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SD15 color issues

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Musiclady

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Well, I have finally been able to put my new Sigma SD15 through some paces. I first used Lightroom for conversion and adjustment. I didn't like the results very much, so I went to Sigma's Photo Pro. I still don't like the results. Skin color varies all over the place as do some colors in nature. I also can see a magenta cast in higher ISO photographs as well quite a few harsh signs of interpolation (at least I think that's what it is) when I increase the size of the image.

I know that you probably want me to show you some pics, but they're of my family and I don't display images of people, family or otherwise, on the web, simple as that.

Right now, based on what I've already photographed and processed, I'm not sure the Sigma camera is for me. I'm used to shooting with a Canon 5D and a Fuji S5 Pro. Those two cameras are a dream come true compared to what I'm getting out of the Sigma. I must be doing something wrong.
  • Musiclady
 
I can give you a few hints to get things 'easier' (although the Fuji is supposedly great for skin tones).

1a. Avoid anything other than SPP for now.

1. Shoot Neutral mode (and leave SPP in Neutral). Don't use the Portrait color mode unless you want to pinkify everything.

2. Go for Auto WB. You can always change in SPP, but I find that auto has been doing pretty well for the SD15 in most lighting circumstances.

3. Shoot as low ISO as possible. I like to vary between ISO 100 and ISO 100, unless it's absolutely necessary to bump up. I won't do color over 400 in most cases. B/W can be fun right up to the top range.

4. Learn to use the color wheel and eyedropper to balance out the color.

5. Don't use Fill Light any more than +0.4 (and typically less). You can use negative Fill Light (-0.1 to -1.0) for some portraits (brighter face, darker background).

This may help you get close to what you're looking for. However, if you really like your Canon and Fuji, I'm a little confused as to why you'd pick up another entirely different system. The Sigma might be a great companion camera for landscape. Although I've not shot the Fuji, internet legend has it that it's outstanding for portraiture.

--
Jim
 
Export tiff files from SPP and work on the colors and corrections in Lightroom. For most things exporting them with auto settings works well. For HDR work I export them based on X3F data from the camera. Remember that mixed lighting will always be a bit of a problem with the Foveon chip since it is very sensitive to color temperature.

The results I am getting from my SD15 are very good.
 
Without looking at some sample RAW files there isn't much I can say to help you. What your describing with the magenta caste (splotchiness) is underexposure at point of capture and then "pushing" the image to the point the noise becomes more apparent. Proper exposure is required for accurate tones. The higher the iso the more critical your exposure becomes. The Foveon imager behaves like film and like film it needs proper exposure.

I've found my SD15 to have excellent color suitable for skin tones and in general like the color very much. The first five shots above were done with the SD15 and all were processed in LR. The 1st one is a composite done in CS5.

The 1st image is a photo I did for a couple and will be printed to 13x19. If you pixel peep it you'll find some magenta blotches especially in the deep shadow areas however when printed the colors will be correct.

JLK has made some good points and likewise I'm somewhat perplexed as to why you would switch from a 5D or an S5.

Anyway I hope we've helped.
Wally
--



http://www.pbase.com/wally_newell

Wally
 
Thank you for your comments. My images are not underexposed, I assure you. The magenta coloring is just a cast, not splotchiness.

I also didn't "switch" from the Canon and Fuji to the SD15. I still have and use the other cameras. I bought the SD15 because of all the great things I've read and heard about the Foveon sensor.

I started with film photography many years ago and had heard over and over again how the Foveon sensor creates an image like a film image, so I wanted to give it a try.
  • Musiclady
WHNewell said:
Without looking at some sample RAW files there isn't much I can say to help you. What your describing with the magenta caste (splotchiness) is underexposure at point of capture and then "pushing" the image to the point the noise becomes more apparent. Proper exposure is required for accurate tones. The higher the iso the more critical your exposure becomes. The Foveon imager behaves like film and like film it needs proper exposure.

I've found my SD15 to have excellent color suitable for skin tones and in general like the color very much. The first five shots above were done with the SD15 and all were processed in LR. The 1st one is a composite done in CS5.

The 1st image is a photo I did for a couple and will be printed to 13x19. If you pixel peep it you'll find some magenta blotches especially in the deep shadow areas however when printed the colors will be correct.

JLK has made some good points and likewise I'm somewhat perplexed as to why you would switch from a 5D or an S5.

Anyway I hope we've helped.
Wally
--



http://www.pbase.com/wally_newell

Wally
Click to expand...
 
Try posting some raws if possible, and/or following that neutral-mode workflow mentioned above.

SD15 will be best ISO50-400.
 
I've found that I can pretty much just "snap away" with my Canon 30D and get usable results.

With my SD15 I have to tweak far more, usually every shot. Also, I don't use in-camera JPGs, shooting only Raw. Cinefeel's recommendation to keep ISO range between 50 and 400 for color work is a good one. I try to stay with ISO 100 outdoors and ISO 400 indoors (no higher).

Also, after almost a year using my SD15 I found out that it is indeed better if I shoot in Neutral color mode, mostly because the exposure is more consistently correct. It might not look as good on the camera's display but I think the images are easier to process in SPP.

Something also to mention about the camera's display: it's bright but not really clear and accurate. It seems to accent the badness of images taken at high ISO. Unfortunately, no way to reduce the brightness either. This is somewhat "fixed up" in the firmware update.

If you have not loaded the update, it is worth the trouble:
http://sigma-photo.co.jp/english/support/soft/sd15_101.htm
--
Tom Schum
 
It sounds to me as if something might be wrong with your SD15. Sure you have heard of the obvious problems that Sigma seems to have with quality control; so maybe you should just have your camera checked by Sigma.

I have an SD15 as well as a Fuji S5. I love the S5 (fantastic portrait camera!), and I do have complaints about the SD15, like an unreliable AF. But I've never had any problems like the ones you're describing. I use SPP4.2 which I prefer over Lightroom. With manual focus I'm getting super sharp pics with great colors (as you can see here in case you're interested: https://picasaweb.google.com/103524486027227372123/SD15Samples# )

PS: Well, maybe there IS one thing: I don't use anything but "Neutral" colors. Especially the "Portrait" setting gave me some VERY weird results. -
Musiclady said:
Well, I have finally been able to put my new Sigma SD15 through some paces. I first used Lightroom for conversion and adjustment. I didn't like the results very much, so I went to Sigma's Photo Pro. I still don't like the results. Skin color varies all over the place as do some colors in nature. I also can see a magenta cast in higher ISO photographs as well quite a few harsh signs of interpolation (at least I think that's what it is) when I increase the size of the image.

I know that you probably want me to show you some pics, but they're of my family and I don't display images of people, family or otherwise, on the web, simple as that.

Right now, based on what I've already photographed and processed, I'm not sure the Sigma camera is for me. I'm used to shooting with a Canon 5D and a Fuji S5 Pro. Those two cameras are a dream come true compared to what I'm getting out of the Sigma. I must be doing something wrong.
  • Musiclady
Click to expand...
 
Fair enough, if settings are as you say then perhaps their is a true manufacturing issue with this particular body and it should be returned to dealer or Sigma for repair and/or replacement.

Before you do make certain you're on the neutral color setting incamera as others have suggested. And test the camera with a color chart in daylight with AWB to see the result. I've not seen mention of magenta caste on this forum with SD15 bodies and wonder if it's an envionmental issue.
--



http://www.pbase.com/wally_newell

Wally
 
Well, I certainly do not have the SD15, I still have the SD10, which has a very good color balance, but... What you might be experiencing is that the Foveon images do look different. Which is sort of what you want. Otherwise why bother?

The Foveon sensors tend to be very sensitive to the color of the light, and as noted in one of the recent tests, they pick up colors that Bayer cameras may miss. I have always thought they did well with skin tones.

Your camera could have an issue, of course.

Richard

--
My small gallery: http://www.pbase.com/richard44/inbox
 
I appreciate all of the responses and suggestions. FWIW: I did shoot in Neutral to begin with and mostly at low ISO, all raw of course.

My impression of the camera so far is that it does take quite a bit of work to adjust the files properly and/or to match the file with the scene or to one's taste.

Yes, the Foveon sensor is extremely color sensitive, although I'm not sure this is a positive quality. It may a bit overly sensitive, even to the color of stray light coming from outside the shooting frame. It is also definitely not a high ISO camera. I've decided that anything above ISO 400 shows substantial enough noise & overall degradation to render the shot unusable. Some might disagree with this.

Bottom line for me: the output of the SD15 does not in any way shape or form resemble the output of the more traditional Canon, Nikon, Olympus, etc. cameras, nor does it provide an easy ride to the final image. But, again, I'm not sure that the uniqueness of both the camera and its images is a positive thing. There is something to be said for a camera that makes the process easier and that produces a raw file that, without any adjustment, comes close to looking like what was photographed. The Sigma raw files do not like what was shot. It takes work to get there.

I have not at all decided anything about whether or not this is a good camera for me, nor do I intend to compare it to my Canon or Fuji. The SD15, I think, has to be used for what it is and what it can do on its own, as opposed to whether or not it does things as well or better or worse than other cameras. That much I've decided so far.

Thanks again,
musiclady
 
Musiclady said:
I appreciate all of the responses and suggestions. FWIW: I did shoot in Neutral to begin with and mostly at low ISO, all raw of course.

My impression of the camera so far is that it does take quite a bit of work to adjust the files properly and/or to match the file with the scene or to one's taste.

Yes, the Foveon sensor is extremely color sensitive, although I'm not sure this is a positive quality. It may a bit overly sensitive, even to the color of stray light coming from outside the shooting frame. It is also definitely not a high ISO camera. I've decided that anything above ISO 400 shows substantial enough noise & overall degradation to render the shot unusable. Some might disagree with this.

Bottom line for me: the output of the SD15 does not in any way shape or form resemble the output of the more traditional Canon, Nikon, Olympus, etc. cameras, nor does it provide an easy ride to the final image. But, again, I'm not sure that the uniqueness of both the camera and its images is a positive thing. There is something to be said for a camera that makes the process easier and that produces a raw file that, without any adjustment, comes close to looking like what was photographed. The Sigma raw files do not like what was shot. It takes work to get there.

I have not at all decided anything about whether or not this is a good camera for me, nor do I intend to compare it to my Canon or Fuji. The SD15, I think, has to be used for what it is and what it can do on its own, as opposed to whether or not it does things as well or better or worse than other cameras. That much I've decided so far.

Thanks again,
musiclady
Click to expand...
I am puzzled that you're having such difficulties with the SD15. I've been shooting with one for quite some time now and I've found it to be very accurate color wise and needing little, if any, post processing or color adjustments. Your observations on ISO is fairly close to what I've seen. In my case I'll go up to 800 which is usable with some work (which can be easily duplicated for a whole set taken with similar lighting)
--
--Britton
http://photo.brittonrobbins.com/
 
Well ... I'm puzzled, too, although I've read of other people having to spend time adjusting Sigma/Foveon color.
  • musiclady
brittonx said:
Musiclady said:
I appreciate all of the responses and suggestions. FWIW: I did shoot in Neutral to begin with and mostly at low ISO, all raw of course.

My impression of the camera so far is that it does take quite a bit of work to adjust the files properly and/or to match the file with the scene or to one's taste.

Yes, the Foveon sensor is extremely color sensitive, although I'm not sure this is a positive quality. It may a bit overly sensitive, even to the color of stray light coming from outside the shooting frame. It is also definitely not a high ISO camera. I've decided that anything above ISO 400 shows substantial enough noise & overall degradation to render the shot unusable. Some might disagree with this.

Bottom line for me: the output of the SD15 does not in any way shape or form resemble the output of the more traditional Canon, Nikon, Olympus, etc. cameras, nor does it provide an easy ride to the final image. But, again, I'm not sure that the uniqueness of both the camera and its images is a positive thing. There is something to be said for a camera that makes the process easier and that produces a raw file that, without any adjustment, comes close to looking like what was photographed. The Sigma raw files do not like what was shot. It takes work to get there.

I have not at all decided anything about whether or not this is a good camera for me, nor do I intend to compare it to my Canon or Fuji. The SD15, I think, has to be used for what it is and what it can do on its own, as opposed to whether or not it does things as well or better or worse than other cameras. That much I've decided so far.

Thanks again,
musiclady
Click to expand...
I am puzzled that you're having such difficulties with the SD15. I've been shooting with one for quite some time now and I've found it to be very accurate color wise and needing little, if any, post processing or color adjustments. Your observations on ISO is fairly close to what I've seen. In my case I'll go up to 800 which is usable with some work (which can be easily duplicated for a whole set taken with similar lighting)
--
--Britton
http://photo.brittonrobbins.com/
Click to expand...
 
I use an SD15, and I've noticed that two shots I've taken within a second of each other have quite different color. I was using an old M42 lens at two different apertures, could this change the color? I don't see how, but maybe the extra light coming in is making a difference.

I find the SD not as predictable as some other cameras, but not so much that it bothers me. I also find the quality much better than say my NEX, the NEX results are positively soft.

The Sigmas need care to get a great image out sometimes, but the end result is usually worth it. I don't use any other camera since I got the SD15.

MT
 
Hello. I am like you and am finding the colors all wrong. They are not that much wrong most time but they are still wrong.

I am using SD15 and even each lens gives different color.

Foveon is good idea but is still experimental a little bit. Maybe one day they are getting it right.
 
Anyone that thinks the SD15 isn't a great camera...hasn't lived with a SD14 for a year.

I have no complaints with my SD15 at all.

I don't think making a quick white balance adjustment now and then should be considered work .
 
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