretty dumb of them not to release it a couple years ago.

@Frenske - Chickens = Dinosaurs then?!?? I'll have the Teriyaki Brontosaurus please... KFV, Kentucky Fried Veloceraptor...?
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-Alex

From the minds of Minolta to the imagination of Sony, Alpha, like no other.

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MCromer said:

Mark,

I gave you a lot of guff about your complaints regarding the lateness of this lens. I figured that Sony wanted to announce availability with the Alpha 77 and make a splash.

Well, the Alpha 77 was announced. Where is the 500/4?

Come on Sony, this is just lame. Just announce that production was delayed due to the quake, or announce that you have decided the 500/4 won't make enough money and you have decided not to produce it. But this abuse of your high-end users is unacceptable.

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Thanks. Given that the A77 has been announced a couple of months before it's supposed to arrive in stores, who know how much later the 500/4 will be even assuming Sony announces it. Eventually.

I still don't think Sony understands the importance of having the right lenses available for its system cameras. Not just for Alpha but also NEX, despite the recent announcement of a few more lenses. Sony boasts about how small the NEX camera is, but who cares when the lenses are much larger and arguably defeat the purpose of having such a small camera. Also, the consensus of everything I've read thus far is that the NEX lenses now available are, at best, mediocre. One has to assume that the CZ24/1.8 and the new 50/1.8 will be better, but where are the smaller, pancake type lenses to go with a small camera?

Admittedly Sony's lens manufacturing capacity is now divided between the NEX and Alpha systems, but even with that it's introduction of new lenses seems painfully slow. Pop Photo gave the NEX3C a middling review, party due to the still lousy user interface (though not as bad as the NEX3) but also the relative dearth of lenses compared to micro 4/3s. While I don't have much interest in the NEX system, there is not a single lens in the system, including the new ones, that would provide any incentive to explore the system further. Of course that's just me, and there are others who feel differently (particularly those who have bought in). But if Sony wants to attract higher end photographers, as one assumes it does with the NEX 7, it needs to have lenses that such photographers will want to use with the camera.

It's been the same problem with the Alpha system, which lack certain lenses that might open new potential markets for the system where Sony is not a serious possibility among the vast majority of photographers (e.g., nature/wildlife).

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Mark Van Bergh
http://www.markvanbergh.com

I cannot afford it anyway.. hehehe

Neither, I suspect, can most of those moaning about its delay.
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What I wouldn't give to see in a sports event a ugly silver lens in amongst a sea of white.

Based on the cost of other OEM lenses of that type, I think that Sony doesn't believe it would be able to sell enough to its current market. While it would be a prestige lens (for Sony), I'm not sure they are willing to take the hit of producing it and not selling enough. The tsunami is a rational reason to hold off until they see if their customers are willing to pay for the more expensive products (A77 and NEX 7) or if they only want high featured bargain products. They'd probably like to wait and see how the A900 replacement sells.

tom

tom said:

Based on the cost of other OEM lenses of that type, I think that Sony doesn't believe it would be able to sell enough to its current market. While it would be a prestige lens (for Sony), I'm not sure they are willing to take the hit of producing it and not selling enough. The tsunami is a rational reason to hold off until they see if their customers are willing to pay for the more expensive products (A77 and NEX 7) or if they only want high featured bargain products. They'd probably like to wait and see how the A900 replacement sells.

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One problem with this theory is that it fails to consider the impact the lack of certain lenses has on sales of the camera. For example, anyone interested in serious wildlife photography, or sports, will not even consider a Sony camera because the lenses needed are not there. When you exclude a whole segment of consumers from even considering your system it will have a negative impact on sales. Not just because those people don't buy in but because when asked for advice (i.e., word of mouth advertising) they will refer someone to anything but Sony. There also is the more subtle effect of people rarely if ever seeing a Sony camera used by a pro or "more serious" photographer.

As I suggested earlier, there is a bit of a chicken and egg situation. Do you need the higher end, more esoteric lenses to attract photographers to the system, or do you wait until you have more higher end, more esoteric photographers before coming out with such lenses? My view is you will never (or rarely) get such photographers if the lenses are not there. Why is it that in the camera club I belong to, and in the ones I speak to, there are so few (if any) other people shooting Sony? The A700/850/900 certainly are capable cameras. Just in my area there are many different camera clubs with easily a couple of thousand members. These also are people who buy accessories - lenses, flashes, etc. Why do few if any of these people shoot Sony?

Sony has made some very dubious decisions with respect to the Alpha system since its rollout. Those made early on I think were largely tied to its inexperience in the market. Now? It seems Sony has decided it will not compete within certain segments of the market, and particularly higher end photographers. For example, in his preview of the A77, Michael Reichmann (Luminous Landscape website) notes that while the EVF in the A77 is much improved, and better than the small penta-mirror viewfiinders in consumer/entry level cameras, it still is not up to the viewing performance level of a good pentaprism viewfinder, particularly with respect to the lack of dynamic range (but in other ways as well). He speculates that the camera will not appeal to photographers for whom the viewfinder quality is an important consideration and are unwilling to sacrifice that quality for the other benefits an EVF provides. If he is right, Sony's decision to go with the SLT technology has cut it off from certain segments of the market (and based on Reichmann's comments, that may include me).

You don't see Canon and Nikon, who I assume Sony sees as its primary competitors, electing to not compete effectively for certain segments of the DSLR market. It's a small enough overall market (compared, for example, to the market for P&S cameras), that if you don't compete within certain segments you necessarily limit your potential market share, or market share gains. Yet this seems to be Sony's strategy. Perhaps it is happy with a 12-15% market share, perhaps hoping it can get up to maybe 20% at some point. Who knows? But, if Sony continues to drive higher end photographers away from the system, and not do much to attract new higher end photographers (such as people starting to get interested in photography or young people just starting out on a pro career or hoping to start a pro career), it will necessarily limit its potential market share.

All this from having no 500/4, or its being delayed until some time next year? No, of course not. But it is symbolic and symptomatic of a bigger problem that Sony has not yet seemed to understand or address directly, or doesn't care about.

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Mark Van Bergh
http://www.markvanbergh.com